Amity Gaige, SEA WIFE
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
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[1:04]by it is a gift to housewarming if you actually go somewhere or just give it to yourself. Everybody
[1:09]needs a treat without a long spring. PageOneBooks.com. Welcome to the third day of my July book
[1:16]blast. This is Be Treats Wednesday. And I'll be releasing lots of episodes this week and next
[1:23]to get all these great be treats out and also books that have come out during the quarantine,
[1:28]or books that I think you just need to read at this time. And I just don't want you to miss
[1:33]these authors for any longer. So anyway, here are some great beach reads. Each episode this week
[1:38]will have a book that I think you should curl up with and read if you ever find the time.
[1:43]Amity Gage is the author of Three Novels, Omidarling the Folded World and Schroeder, which was shortlisted
[1:49]for the folio prize in 2014. And now she has just released her latest book, which is called Sea Wife
[1:55]and has been launched a great acclaim. Published in 18 countries, Schroeder was named one of the best
[2:00]works of 2013 by the New York Times Book Review, the Huffington Post, Washington Post,
[2:05]the Wall Street Journal, Kirkus Reviews, the Women's National Book Association,
[2:09]Cosmopolitan, Denver Post, they're literally 10 of the ones so I'm going to stop.
[2:13]Amity is the recipient of many awards for her previous novels, including Forward Book of the Year
[2:18]Award for 2007. And in 2006, she was named one of the five under 35 outstanding emerging
[2:23]writers by the National Book Foundation. She has a Fulbright and a Guggenheim Fellowship,
[2:28]and residencies at McDowell and Yatto. Her work has appeared in the Guardian, the New York Times
[2:33]literary review, the Yale Review, and one story. She lives in Connecticut with her family and teaches
[2:38]creative writing at Yale. Welcome, Amity. Thanks so much for coming on mom's and her time to read books.
[2:43]Thank you for having me, Zavi. I'm glad to be here.
[2:46]Your novel Sea Wife, by the way, was in the window in the only bookstore I've seen in real life
[2:52]in the last like two months. So you got prominent, prominent placement for your beautiful cover.
[2:59]So happy to hear that. It is such a pretty cover. It's like this Robin Zeke blue. It's really
[3:04]kind of sticks out. It does, and it's great. It's like, and it's very peaceful too, even though
[3:09]there's a lot that goes on. Can you please tell us, and there's what Sea Wife is about?
[3:14]Sure. Yes, it is about a family of four that decides to scrap their conventional life and
[3:21]Connecticut, suburban Connecticut, and go on a boat in the Caribbean for a year. And it's told from
[3:27]two perspectives and finally three, there's a husband and the wife, and then their little daughter
[3:33]who who pipes in towards the end. And it's written in a unique way in that they has been in
[3:41]wife, alternate, and narration. As frequently sometimes as every other line or every other paragraph,
[3:46]and they're kind of kind of telling the story together. And as you realize, as you move on,
[3:51]that they're telling the story from different time frames. And it's really kind of
[3:56]Juliet, the mother and the wife, the woman, the protagonist. It's really her story. But you don't
[4:02]kind of, there's so much you don't know as the narration starts. All you know is that she's reflecting
[4:08]on their time at sea, and you get to read and michael the husband's perspective as well and
[4:14]alternate between the two of them for most of the book. And you know that she has a pension for
[4:20]closets. Who doesn't? Right. But yeah, she does. She's sitting in a closet at the beginning of the
[4:29]book. And it was just a lot of questions about why, you know, you know, she's undergone some sort of
[4:33]loss. And her children are fine. And her brother is there helping. So it's the rest of the
[4:39]story is unpacking what happened as she looks back on the journey. And I loved how when you were
[4:44]describing how she like lost her closet to begin with, you read, but I am a mother. Gradually,
[4:49]I just gave them all away. All my spaces one by one down to the very last closet.
[4:55]I wondered. I wondered if you related to that. I really, I completely related to that.
[5:01]I also related when you said about the husband, Michael, Michael, how he was morbidly funny and
[5:06]how he got funnier and funnier while I who had been funny got less funny. That was so spot on.
[5:13]Great. Yes. I know what we used to be funny. I know what happened. No, it's either, I think you
[5:20]were saying that. Yeah, a lot of those lines are definitely called, you know, from my own insights
[5:25]or from certainly from the lot of this book is based on a lot of inspired by so many conversations
[5:32]with so many women. I had another friend of mine, Susan Choi, who wrote that great book,
[5:37]Trust Exercise. We were talking about sea wife and she found another line and a couple of other
[5:45]women have mentioned the one about like even though we were both educated people and we understood
[5:50]things about gender roles, we just signed up for the same kind of stereotypical gender role
[5:56]set. We thought had been consigned to the cultural ash heap and she and she and a couple of other
[6:02]kind of brought that up. So little nuggets throughout the book about, you know, how it feels to be
[6:10]in a contemporary marriage to be a woman, a working woman, a mom with her own ambitions. A lot of
[6:17]stuff about that. Here's just one more line. When you wrote, we're just a hyphen between our
[6:23]parents and our kids. That's what you learn in middle age. Mostly this is something a mature person
[6:27]can live with. But every once in a while, you just want to send up a flare. I too am here.
[6:34]Right. I feel like Amity, I'm now like reading your diary is what's going on here.
[6:41]Oh, it's so funny. You're picking out a lot of the lines that I definitely really relate to.
[6:46]There's a lot of that in there. And there's also stuff that I don't. You know, there's stuff that
[6:50]since I had to represent different points of view, like I really had to imagine my way into
[6:56]actually Michael's consciousness, because he's my male character. And I wanted to give him a lot
[7:01]of depth too. The line you just read is from him. So yeah, so he's good to have wherever they
[7:09]wherever they appear on the page. We know where they're coming from. Yeah, but right. So obviously
[7:14]it's fiction. I'm not trying to suggest that this is all what's actually in your head. I'm really
[7:18]just poking fun. Let's admit it. We always think that the author is the same as the characters.
[7:24]I do too. You know, we often imagine that that they're the same. Of course, of course, they're not.
[7:29]I am not at my my family is all intact. And we never left the Bourbon, Connecticut.
[7:36]More of an imagination than anything else. But I heard that you did learn it to sales that you
[7:41]could write this book. I did. How is that? That was a nightmare. But I am a better person for it.
[7:49]I like walking back back a little bit. I started with this idea that I really wanted to set
[7:56]a book at sea. I love describing things. I love I love books with a strong sense place. And I
[8:01]definitely think that sea waves is kind of in that category of like I'm setting it so important.
[8:06]And so I did my best to certainly learn how everything I could about sailing and about maritime
[8:14]life. And I interviewed many, many families who live at sea. I visited them. And at a certain
[8:21]point, I knew that I needed to I needed to sail on my own, my own. But I ended up going to the
[8:28]Caribbean again to Grenada for a 10 day sailing course, which frankly wasn't a lot. But I learned
[8:35]everything that I needed to know about to write sea wife, which is not just how some of those
[8:42]parts of the book of the boat work and sailing is very complex. So I did need to know what a
[8:48]winch and a sheet in this mansion are. But it was more that I I really needed to feel the wind at sea
[8:56]and hear it. And you know, hear it like a whistle in the rigging. I needed to feel what it feels like
[9:04]to try to walk when you're below or to sleep in a storm. All those sensory aspects of things
[9:12]and that's what I got when I went on that sailing course. And since we did meet some weather,
[9:17]I also really needed that to inform some of the later scenes. Basically the last quarter of the book
[9:23]is one long journey into the middle of the sea. And it was very much informed, very necessary that
[9:30]I went and took that journey myself. And also my characters are really not as sailors. They're not
[9:36]like crows. So it helped that I wasn't trying to be an expert about sailing. They were more like me.
[9:44]Juliette is more like me in the sense of she's like, okay, I'll do this for you, honey. And I want to
[9:50]try to save our marriage. And I'm impressed myself. I need to have an adventure and maybe try
[9:56]something new. But she's extremely wary.
[10:00]skeptical and I think the real journey of the book is really hers, you know, which is that
[10:06]she needs to break out of that fear and indecision and fail. And really that's what she
[10:14]ends up doing. Wow. So your structure, as you mentioned before, is complicated in that it's
[10:20]working like one point of view is at the end after the adventure one is at the beginning
[10:25]from a different character's point of view than you interweave a third. How did you keep
[10:29]that all straight while you were writing? Like, what did your desk look like? Do you have it
[10:32]all in your head or do you have no cards or hat? Like, how did you how what was the process like
[10:37]for you? That is a really good question. It wasn't kind of controlled in sanity, I would say.
[10:44]I mean, it was like it was definitely my most ambitious thing that I've done and not only was it
[10:51]quite difficult to try to write about a C when I'm not a sailor, but also the structure of the book,
[10:57]exactly as you said, where it's back and forth in time and also it also has a I think a strong
[11:03]narrative, but it has these also moments of meditation where like say one character comes in or
[11:08]Michael, you know, he meditates on helicopter parenting and then Julia comes and meditates on poetry
[11:14]and you know, women poets. And so it's like, I think I thought of the book, I like the metaphor
[11:23]of way points in sailing. So in sailing, there are way points, which is just legs and a journey,
[11:28]but sometimes those way points are in the middle of nowhere because if you're if you're you're
[11:32]going to cross the ocean, you still have to kind of aim for something, but that point might be
[11:37]just coordinates in the middle of the ocean. And it was very similar in writing the book,
[11:42]let me just get to this way point. Let me get to this way point. I'm going to sort of sense
[11:47]or intuit my way from one to the next and kind of hope that we are going towards I knew
[11:54]where I wanted to go, but I did not know the way points. So I was constantly like, you know,
[12:00]pushing towards the final, final goal in the journey, but there was a lot of movement on the way.
[12:08]And one thing that I'm letting I hope about the book is that the reader feels,
[12:13]feels both those things too, both the narrative, tension in terms of the total journey, which is
[12:19]so cool to see. And also the momentum of these way points and these these pauses where where one
[12:27]character remembers or reflects on things because those those are also quite important. So as you're
[12:32]reading the book, there's a sense of like forward movement and also pausing. And I think they're both
[12:38]important. Of course, if somebody wants to read it all in one sitting and just like power through it,
[12:43]I love that. Like I love the idea that somebody I've gotten some readers saying, oh, I stayed up
[12:48]all night or I lost sleep to read this book. I think that's a huge compliment, but there also is
[12:53]there also are these kind of poet at the moment of like stillness in the book.
[12:56]And also with Julia being a poet and having her own poems that it's like perfectly fitting.
[13:03]Yeah, right. Right. She loves her poetry and she hopes that I mean she she's studying it and trying
[13:11]to be an academic, but she also just is a sensitive person hoping to kind of understand her own
[13:17]life experience through poetry, which is which is something a lot of us do.
[13:23]So after you write a book like this and I know this is not your first novel by any stretch,
[13:28]but I think it's your fifth. Is that did I get that right? The fifth or your fourth?
[13:31]This is this is my fourth, though, before I said I was like, oh my god, did I write another book?
[13:36]Sorry, I'm sorry. I have it in front of me, but I was not. Anyway, sorry. Okay, your fourth,
[13:42]but after like delving deep into, you know, the what happens with a family away at sea and
[13:48]really going into the relationships, how do you then go back to your own family? Like, does
[13:53]that make you feel any differently about your own marriage or your own parenting or anything
[13:57]having examined this other sort of fictitious family's life for a while?
[14:02]Hmm, that's a great question for sure. I think I felt I felt that meditating on my own
[14:08]life and choices throughout the whole process of writing a book because as I was researching,
[14:13]I was meeting families who were living in, you know, non-traditional ways. And I started out the
[14:19]book thinking, these people are crazy, you know, as I said, I'm not a sailor. But as time went on,
[14:24]I realized that there was actually, I've always admired people who take risks and
[14:31]adventures. And I, even if they don't succeed and sometimes especially if those adventures don't
[14:38]succeed. And I think I was moved to see these people taking these risks and not reckless. I mean,
[14:46]these are very good sailors. They know what they're doing. The children are extremely
[14:50]safe to conscious and everything. And I admired them. It didn't make me want to go and
[14:56]set sail, but it reminded me how much it matters that a spirit of adventure is in my own life.
[15:04]And to not live a life out of fear, like, of course, you don't need to go failing. It's
[15:10]prove it. But to try to a spirit of adventure, a even in smaller ways, my own parent, one great thing
[15:17]they did with me is they were great travelers and we went to some strange places in the world.
[15:22]And that made a huge impact on me because I had a more perspective. I would get out of my
[15:27]hypnosis deckle box that were all born in. And that's very valuable. So I want to bring that to my
[15:34]children. I want to be able to have them be brave and in nature and spiritually. So I do want to
[15:42]do that. And then like everybody, I often don't and can't do those things. But it's an aspiration
[15:49]and something to keep in mind and and to do whenever possible. Hashtag goals.
[15:56]And also, I will say, of course, I've learned, you know, it's not a lot about marriage. And
[16:00]I might have a beautiful support of husbands. Nobody ever believes that because I
[16:06]just rest marriages in my my novel. But I would say that, of course, this sense of marital stress
[16:16]and that it's quite common, especially, I think, when children arrive. And it hits men and women
[16:22]quite differently. They are idle of the children. And it is, I think, it's always so important to
[16:29]remember that the other person is a human being with their own dreams and to try to to honor
[16:35]that each spouse honor that in the other. And I think that that's something that, you know,
[16:40]Juliet and Michael, you know, they fail at, they try, but they don't do it in time. And I guess if
[16:47]there was sort of a message that the book gives, it would be to try to do that while you can.
[16:53]You know, try to love each other while you can, to communicate while you can and don't let
[16:59]the past or other wounds going to rob you of connections with your spouse or with anybody.
[17:04]Do you have any parting advice now that you have all that relationship advice out there? Any
[17:09]parting advice for a spider is firing authors?
[17:12]Haring authors, oh my gosh, I've teacher. I'm a teacher. I've taught so many years and I love teaching
[17:20]and I think that aspiring writers should reach out and find community. And they should find
[17:30]some mentors they can or peers who are like mentors and get together and celebrate their writing.
[17:38]There is so much genuine community in sharing your work with others and hearing what they say,
[17:46]you know, and you don't need to wait for publication for that to happen. It's certainly one of the
[17:51]coolest things about being a published writer is that suddenly that community really opens up
[17:56]and you hear from strangers and that's that's the coolest thing in the world. But until you can
[18:03]get to that place, you still share. I think that's what we're looking for recognition from others
[18:10]and to be seen by others when we write our stories and so don't wait.
[18:15]Oh, I love that. That was awesome advice. Well, thank you so much,
[18:19]Amity, this has been so much fun. I feel like now I want to like go meet you for coffee or something,
[18:23]but I don't know. It's a fun play and a better time. In the meantime, sea life, congratulations,
[18:31]so exciting and thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having a great day.
[18:37]All right. Okay, bye. Thanks for listening to a Beach Reads Wednesday episode from my big July
[18:44]book blast. I hope you've enjoyed it and I hope you've enjoyed getting to know some of these
[18:48]amazing authors. Thanks again for listening to my podcast. Moms don't have time to read books.
[18:54]If you liked this episode, please follow me on Instagram at zippyowans and at moms don't have time
[19:01]to read books and sign up for my mailing list at zippyowans.com so you can always hear about
[19:06]the latest things I'm up to you. Thanks a lot. Thanks so much to Page One Books for sponsoring today's
[19:10]episode. I hope you'll all check out my summer Beach Bundle at page one books.com. Thanks so much
[19:16]to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon
[19:20]Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music. Thanks for listening. You could
[19:25]always email me at zippyowans.com.