Brad Montague, BECOMING BETTER GROWNUPS
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zive Owens and you're listening to the award-winning podcast.
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[2:27]For 20% off, use code Zibi20ZIBY20. I had such a nice conversation with Brad Montague. It was kind
[2:36]of a sad rainy day and we just had the best time talking and I feel like I got to know him really
[2:42]well and it made his book all the better. His latest book is called Becoming Better Grown-ups.
[2:47]Rediscovering what matters and remembering how to fly by obviously by Brad Montague.
[2:52]But he's also developed Kid President, which is an award-winning series and is just an all-over
[2:58]awesome guy. His website is Montague Workshop and he goes around the country talking to teachers
[3:04]and educators and everybody else, helping us all rediscover our joy. He has amazing YouTube videos.
[3:11]He reads his book online. You should definitely check it out and listen to Brad and me.
[3:15]I think it'll give you some really good insights. Thanks, Brad. So much for coming on
[3:19]Monster No Town to read books today. Thank you. Thanks for having this playground that we can play
[3:25]in together. This will be fun. Well, actually, we're on Skype right now and I'm looking at
[3:28]your office. It looks super fun. I kind of wish I was there. You have like multi-colored like
[3:33]pom-poms hanging from the window and clothes and illustrations and yeah, I would expect nothing
[3:38]less. If you have to have a place that you work, it should be a place you want to go.
[3:44]Yeah, I need to redo this. This isn't even my office. Anyway, yes. I'm jealous of your setup.
[3:52]So your latest book becoming better grown-ups, which you know, I really loved from our Instagram
[3:57]live video that we already did together. Can you tell listeners what it's about and what inspired
[4:01]you to write it? So I had found myself in this really rough spot, this rough patch, this dark patch,
[4:09]I had had a big successful project that had gone viral and all of this had happened and I was
[4:17]overwhelmed. I didn't know what to do next and I was just stuck. Like, literally found myself here
[4:23]in this office just showing up and on the floor and my wife was like, dude, what's wrong?
[4:30]You know, what's going on? You've lost yourself and I was working through what next? Because I
[4:38]I had all these projects that I thought, okay, I'm going to work on this next thing and it just
[4:42]didn't happen. And I'd do this next thing and it, you know, it would be fun, but it didn't happen.
[4:47]I was working in TV and kids TV. I was working writing. I was working on other books and for
[4:53]whatever reason, it just kept all falling apart and I'm over. I'm done. I've got nothing left to
[5:02]give the world. Nobody wants anything except kid president. This thing I already did.
[5:07]And then I got an email from a teacher and she said, hey, we've been using your videos and we
[5:14]were inspired and we wanted to share with you what we've been doing. And then a lot of teachers
[5:21]were emailing and asking and it wasn't like we want you to do something. It was the one place in
[5:27]the world in my inbox where somebody didn't want something from me. They just wanted me to be there.
[5:34]They just wanted to show me something that they had been inspired by something we had done and
[5:39]had taken it even further. And so it was breathing me back to life. I was spending time with kids,
[5:46]people who cared about kids. And so I decided I'm going to go on a listen tour and I'm not going
[5:52]to show up at a school and have a book to read or anything to promote our message to share other
[5:58]their voices matter. And I'm going to listen. So I listened to kids in elementary schools all over
[6:05]the U.S. and every single state. And what I learned, I didn't know it was going to be a book.
[6:11]Like I thought, oh, this is just fun and helpful. And it's challenging me and growing me and
[6:17]breathing me back to life. But when I saw the looks in kids' eyes, when they would tell me about
[6:22]what they thought it would look like to be a good grown up and who great grownups were in their
[6:28]I was convinced I have to I have a responsibility to share this. So that's amazing. Books that have
[6:38]to come out like that you feel like you have no choice. Those are the best books.
[6:43]I mean, I've found so many books like that that I love that you can tell that it just had to be
[6:49]written. But the whole time with this, I kept thinking I'm not the person to do this. There's so
[6:55]many other people that should write this book. But yet it was this lump in my throat that I had to
[7:01]get out. I had to share. And I think that's a big part of the book too is this idea that we wait so
[7:11]much for somebody better than us to to arrive, someone better than us to do the things. And they're
[7:19]honestly for whoever's listening to this for everybody that there's no better person to be you
[7:26]than you. And the there comes a point where we all realize we're the grownup in the room and it's
[7:33]terrifying. And that's because we care. But it should be exhilarating. It should be a moment in
[7:41]which we can accept with joy and with gratitude that we get to be of service. We get to show up.
[7:48]So there's no better grownup than you, the one in the room. I really appreciate your sharing that
[7:55]you this came out of a place of sort of almost depression and hopelessness that you've created
[8:01]this piece of beauty. Because when I look at you and talk to you, I think of you as this like
[8:06]really successful accomplished creative guy. And yet because you couldn't get another project
[8:12]right after your last insanely successful project, you felt like that was it. And I feel like it's
[8:17]such a common feeling that like like this despair, like one project gets a gets canceled. And that's
[8:24]it, you know? And yeah, you immediately slipped to this place of oh no, well, I'm over. That's ridiculous.
[8:32]Think about how much life and product that you have so many projects left in you. And then of
[8:36]course this one came out, which was absolutely beautiful and inspiring and will help so many people.
[8:40]So it just goes to show like for anybody out there who's feeling like really dejected about,
[8:45]you know, any reason is that like, you know, you just have to get off the floor and do something
[8:50]and things will things will get better. Yes, you will lead to a lovely place.
[8:56]So when you went on your listening tour, what were some of the things you started hearing
[9:00]that stuck with you the most that made you feel the most compelled to turn your journey into a book
[9:05]and a movement really? Yeah, I think I had this thought that of what it would be, you know,
[9:11]just cute things kids would share. I just, like the kids say the darnedest things kind of idea
[9:17]of, oh, they said a word wrong and it's silly. And there is that where kids are funny and they're
[9:24]brilliant and creative. It's so hilarious. Like one kid blew my mind. We were, it was actually
[9:31]a Skype conversation with the classroom. And this kid had this very serious look on his face.
[9:38]He has raised his hand and a teacher said, okay, you've got the microphone, tell Brad.
[9:42]And then he went, you know, sharks probably aren't afraid of other sharks.
[9:48]I thought, whoa, I've never thought about that. And it's still, I think about that sometimes.
[9:55]But that was when I would pose the question.
[10:00]What would it look like to be a great grown-up?
[10:03]Like, tell me about a great grown-up.
[10:05]I wanna be a great grown-up, so tell me.
[10:08]And they wouldn't skip a beat.
[10:11]They would immediately tell me about somebody in their lives
[10:15]that, and I was thinking,
[10:16]oh, it would be them telling me something huge.
[10:20]Like somebody who bought them a pony
[10:24]and like took them on a giant trip.
[10:27]But it was always little things.
[10:28]It was about the way that their mom would pick them up
[10:32]from school and always, it was a story one kid gave about.
[10:36]Going to the park with his uncle
[10:38]and that that was a regular thing
[10:40]and he loved rolling down the hill and making him laugh.
[10:43]And it was this just really incredible reminder
[10:47]that all they want is for the grown-ups
[10:52]in their lives to see them.
[10:54]And then when I started sharing that,
[10:57]I realized that there was actually neuroscience
[11:01]to prove that, that there was developmental psychology
[11:03]that had shown that that's what helps us grow,
[11:09]the active ingredient in all of our developments is love.
[11:13]And not just one big grand gesture of love,
[11:16]but over time, every day,
[11:18]just little bitty bits of love.
[11:22]And that for me, it made me show up differently
[11:27]in my house with my kids.
[11:29]And it made me, whenever I saw my friends,
[11:31]who are stressing out about being parents
[11:33]or saw teachers to just be able to let them relax
[11:37]their shoulders and let them know,
[11:38]hey, you don't have to be spectacular.
[11:41]You already are.
[11:43]Like just your presence of looking them in the eyes
[11:46]and listening is going to change every day.
[11:50]I feel like I've learned so much from you
[11:52]and from this time at home with my kids.
[11:55]So I can't do the coronavirus about parenting
[11:58]and what kids actually need versus what I thought
[12:01]that they needed, what I thought I had to do as a good mom.
[12:04]So your book and your message is like so spot on for now.
[12:08]I mean, they don't need, like,
[12:11]I don't have to roll out a red carpet for my kids.
[12:14]You know, I just have to not be rude.
[12:16]Yeah, you know, and it's simple,
[12:21]but it's rarely easy.
[12:23]So it's like this morning,
[12:26]it was a roller coaster for us in our house
[12:28]where, you know, it was started out very sweet.
[12:31]The kids showed up in the bed and they were wanting to cuddle
[12:34]and then they started fighting and then my daughter's crying
[12:37]and had to have this moment of just realizing,
[12:41]okay, pause, breathe and let me hear what she's upset about
[12:47]and let me let her see that I see her
[12:51]and let's provide a better way forward together.
[12:55]And just that recognizing of what they're going through,
[12:59]you know, my kids are missing out on things that they love
[13:01]and they're not very vocal about it and words
[13:04]because they're seven and five.
[13:06]So they're not talking about the friends they mess
[13:08]or the events they mess.
[13:10]Instead, they're acting out in other ways.
[13:13]And so it takes us tuning our eyes and ears
[13:16]to see all the ways they're hurting
[13:19]and to acknowledge that we see it.
[13:21]But to do that, we have to be sort of calm
[13:24]and present enough ourselves to be receptive
[13:27]to that information instead of reactive.
[13:29]I mean, that takes a place of sort of centeredness.
[13:33]And it also, you know, one thing I've had to learn too
[13:36]is I wanted to be kind of guarded about letting them know
[13:40]when I was upset and instead finding that that's actually
[13:47]so helpful for them to know and dad is scared
[13:50]or, you know, dad actually doesn't have the answer right now.
[13:54]I don't know what happens next.
[13:57]But here's what I do know, you know,
[13:59]and letting them feel that I want them to know
[14:07]that we're learning and growing together through this.
[14:10]That's one of the things that I discover too
[14:13]as I started to interview not only kids
[14:16]but interview former kids,
[14:19]people over the age of 100.
[14:21]When I talked to them about what it looked like
[14:23]to be a great adult, what it looked like to grow
[14:25]and they had such a wisdom,
[14:28]but they also had this whimsy to them, this wonder,
[14:32]like this lightness of being that they could be so grateful
[14:35]to be talking to me, didn't even know me that well,
[14:38]but so grateful.
[14:40]And when they talked about growth or they talked about,
[14:44]you know, how they got where they were,
[14:46]was always about walking alongside the people next to them,
[14:51]their children, that the moments they remember
[14:54]were the field trips, the moments they remember
[14:56]or when they were going through something together
[14:58]instead of passing down great wisdom from, you know,
[15:02]the throne and handing it down to kids,
[15:05]they themselves learned alongside their parents
[15:08]and their teachers, their neighbors, friends.
[15:10]And that's the way we are meant to grow in relationships.
[15:15]Wow.
[15:16]This advice is so good and I'm trying to like store it all
[15:19]in my head.
[15:20]It's selfishly to like take it back to my own life.
[15:25]So in your book, you have a story within a story
[15:27]called the Incredible Floating Girl,
[15:29]which you read on YouTube and is just so amazing.
[15:33]And how when your daughter was born, she laughed
[15:36]and how does the world conspired to sort of squelch
[15:40]that laughter and what can we do to stop that?
[15:43]Tell me about writing the story within a story,
[15:46]which is so beautiful.
[15:48]Yeah, you know, so much of what I was seeing.
[15:53]I think I had this thought that being a dad was me
[15:56]really, you know, educating them on how to be a human
[15:59]and then holding them and realizing,
[16:02]I don't know how to human.
[16:04]Like I don't think I could do that.
[16:06]And yet holding her and seeing that she had it all figured out.
[16:12]She was so happy.
[16:15]There's this piece and this laughter.
[16:19]And I was struck with this responsibility of,
[16:22]oh no, I don't want her to lose this.
[16:24]I can't, my job is now not to make her smile.
[16:29]It's to keep her from stopping.
[16:32]It's, how do I have her not lose this lightness?
[16:35]And at the same time too, I had been spending time
[16:38]with all of these people doing interviews
[16:41]with celebrities and world leaders.
[16:45]But when I would interview them,
[16:46]I had a kid doing it with a tin can phone.
[16:50]And we would, when you have an invitation for people
[16:54]to be more childlike and think about what it's like
[16:57]to be a kid, you see them change their demeanor change,
[17:01]their posture changes, the lights in their eyes turn on,
[17:04]like they come back to a place that they forgot
[17:08]but that was still there.
[17:10]And afterwards the conversations, you know,
[17:13]with people were always about,
[17:18]oh, I remember playing like this when I was,
[17:19]oh, I used to draw like this when I was a kid.
[17:21]I used to, and there was this beautiful energy
[17:25]that we all had and shared together
[17:28]when we would talk about what it was like to be a kid.
[17:30]And I would see people that were maybe a little cold
[17:33]or distant suddenly warm up and we were connected.
[17:37]And so I wrote this story that I originally just wrote it
[17:41]to share with a room full of teachers.
[17:44]And I shared this story of this girl who could fly
[17:48]and then her dad's afraid that he's gonna mess it up.
[17:51]And so he hides her floating.
[17:53]He doesn't want anybody to make fun of her.
[17:56]He doesn't want anybody to see it.
[17:57]And then she stops flying and then there's this sadness.
[18:01]And then as she ages, then how does she get that back?
[18:05]How does she reclaim that?
[18:07]And it was this big reminder,
[18:09]I wanted all those teachers in the room
[18:11]to know that they are people who fly and help others fly.
[18:15]They are doing what we're all here to do,
[18:18]is to fly ourselves and then take other people along
[18:22]with us and remind them of their lightness,
[18:24]remind them of what they're capable of,
[18:26]that their classrooms are homes.
[18:29]All of our places are not buildings.
[18:31]They're runways, they're places in which we were meant
[18:35]to fly together.
[18:37]Wow, that's so beautiful.
[18:39]It's definitely the first do-no-harm philosophy
[18:42]of parenting that your kids are not perfectly skilled.
[18:46]Yeah, exactly, you know.
[18:48]I feel like the older I get, the more I'm realizing
[18:50]that I have very little to do with how my kids are turning out.
[18:53]And you know, though they reflect us in so many ways.
[18:59]That we swap seats a lot of times in who's teaching.
[19:03]And that's one of the great gifts that I'm learning
[19:07]to accept now is all the ways that they're helping me fly
[19:11]and reminding me of what is good about me.
[19:16]And also what needs some work.
[19:20]So after you went on your listening tour
[19:22]and you had all this information and data and quotes
[19:25]and all the stuff that was in your head
[19:27]from what you gathered,
[19:28]how did you go about writing the book
[19:30]and making it such a creative,
[19:33]I want to say manuscript, but it's not.
[19:34]It's like a work of art because it's illustration
[19:37]and children's book and little pictures
[19:39]you can photograph, input on your fridge and story
[19:43]and insight.
[19:43]So it's a really unique end product.
[19:47]What, how did you visualize that?
[19:49]And how did you put it all together?
[19:50]How did you write it?
[19:51]Yeah, well, thanks for saying that.
[19:54]I think it went through a thousand's of drafts
[19:58]in which, you know, it was the.
[20:00]There's an attempt to write a very serious business-y type book.
[20:03]And they're like, this is a disaster.
[20:05]It was a small, just little,
[20:09]it was just the floating girl story.
[20:11]And then yet, when I would share the story live,
[20:14]I would always have these other things I wanted to share.
[20:18]And then I just said, okay, let me start backwards.
[20:21]I'm gonna work backwards here.
[20:23]What's the end goal?
[20:25]And I started to think about literal faces
[20:28]of people that I care about,
[20:30]that are around kids that I care about.
[20:33]And just thought, I want them to remember
[20:37]what it's like to fly
[20:38]and what they're capable of helping other people fly.
[20:42]And so then that started to inform
[20:45]what I wanted the book to even feel like
[20:47]and look like that.
[20:48]I wanted to feel like a board book.
[20:50]I had to give little moments of a little hint
[20:54]of what it felt like to hold a book when you're a kid
[20:56]and it'd be yours.
[20:58]But then it have pictures
[21:00]that would feel like a kid's just playing
[21:03]and sending little doodles in the margins.
[21:06]So that would bring you back
[21:07]to maybe some of the earliest books you read,
[21:10]but at the same time, speak to who you are now.
[21:13]So that was the desire.
[21:16]And it's one of those things
[21:18]that I've been encouraging people who want to write
[21:21]to let them know that I never felt worthy
[21:26]of this project.
[21:28]Never felt worthy of the message.
[21:32]And yet it had to be done.
[21:34]And I feel like it is a message in a bottle from me
[21:40]that that's what this book is.
[21:42]And I hope it inspires other people
[21:45]to do the same thing
[21:47]and with their own fingerprints
[21:49]of create something that will be a beauty.
[21:52]But my struggle was that I know what I want this to be.
[21:55]I know what I wanted to feel like,
[21:56]but I don't have the capacity to do it as well as I want.
[22:00]And so that also puts a little seed of desire
[22:04]in my own self to, okay, now the next time
[22:08]I want to get it right when I get it even better.
[22:12]You are so down on yourself.
[22:13]I want to like get higher you a therapist
[22:16]to like build up yourself as team.
[22:18]This is crazy.
[22:20]Yeah, I will say that my counselor has been
[22:25]a real in the journey of helping me process
[22:31]what the work is, what the work is that I want to do
[22:35]in the world, how I want to show up.
[22:36]And there's actually a deleted chapter in the book
[22:40]that I want to do as a live show,
[22:43]as a thing that is about going to my counselor
[22:47]in the midst of this,
[22:49]because I was in this depression
[22:50]and then started visiting schools.
[22:53]And at the same time I was going to counseling.
[22:55]So there's a chapter.
[22:57]And what my wonderful counselor did is she gave me
[23:01]a copy of the velvety rabbit.
[23:04]And she said, here, you need this.
[23:07]This is the book you need to read.
[23:09]And I was like, I've read it.
[23:10]I read it as a kid, I remember it.
[23:11]I loved it.
[23:12]I don't need to read it.
[23:14]And then I finally sat down and read it.
[23:16]And it did everything for me that I wanted this book
[23:22]to do for people, reminding me what it is to be real,
[23:27]to be a value, to already be a real rabbit.
[23:32]I have not read the velvety rabbit.
[23:36]I don't even think I've read it to my kids.
[23:38]I feel like I got lost in the pile of other books
[23:43]that I was reading and I have to pull that out.
[23:45]I must have a copy from when I was little somewhere
[23:48]to ask my mom.
[23:49]It more than holds up.
[23:51]And there's actually some beautiful versions of it
[23:53]that I love and I've tried to find as many as I can.
[23:57]One thing that's interesting about when you read it
[23:59]with kids now is so much of it is dated.
[24:03]And a kid doesn't know what's velvety.
[24:05]Like, what is that type of cheese?
[24:07]This idea of him getting very sick
[24:10]and having to burn the toys is terrifying.
[24:14]But they may not get all the contacts at all
[24:17]but the emotion is very real and it's timeless.
[24:22]And the end in that story is one of beauty and sadness
[24:28]and really just what it is to be a person.
[24:30]Wow, that's so nice.
[24:32]Or rabbit.
[24:32]Or rabbit, yeah.
[24:35]Yeah, somehow Easter has come and gone,
[24:37]which is my son who's obsessed with despite that.
[24:40]We don't celebrate Easter, but it's okay.
[24:41]We have like Easter stuff everywhere now.
[24:43]So I'll have to pull out another bunny book.
[24:45]It's perfect.
[24:46]Tell me about partnering with the university,
[24:50]with Tennessee State University
[24:52]to curate free resources.
[24:54]You're like spreading the message far and wide.
[24:56]How did you come up with that idea?
[24:58]Well, when I was doing kid president videos,
[25:01]I was stunned when teachers started using them in classrooms.
[25:05]I thought, why would you do that?
[25:08]Why would kids take out of faith?
[25:10]Be a value to you in learning.
[25:12]Like, this is lazy, isn't it?
[25:15]And then they would open up about,
[25:16]oh, well, actually it helps us show this to kids.
[25:19]It helps us start conversations about this.
[25:21]And then my imagination went wild.
[25:24]And so for a large part of the videos we made,
[25:28]they were made with me constantly calling up fourth grade
[25:32]teachers and being like, okay, does this make sense?
[25:34]What about this?
[25:35]What are you trying to communicate
[25:37]that I can help you do in a playful way?
[25:41]And so the in that to kind of be Alfred
[25:47]to teachers Batman was the idea.
[25:50]How could we just say, oh, here's this.
[25:52]Now, go, go save the world.
[25:55]And then partnering with these,
[25:57]there's a team of educators that's called ITech.
[26:00]And it's this really brilliant lab,
[26:03]full of professional educators
[26:05]who are helping equip teachers
[26:07]and also parents, anyone who works with kids
[26:10]to have big conversations to work through big ideas
[26:14]to do it in an engaging way.
[26:16]And so they have believed in my work
[26:20]and the every little thing that we do on Instagram,
[26:22]everything and have been,
[26:24]how can we find a way to let this be a spark
[26:28]for even more learning?
[26:29]And they took the book and they took every single chapter
[26:33]and pulled out nuggets and projects.
[26:36]So they did two guides that are free,
[26:39]that are available connected to the book.
[26:41]One is for classrooms or for kids.
[26:44]And the other one is for adults.
[26:45]And for any commerce,
[26:46]like if you wanted to have a book club
[26:48]or wanted to get your employees together, however,
[26:52]and already that has been even more rewarding
[26:56]than the book itself.
[26:57]All of the people who have said they've read the book
[27:01]and it meant something that is incredible.
[27:04]But now they're taking these,
[27:06]if you go to wondersparks.com
[27:08]so that you can download the free resources.
[27:10]But people are creating projects with their kids,
[27:13]alongside them, there's a part in the book with a map.
[27:15]And they've been making their own maps as a family.
[27:19]People have been doing things in the midst of this quarantine
[27:22]time where they are thinking about,
[27:25]okay, we've got this backpack full of unessential things.
[27:28]What are we gonna take out from this?
[27:30]And just, it's one thing to create something.
[27:34]It's so much more rewarding to create something
[27:36]and have other people create even better things from it.
[27:40]It's generative art.
[27:41]And so now I'm addicted.
[27:44]Now that's what I wanna make,
[27:45]things that make more things.
[27:48]So how are you gonna do that?
[27:49]So what does that mean?
[27:50]That's on my list of things to do
[27:51]is produce generative art that will change the world.
[27:54]So how do you get up in the morning
[27:56]and start to get to work, start cracking away at that?
[27:59]I think that's the homework.
[28:02]That's going, it's not all about me.
[28:05]Instead now it's all about how can I create something
[28:09]that's honest and that is from me that was helpful to me.
[28:13]But that might inspire someone else to take it even further.
[28:17]One example of that is we started a project called Socktober.
[28:22]And so the idea we found out that our local shelter,
[28:25]one of their most needed items,
[28:27]at least donated items, was socks.
[28:30]Right as people are preparing for winter.
[28:31]happens to be in October for us around here in Tennessee.
[28:35]So we declared the month of October, Socktober.
[28:38]And people began to collect items that our shelter needed.
[28:43]Well then the next year it went on
[28:45]and other people started doing it for their shelters.
[28:47]And then I had started kid president
[28:49]and I said, well, what if kid president declared
[28:52]at Socktober, let's just see what happened.
[28:54]And at first I thought, well, we need rules in place
[28:57]and we need a central office.
[28:59]You know, some rewards or prizes that people,
[29:03]and I thought, no, I'm gonna have faith in people.
[29:06]I'm just gonna say, hey, here's something good you could do.
[29:10]And let's see what happens.
[29:11]And now we are close to what this is maybe the ninth year
[29:16]and it is in all 50 states on every single continent,
[29:20]every year.
[29:21]Even in months that aren't October,
[29:23]people are doing Socktober,
[29:25]they're creating some sort of project
[29:27]that is in that same spirit and it just blows my mind.
[29:33]And I was on an airplane and this guy beside me asked
[29:37]what I did and I said, oh, I make silly videos
[29:39]on the internet and they're about kids
[29:42]and grown-ups working together.
[29:44]And then he said, oh, that's really neat.
[29:46]You need to check this out.
[29:48]My daughter, their school does this project
[29:50]called Socktober and he showed me a picture of him
[29:54]with his daughters, they had gone to their shelter.
[29:57]He had never been to the shelter,
[29:58]they found out what they needed.
[30:00]And I just was stunned and I wanted to tell him, that was my idea.
[30:04]You did and tell him?
[30:06]Well, I sat there with my hands under my legs
[30:09]and just was stunned and just went, that's really cool.
[30:14]Oh my gosh.
[30:16]And the whole plane ride just up there in the sky thinking,
[30:21]what, what in the world?
[30:24]And it was this really profound moment of thinking,
[30:27]you know, maybe it doesn't matter who gets to credit.
[30:32]Maybe it just matters that it happens.
[30:35]And when you're obsessed with that, that leads to bigger places.
[30:41]And it can be frustrating in a time on the internet
[30:45]when your ideas get passed around all the time
[30:48]and co-opted and turned into other things that I've had
[30:52]art that brands have turned into giant campaigns
[30:56]and things, you know, without my signature,
[30:59]but that obsession with having them see and notice
[31:04]that I did that is not helpful.
[31:07]Instead, if I just keep doing the work
[31:09]and keep putting out the sparks,
[31:11]I just, I'm obsessed with the good happening.
[31:14]Wow, that is beautiful.
[31:16]That, I mean, that is a beautiful message.
[31:19]I was like, great, that is my full culture,
[31:21]this episode, right there, that was perfect.
[31:24]Because I want to write it down right now and remember it.
[31:27]That's really, I mean, that's really generous
[31:28]of spirit of you and not many people.
[31:31]Well, I shouldn't say that, hopefully many people
[31:33]would share it, but I don't know.
[31:36]It's really great.
[31:37]So are you working on anything now, mid pandemic,
[31:41]that's really exciting you or getting you through each day
[31:44]or something that is really inspiring?
[31:47]Yeah, there's a couple of things that we've been able
[31:49]to stay focused on.
[31:51]My wife and I are working on a picture book together
[31:54]that we're excited about.
[31:55]But then in the midst of that too,
[31:57]we got to a partner with this group
[31:59]that's a team that works with healthcare workers year round.
[32:03]And normally I do events with them, but that's not happening.
[32:06]And so they created a help hero hotline.
[32:10]And we got to work with them to where it's a toll free number
[32:14]that people can call to just say thank you.
[32:17]And so they've been piping in these messages
[32:19]that are encouraging to healthcare workers.
[32:22]And it's an 800 number, it's 877-226-hero.
[32:27]You can call that number.
[32:28]You leave a message to say and thank you to people
[32:31]that are on the front lines of this crisis.
[32:34]And so some of the healthcare workers are like,
[32:37]their offices are giving these to their employees
[32:40]to listen to it on the way to work
[32:41]or as they get ready.
[32:42]It's like a rallying moment, a point to think about, okay,
[32:46]we're going in, we're not alone, people see us,
[32:48]people are cheering us on, there's the whole love are me.
[32:52]And that's been really a fun project,
[32:55]life-giving children have been calling it,
[32:59]families, elderly people that are just like,
[33:01]there's nothing else I can do than tell you, thank you.
[33:05]But one little girl called in to say,
[33:07]I wanna be a nurse when I grow up.
[33:09]And so just keep going and just think about
[33:13]what a cool message that would be to hear
[33:16]and a reminder that one day there's kids
[33:19]that are looking at you saying I wanna be you.
[33:22]So it's amazing, wow.
[33:24]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[33:27]I would say that what has been helpful to me
[33:31]and was confusing to me was there's a musician
[33:35]that I really liked, he was a punk musician, Jonathan Richmond
[33:38]and he had this band, the modern lovers
[33:41]and did all this just really creative work
[33:44]and that happened to be able to meet him
[33:47]several years back, I was right out of college
[33:49]and I was so excited to talk to him
[33:52]and he'd written so many great songs
[33:54]and I said, what do you have any advice for young artists?
[33:58]And he just said, say something true, man.
[34:01]And I thought, oh, come on.
[34:04]I was wanting something better, something rebellious,
[34:07]something, you know, what, and that stuck in my head
[34:13]and the more that I think you do question your own self
[34:17]of what is true, what is the truest thing I could say right now
[34:22]that will lead you to a place of wildly creative work
[34:26]that will be timely and timeless always.
[34:30]That's awesome, I love that advice.
[34:32]Brad, thank you so much for coming on my podcast
[34:35]and also doing my Instagram live a few weeks ago
[34:37]and for this, I was so excited, I was so excited to talk to you.
[34:41]Oh, you too, you were such a nice guy
[34:43]and I wish that I was like, I could give you a hug,
[34:46]and I feel like this warm toward you
[34:47]and I just, I'm so grateful for their be good people.
[34:50]I'm so grateful for my far from afar.
[34:52]We'll find lots of excuses to dream up
[34:55]and team up in the future.
[34:56]What do you mean matters so much?
[34:58]And cheers to you and all your listeners.
[35:00]Thank you, thanks, Brad.
[35:02]Have a great day.
[35:03]Okay, bye bye.
[35:05]Thanks again for listening to my podcast.
[35:06]Moms don't have time to read books.
[35:08]If you liked this episode, please follow me on Instagram
[35:12]at Zibi Owens and at Moms don't have time to read books
[35:15]and sign up for my mailing list at Zibi Owens.com
[35:18]so you can always hear about the latest things I'm up to.
[35:21]Thanks a lot.
[35:22]Today's episode's been sponsored by Bylitzer Blue,
[35:25]the organic small batch skincare company
[35:27]that's giving back to women in treatment for breast cancer.
[35:30]Use code Zibi20 for 20% off by LitzerBlueSkincare.com.
[35:34]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[35:37]for the sound editing and thank you
[35:39]to Morning Moon Productions
[35:40]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[35:43]Thanks for listening, you can always email me
[35:44]at ZibiAtZibi Owens.com.