Ali Wenzke, THE ART OF HAPPY MOVING
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[1:24]So get excited. The first day is advice Monday. So it's assorted advice all day for this
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[1:43]I interviewed Ali Wensky at the beginning of the pandemic. And I'm not sure how this happened,
[1:48]but I'm only releasing this episode now. So I'm sorry, Ali. I don't know how this happened.
[1:53]But anyway, Ali is the author of the art of happy moving, how to declutter, pack,
[1:58]and start over while maintaining your sanity and finding happiness. PS, this is the best book ever.
[2:03]If anyone you know is moving, which of course people do all the time. She, what can I tell you
[2:08]about Ali? She moved 10 times in 11 years. She's lived in seven US states and started a blog to
[2:15]provide practical tips on how to build the happier life before during and after the move. She's
[2:19]currently settled in Chicago suburbs with her husband and three children. Welcome, Ali. Thanks so
[2:25]much for coming on mom's time to read books. Thank you so much for having me, Zibi. I love your
[2:28]podcast. So I'm so excited to get to chat with you. And thank you so much for having me.
[2:33]Oh, it's my pleasure. I was just about to tell you I had so much fun going through your book. There
[2:37]is so much useful and fun information. It was like, it was like a home improvement magazine
[2:43]meets like self help, life skills, meets like really hands-on, useful advice. I don't know. It was
[2:50]great. And so pretty. And so fun to look at. I don't know. It's like, it was a treat. I felt like
[2:56]it was a total escapist type book. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. No problem. So
[3:02]why don't you tell listeners what the art of happy moving is about? Sure. So the art of happy
[3:06]moving is a guide to make moving a less stressful and a happier experience. And it's divided up
[3:11]into two halves where the first half is really getting ready for the move. So deciding whether you
[3:16]move at all and how to declutter, buying and selling a home, moving with pets, telling your kids
[3:22]about it and how to go through that whole process. So that's the first half. And then the second half
[3:26]of the book is once you're there and how to really live happily ever after. So how to create a home
[3:33]that you love, how to make connections with people when you move to a new city, how to create new
[3:38]habits when you move. And so that's one thing that is really, I hope readers take away from this is
[3:43]that it is a fresh start and that this is a perfect time to start new habits and to
[3:49]I don't know, half your life you would expect it. I was thinking later that it's like a makeover
[3:53]book where you're starting off in the beginning is like the before and the second half is after.
[3:58]So this is the new, fabulous you after you move and kind of the steps to get there.
[4:03]I also think, I mean, we're recording this now and quarantine via Skype. And this obviously has
[4:09]huge applications for when people are out and about and there's tons of moving. And I know
[4:13]there is some moving now too. But I feel like this book is so helpful particularly now because
[4:19]people are at home and regrouping in such a big way and looking at their home and spending
[4:24]time in their home and like half your book is all about that. It's like so useful. I mean,
[4:28]people are talking about how they don't have time. They're like meeting their neighbors for the
[4:33]first time. It's almost like the entire world has decided to just move and live where they actually
[4:38]live. Yeah, I grew up in Miami. And so we went through some hurricane situations where
[4:46]everything was shut down. So it was very similar where you get to know your neighbors and you're
[4:50]living at home and just finding joy and where you are and the things that you love about your house
[4:56]or deciding to make changes. I know a lot of people are decluttering right now. I keep seeing everyone
[5:00]posting on Instagram of things that they have decided to declutter all of their stuff. They're doing
[5:06]their closets. They're I think people want a sense of organization and structure amidst all the chaos
[5:13]and so they're trying to find some place to have control. And it's a good time, right? You're at home.
[5:18]So a good time to start doing your closets and everything. So I do think it's helpful to find ways
[5:24]to love your home right now because that's where we all are right now. Yeah, you might as well.
[5:28]You might as well. I just love it because that's what you got. So you moved 10 times
[5:34]in 11 years and then you started a blog about it called the Art of Happy Moving. Why did you
[5:40]move so much? Tell me. I want to know about each one like a sense about each move. Well, I would love
[5:45]to say Dan and I are romantic nomads who go where the wind takes us. But no, we're very, you know,
[5:51]practical. We went for medical school for my husband, law school for me. So we were following our
[5:56]education in our careers. And so we moved from Massachusetts to Maryland to Ohio to California to Illinois
[6:04]to Tennessee and then back to Illinois with a few local moves in there as well. So it was really
[6:08]to follow our dreams and our life goals that kind of took us crisscrossing around the country.
[6:13]And then some of that time you had children too in the next. Yes. So we had three kids once we moved to
[6:19]when we were in Chicago, we were in Illinois and then we moved to Tennessee with all of them,
[6:23]then we moved back. And so my youngest daughter, by the time she was a little past two years old,
[6:29]she had moved into her fourth house. And she was like, I've never moving again.
[6:34]She would just walk around the house. They're like, never moving, never moving.
[6:38]She'd been through a lot. And I actually liked you were really open about how you moved one place
[6:44]and you just didn't like it. You just, it wasn't what you expected. Well, it was Knoxville, right?
[6:48]Next. So it just wasn't the community you had in mind that suburban lifestyle was a little too
[6:54]spread out for you. And you had to reassess. And that's like, oh, that's a big deal having to
[6:58]come to that sort of conclusion based on feeling, right? Talk about that. Yeah, that was,
[7:04]it was a tough experience because we had moved so often and I just figured we could live anywhere
[7:09]and everywhere we would be happy anywhere. And Knoxville, Tennessee is beautiful. Like it is a
[7:13]wonderful place. The people were really nice, but we had made a pros and cons list when we were
[7:18]leaving Chicago. And on the pros list was like no state income tax, the beautiful weather. I'm from
[7:24]Miami. So like weather is important. So there was no state income tax. The weather was
[7:28]was beautiful. We're by the mountains, a great place to raise the kids. All of these things,
[7:32]which are true. I mean, Knoxville, Tennessee is a beautiful place, really family friendly.
[7:38]But then on the other side, we're all the things that I didn't really look inward to me
[7:43]and think of what is important in my day to day life. And now, and like for me, I know it's like,
[7:49]I love being at the lake and going for runs around the lake. Like that's something that brings
[7:52]me a lot of joy going to comedy clubs in Chicago, the restaurants. Like there's just having our kids
[7:57]walk to school. Like there were a lot of things that Knoxville didn't have that it's not Knoxville.
[8:03]It's just the things that are important to me. And so I do talk about a lot in the book to
[8:07]really look inward of what's important to you because there are great like Florida is a fabulous
[8:13]place to live. I love Florida, but a lot of people hate living for that, right? It's not that
[8:18]it's the location. It's what who you are and what's important to you. And connections was hard
[8:24]for me in Knoxville. And I think because it was a very tight-knit community. And that was one of
[8:28]the big reasons I wrote this book was because of social connections and wanting to help people
[8:34]when they moved to a city. And they were displaced. They didn't know anyone because it was really
[8:39]hard for me. And I have found that many people find themselves in that situation. And so that was
[8:45]really the inspiration for writing the book. Wow. So when did the blog start? So I actually
[8:50]going a little bit backwards. One of the first things that I did was I created a company called
[8:54]friend matchup. And this was, again, because I was really, I wanted to find a solution to people
[9:00]moving to a new place. So friend matchup, which is like match.com, but for platonic friendships when
[9:05]you move to a new city. So specifically for people moving to a new city. And I didn't have the
[9:09]money to make it what I wanted it to do, what I wanted to do with it. And so I shut it down,
[9:14]but I'd written a lot for my website friend matchup. And I had all of this information and knowledge
[9:20]that I wanted to share. And I thought, there's a need for this. I know because all these people
[9:24]from around the world had signed up for friend matchup and said, I'm in Paris, I'm in Seattle. Like
[9:28]I just moved here and I'm really lonely. And so I figured all this information I need to get
[9:33]it out of me and create a book. And so I wrote a first draft of my book. And then I was very
[9:39]fortunate to get an agent. And I realized I needed to flesh out my writing more where I focused a
[9:46]lot on families and kids in the first draft. And so I started interviewing dozens and dozens of
[9:52]people about their moves and talking to movers and realtors and homestagers and kind of getting
[9:57]the whole picture of moving. And so a block.
[10:00]I've seemed like the perfect place to do this,
[10:03]to have my different post all the time
[10:04]about all the different aspects of moving.
[10:06]And it was really fun getting direct feedback
[10:10]from readers and connecting with readers
[10:12]and just learning about the different issues
[10:15]that they were having and for me to be able to help them.
[10:17]And so I had my blog and then I was very fortunate
[10:20]to get a publisher with William Morrow.
[10:22]And so yeah, that was,
[10:24]that was how the art of happy moving was born.
[10:26]And you threw in there that law school
[10:28]was one of the reasons why you moved.
[10:30]So I'm assuming you're also a lawyer,
[10:32]trained lawyer that you finished law school.
[10:34]That's a visit.
[10:36]Yes, that's why I'm a lawyer by training,
[10:38]but I didn't practice law.
[10:40]Okay.
[10:41]And what brought you to law school?
[10:42]That's a great question.
[10:43]I wanted to do, I wanted to do something originally,
[10:47]I thought it was gonna be an international lawyer
[10:49]because I studied French, Spanish and Italian
[10:51]and college and I don't know.
[10:53]I wanted to help people through negotiations
[10:55]and whatnot.
[10:56]Then I had got married and we were gonna be domestic
[11:00]here in the US and I just wanted to have a background
[11:03]in something that could help me in anything.
[11:05]Like with the law, the law comes up all the time.
[11:07]So any contract negotiation, real estate,
[11:10]but then also other things that pop up.
[11:11]And so I thought I would probably use it
[11:13]more in a business setting than in a legal setting.
[11:16]At that point.
[11:17]But yeah, I actually, I love school.
[11:19]So going to law school was really fun.
[11:21]I love school too.
[11:23]This, actually what I'm doing now
[11:26]is more similar to school than anything I've done
[11:28]in like the last 20 years.
[11:30]Because now I have like, you know, routine deadlines
[11:32]and books to read and assignments.
[11:34]And I feel like I've like tried to structure
[11:35]my own little school.
[11:37]That's fantastic.
[11:39]You're living in the drinking.
[11:40]Yeah, right.
[11:41]Oh yeah, that's it.
[11:42]Living in the drinking.
[11:44]So you include a five step roadmap to moving,
[11:48]which is change your mindset, set goals,
[11:50]simplify, prepare, and focus on community.
[11:53]I'm just like summarizing there,
[11:55]which is really what we can do about basically
[11:57]any challenge in our lives, moving,
[12:00]anything we're going through now.
[12:02]How do you feel like this might apply
[12:04]to the fact that we're all at home?
[12:05]Like changing your mindset, setting goals,
[12:08]simplifying, preparing community,
[12:10]what are which of these are you like is most relevant to you
[12:13]today?
[12:14]Oh, I want to say all of them.
[12:16]Okay, okay.
[12:17]I do.
[12:18]I think with changing the mindset,
[12:22]for me, when we first started all this pandemic,
[12:24]when we've now been home, we're 28 days that we've been at home.
[12:28]And I felt a lot of panic.
[12:30]Panic was my mindset at the time.
[12:33]My husband's a doctor, lots of his family's doctors,
[12:36]my college roommates are doctors.
[12:37]And so I was very worried about a lot of people
[12:40]that I care about.
[12:41]And then I started switching my mindset to gratitude
[12:44]where I started to feel thankful for any moment
[12:48]that we had together.
[12:49]And then thinking about food,
[12:50]I was very panicked in the beginning about food.
[12:52]Did I get enough food or were we going to be okay?
[12:55]And then I switched to gratitude.
[12:56]We have the food that we have right now.
[12:58]And I'm so thankful for what we have on the table.
[13:01]And I'm so thankful for Instacart that came
[13:04]and brought more food, which was,
[13:05]I mean, it was a very big day.
[13:07]And so I think changing your mindset is just critical
[13:11]at all points to really look at the positive
[13:14]and to try to find ways to see goodness in tough times.
[13:18]And that's the same thing with the moving
[13:20]that I try to do where it's stressful, of course.
[13:23]And people look at it as like stressful and dread.
[13:25]But then at the end, like thinking of it as an opportunity
[13:27]and what can come of it.
[13:29]So I think the same is true with the pandemic
[13:31]and what we're going through right now.
[13:33]But I also think the setting goals was another one of them.
[13:35]And I realized that for me,
[13:39]it's sort of like a coping mechanism to setting goals
[13:42]because it gives you a purpose.
[13:43]And I about it a week ago when we realized like,
[13:47]okay, we're in this.
[13:48]So we're gonna be here for a while.
[13:50]And so being the self-help author mom that I am,
[13:54]I was like, all right, kids, here's some worksheets
[13:56]and we're gonna set goals.
[13:57]And so we set goals for each of the kids
[13:59]set their goals of what their academic goals are,
[14:02]what do they hope to accomplish in the next couple months,
[14:04]what their physical fitness goals are,
[14:06]if they're gonna try out their team next year,
[14:08]what do they need to do to get ready for that?
[14:10]What are their social goals?
[14:11]Like who are the people that they want to make sure
[14:13]they keep in contact with, whether it's friends
[14:15]or family members, cousins, like,
[14:18]because even though we're all at home,
[14:19]we do have limited energy of expanding and time,
[14:23]so to really make time for those relationships.
[14:26]And then also hobby goals.
[14:27]Like what are fun things that we wanna do
[14:28]in these next couple months?
[14:30]So I think setting goals is important
[14:33]just to give you purpose through all of this.
[14:35]And again, control over chaos
[14:37]where you can just find ways to make things work.
[14:43]You know, preparedness is important
[14:45]to reducing stress and simplifying.
[14:47]And then I do think the most important is connection.
[14:50]And again, it's the reason I wrote the book,
[14:52]but also if you look at all the happiness research,
[14:55]the number one indicator of happiness
[14:57]is your social connections.
[15:00]And I think we all feel that right now.
[15:02]Like that's never more true than this moment
[15:04]that we realize like we need each other.
[15:06]And so finding ways to connect with our loved ones
[15:11]right now, whether it is over Skype
[15:12]or we've been doing house party.
[15:14]I don't know if you've used that app,
[15:15]but it's really fun because you can play games
[15:17]with people at the same time.
[15:18]And so I do think, I don't know,
[15:21]I think all five steps are important.
[15:23]But connection, I think it is the connections is everything.
[15:27]I think you're right.
[15:28]I mean, I didn't mean to ask you to have to pick one
[15:30]that I wanted to highlight all five too.
[15:33]And they really are great.
[15:35]And by the way, that's really good advice
[15:37]about what you're doing with your kids
[15:39]because we have not set any goals.
[15:40]And yeah, I'm gonna literally get off this podcast
[15:44]and go right off some charts for those.
[15:46]I can send you line if you want.
[15:48]Awesome, great, you're better.
[15:50]You're good.
[15:51]How old are your kids?
[15:52]14, 12, and my daughter just turned 11 a couple weeks ago.
[15:55]So we had a quarantine birthday party.
[15:57]Nice, yeah.
[15:58]We haven't had a birthday in quarantine yet,
[16:00]but we're a love.
[16:01]I'm sure we'll get there.
[16:03]So I love doing quizzes.
[16:05]I feel like I was trained by 17 and YM
[16:09]all those magazines back in the day.
[16:11]Now, of course, they have like quiz magazines
[16:12]that are just quizzes.
[16:13]Did you know that?
[16:14]Oh, but no, I didn't know that.
[16:15]Yeah, I have a tween daughter.
[16:16]I have tween twins.
[16:17]Anyway, but the quizzes in your book were great
[16:20]because it asks you how to pick out
[16:23]like where you want to live.
[16:24]What type of environment?
[16:25]Do you want like a Cary Bradshaw lifestyle
[16:27]or do you want to listen to chirping birds
[16:29]when you wake up, blah, blah, blah.
[16:30]So I took this quiz and I live not right now
[16:34]because I'm out of the city just while this is all going on.
[16:37]But I'm mostly living New York City
[16:39]and have my entire life.
[16:40]I didn't pick any letter A,
[16:42]which would tell you to live in a city.
[16:44]So I'm a little concerned now about my choice
[16:46]where my main home basis and I got D,
[16:50]which was basically you just want to be around
[16:53]your family and your loved ones.
[16:54]And it almost doesn't matter where you live.
[16:55]So tell me about the categories.
[16:57]And what do you do if you are not living in the right place
[17:00]or you're a D like me?
[17:03]So for D, you are, you love the country.
[17:07]That's what it's, is that true?
[17:09]Because that's kind of the way that the quiz is,
[17:12]is if you're a D, you are a country person.
[17:14]So do you think you're a country person in the city?
[17:16]Maybe.
[17:17]Right now I'm a country person in the country
[17:20]and I'm really happy.
[17:21]Yeah.
[17:24]So I think it's fun to do the quizzes.
[17:26]I want to do lightning.
[17:27]I also grew up on 17 and doing all those magazine.
[17:29]So I think I wanted to put them in there
[17:31]so that there would be just something fun
[17:32]and lighthearted while you're moving.
[17:34]There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot going on
[17:35]when you're moving.
[17:36]Also to create it as a, a starting point for a discussion
[17:39]where if you're moving with other people,
[17:41]you could see what's important to you,
[17:42]what's important to them.
[17:43]And so let's say you are in the city
[17:46]that my advice would be to focus on the things
[17:48]that you can change.
[17:49]So if you are a country person
[17:52]or someone who just likes to be at home,
[17:54]then, you know, focus on making sure
[17:55]that your home is a place that you can entertain people
[17:59]if that's the way that you like to be with family
[18:01]or to, if possible to get an apartment with a garden view
[18:05]or a little bit quieter, like there's always trade-offs, right?
[18:08]But to change the things that you can change,
[18:11]or focus on the things you can change.
[18:12]And then also having your vacations
[18:14]because let's say you have to be in New York City
[18:16]for work or whatever, then make sure that your vacation time
[18:19]is in the space where you feel recharged.
[18:23]So instead of going to an up to San Francisco for vacation,
[18:26]then find a country, a country house somewhere
[18:29]that you can spend a week there.
[18:31]But throughout the book and doing all the quizzes,
[18:34]I just wanted it as a way that people could really be more
[18:37]in tune with themselves and what are the little things
[18:40]that make them happy because then you can incorporate that.
[18:43]And it was fun doing it with my kids
[18:45]and they were doing the quiz of where they like to be.
[18:48]And for me, I'm a nature person and like more suburban nature.
[18:52]And so I realized like, I need to be outside.
[18:54]I need to, whenever I can, you know, go for a walk
[18:57]and that will make me feel better.
[18:58]And then hearing my, my kids is just funny.
[19:01]I guess there were, it was a different quiz
[19:02]about the home and what's important to you in your house,
[19:06]whether you are a visual person or the smells.
[19:10]And my daughter was a listener and she loved the sounds.
[19:13]And I never would have known that.
[19:15]Had we not done the quiz together and talked about it.
[19:18]And so now she has a fountain in her room
[19:20]and she always has music going or a sound maker.
[19:23]And it's just those are the things that bring her joy.
[19:26]I love that.
[19:27]I was a feeling person, which I could tell you because everything I have to like touch
[19:31]and like touch my face and yeah, all your tips.
[19:34]I was like, look, that is what my dining room looks like.
[19:36]That is what, that is my bedroom carpet, you know.
[19:40]So those are awesome.
[19:41]I loved those.
[19:42]So what is coming next for you?
[19:43]What do you want to do next?
[19:45]Are you, and by the way, are you done moving?
[19:47]Are you like firmly set where you are now?
[19:49]Or do you feel there are more moves in your future?
[19:51]The average American moves 11.7 times in their lifetime.
[19:54]So I think statistically we probably have more moves left.
[19:59]But I do think...
[20:00]I don't know.
[20:01]I wouldn't say never, maybe moving again.
[20:04]But in terms of what's next, I love helping people with moving.
[20:09]I'm going to continue with my blogging.
[20:10]I do a lot of speaking engagements.
[20:12]And right now, I'm trying to help people
[20:14]through the pandemic of moving,
[20:16]because a lot of people are having to move right now.
[20:19]They had houses for sale or they're buying places.
[20:21]They need to move.
[20:23]And so I'm trying to work with organizations
[20:27]to donations right now are, you can't donate things, right?
[20:31]Because of the pandemic.
[20:32]So that is one thing I'd love to tell listeners
[20:34]who are decluttering.
[20:35]Please hold on to your items.
[20:37]Right now, while you're decluttering,
[20:39]I went for a run a couple days ago.
[20:40]And there were bags and bags and bags outside of a donation
[20:44]bin of things that people had been discarding
[20:47]during the pandemic.
[20:48]And it's been raining.
[20:50]They're all sobbing wet.
[20:51]They're not getting picked up.
[20:52]So all these items that will not be able to be used
[20:56]is really sad.
[20:57]And so please hold on to your items.
[21:00]They will be needed more than ever
[21:02]when this pandemic is over.
[21:03]So I'm trying to find a solution.
[21:05]I'm working with the major moving in storage organization
[21:09]and moving with movers and trying
[21:10]to find a storage facility where potentially people who
[21:14]are moving could just leave their things in storage
[21:16]and leave them there in quarantine, basically,
[21:20]so that when this is all over, all of these charities
[21:22]can come pick up the items.
[21:24]So I'm hoping to get that put together if I do.
[21:26]I will let everybody know.
[21:28]But yeah, for now, I just am focused on this
[21:31]and trying to help people through the move.
[21:32]And it's different people that are moving every year.
[21:36]And so I just want to help them as they're going through it.
[21:40]And eventually, I'll probably write another book.
[21:41]But for now, I'm just really focused on getting the message
[21:44]out about happy moving and how to make it a less stressful
[21:47]experience and to get the joy out of it.
[21:49]Because it is an incredible opportunity.
[21:52]I love the fresh start of moving.
[21:53]Like I am someone who actually enjoys moving.
[21:55]because there is this goodness at the other end of it.
[21:57]So yeah, that's what I'm doing for now.
[21:59]I mean, I would hope you like moving after dedicating your whole life.
[22:02]If you were like, oh, what a pain, then I would say,
[22:05]maybe it's time to look into something else.
[22:09]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[22:11]Yes.
[22:12]One of the main things I would say would
[22:13]be to get on social media.
[22:16]And I'm not saying this in terms of selling books,
[22:18]because I think you hear that.
[22:19]I'm like, OK, you should be on social media.
[22:21]But for me, I was never on social media
[22:23]until I started my blog.
[22:25]And it was really scary, because I'm not,
[22:28]you know, I was private.
[22:29]Like I just wasn't on social media.
[22:30]And so having a social media author presence
[22:35]where you can connect with other writers
[22:37]is so important because you will get
[22:40]to go through all the stages with them.
[22:42]And it is writing can be a roller coaster of sundowns
[22:47]as you're going through it.
[22:48]And to have other people on the ride with you
[22:50]makes it so much fun.
[22:51]And you will celebrate each other's victories.
[22:53]You will commiserate over the tough parts.
[22:56]And it makes all the difference.
[22:57]And so I have been very fortunate throughout this whole journey
[23:00]to make friends all around the world
[23:03]through Instagram.
[23:04]Some people prefer Twitter or Facebook or whatever.
[23:06]But for me, through Instagram,
[23:07]just meeting all these amazing writers everywhere.
[23:10]So I would say get on social media
[23:12]because writing can be a lonely profession.
[23:15]And this way you always have your friends with you.
[23:18]And you will make all these great connections.
[23:20]So start there.
[23:22]And you learn a lot from each other, too.
[23:24]So any questions, you can just ask your writer friends
[23:27]on social media.
[23:28]I love them.
[23:29]That's awesome.
[23:30]And thank you also, by the way, for contributing an essay
[23:32]that we found time.com, my new online magazine,
[23:34]that will be coming out soon, too.
[23:36]So thank you so much.
[23:37]I love reading magazine.
[23:38]I was reading all the articles last night.
[23:40]And it just made me feel better.
[23:42]Good.
[23:42]That was the point.
[23:43]Thank God.
[23:44]OK, I helped one person.
[23:45]It was all worth it.
[23:47]It was too much worth it if you did.
[23:49]It just made me smile.
[23:50]So thank you, Debbie.
[23:51]OK.
[23:51]All right, well, thanks so much, Ellie.
[23:53]Thank you.
[23:53]OK, bye, bye.
[23:55]I hope you enjoyed this episode of Advice Monday
[23:58]on the July book blast.
[24:00]I know that some of these were from the quarantine
[24:02]and some might seem even old, even though they've just
[24:04]come out.
[24:05]But I just had to get them out in one big sweep.
[24:07]And I hope that you've gotten some useful life tips
[24:10]as you've listened today.
[24:12]Thanks again for listening to my podcast.
[24:14]Moms don't have time to read books.
[24:16]If you liked this episode, please follow me
[24:18]on Instagram at zivioins and at moms
[24:21]don't have time to read books.
[24:23]And sign up for my mailing list at zivioins.com
[24:26]so you can always hear about the latest things I'm up to.
[24:29]Thanks a lot.
[24:29]Thanks so much to Page One Books for sponsoring today's episode.
[24:32]I hope you'll all check out my summer Beach Bundle
[24:35]at page1books.com.
[24:36]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[24:39]for the sound editing.
[24:40]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[24:42]for providing this fantastic intro and outram Music.
[24:45]Thanks for listening.
[24:46]You could always email me at zivioins.com.