Lily King, WRITERS & LOVERS
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[3:40]to number 926-848 and text ZIBBY, capital Z, or go to stylust.com and try it out. And let me know
[3:47]what you think. I loved my conversation with Lily King, which I did via Instagram Live on my ZIGTV channel
[3:54]at ZIBBY Owens. And I did this in conjunction with the Montclair Literary Festival. Lily was
[3:59]supposed to be a speaker there. I was supposed to participate and it got canceled for everything these
[4:04]days. Lily King's book, Writers and Lovers was so good. I could not put it down. It kept me up late
[4:10]two nights in a row, which is very rare for me. Lily is the author of Five Award-winning novels.
[4:14]Her most recent is Writers and Lovers, which I just mentioned. Her 2014 novel Euphoria,
[4:19]won the Kirkus Award, the New England Book Award, the main fiction award, and was a finalist for
[4:24]the National Book Critics Award and more like top 10 books and New York Times. I can't even keep
[4:28]reading it so many things. And then her latest book Writers and Lovers has been the read with
[4:34]Jenna Bookpick, a New York Times bestseller, and on everybody's list of what book you need to
[4:39]be reading. It was also a Bellatry's Book Club pick. And mine. Listen to our episode. I had the best time
[4:46]talking to her and I'm sure you'll love listening to her. Hi. How are you? I'm good. How are you?
[4:52]I am like, I am so in love with your book. I like read every word. I hung on every word. I
[4:59]loved it. It kept me up two nights in a row. It was so good. So I just had to put that out there.
[5:06]Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun.
[5:10]That's my pleasure. I'm sorry that the Montclair Literary Festival was canceled along with
[5:15]everything else, but I love that you'll be able to make an appearance when it resumes.
[5:19]I hope so. I really hope so. Yeah. How are you? I'm great. Thank you. Oh, good. Good.
[5:27]So I mistakenly probably feel like I know you because I'm thinking that you're putting some of
[5:32]yourself into the character in your book, which you may or may not be doing. So I need to know
[5:37]like what is you and what is not the first for people. Would you mind letting everybody know
[5:45]what your book is about and what inspired you to write it? Yes. The book is about 31 year old
[5:50]Casey who has, it is 1997 and she's arrived in Cambridge, Massachusetts. And she works at a,
[5:59]she's gotten a job at a restaurant. She's gotten a terrible place to live, a little
[6:04]room at the side of a garage. And she's $70,000 in debt. She's trying to write her first novel.
[6:10]She's just had her heart badly broken and a few months earlier her mother died.
[6:15]So she's a bit of a mess. And she's trying to, you know, at age 31, trying to figure out
[6:24]how to find the rest of her life. You know, how to put a life together that looks like a grown-up
[6:29]life, but that that doesn't mean that she has to lose her dream of becoming a writer.
[6:36]And so this is not your first book. Euphoria already came out and what you've already had. Every
[6:40]book has had critical acclaim and everything. My fifth, yeah, I think so. I was going to say
[6:47]fifth, but I am always afraid of being wrong. So, you know, better safe than sorry if you can't
[6:52]remember that I don't feel as bad. But anyway, I ran around for like the first couple of months when
[6:57]I was doing pre-pub stuff saying it was my sixth book. And then I realized, no, it was my fifth.
[7:03]They seem long. They take a long time to write. How long did this book take to write and how
[7:13]how did it compare to the process for your other books? You know, I'm somewhere between four and
[7:17]six years between books. I blame it on my children. But the fact is my first one took, you know,
[7:22]nine years probably from start to finish to to pub date. And this one, this one actually
[7:28]was fast to write. It's just that I wrote, I started researching and then writing two other books
[7:34]before I started this one. So that's why this one took six years between books because two of them
[7:40]are failure. Yeah. Wait, I clumped in this book how when you were dropping, not you. When your
[7:45]character was dropping, the manuscript after the post office and you were trying to tell, she was
[7:50]trying to tell the postal worker, you know, I've worked for six years on this. And she said,
[7:54]I hope your next six years are a little more exciting. I feel like that's kind of like a feeling
[8:06]that I that I have gotten in my life, you know, along with all the other feelings in the book,
[8:10]you know, like a lot of everybody has a different response to somebody who's writing their first novel,
[8:15]you know, there are so many different ways you can see it, you know. And a lot of them are not,
[8:22]they don't feel when you're doing it yourself. They don't feel right positive, right. And when you
[8:28]said to the gynecologist when he said, so you're going to write the great, not you, your character,
[8:33]when she said, so you're going to write the great American novel and your character, it was like,
[8:36]oh, are you going to cure a variant cancer? She was like, you shake. There were so many, like,
[8:43]just little gems in there about the pressure of just because you're an author doesn't have to be
[8:49]the great American novel. Any other job is pointed out in this book doesn't come with so much
[8:55]baggage, right? Exactly. It's so true. And that line, the great American novel is really something,
[9:03]you know, that you hear a lot, you know, when you say you're a writer. And you know, it's definitely
[9:09]like, it's definitely a way for people to say without actually saying it, who the hell you think
[9:15]you are? What do you think you're going to do? What, like, why would you waste your time on that?
[9:20]You know, obviously, you're not Fitzgerald. You're not having way, you know, that's right. That's
[9:25]you know, you can't help it. But hear that. I just remember the sort of cynicism that came back at
[9:32]me a little, a good bit, you know, as a young woman in the 90s trying to write a novel.
[9:40]Did anyone know that I had a voice that I called in anyone? Nobody could ever tell me anything
[9:44]that, you know, I was the most cynical of all. I never thought that I would actually
[9:49]publish the novel I was writing. So I shared it, you know, did anyone actually say to you the way
[9:56]that Adam and the book did, you know, what I can't believe you've been having.
[10:00]Anything to say?
[10:00]Like, what makes you think that?
[10:03]Someone said that to you?
[10:04]Yeah.
[10:05]Exactly.
[10:06]Like, I think we're a beta.
[10:08]And I never forgot it.
[10:10]Don't you want to just take your book
[10:11]and like, slim it in their face right now?
[10:13]Yeah.
[10:15]No, no.
[10:16]No, I'm kidding.
[10:17]I'm kidding.
[10:18]We wouldn't do that.
[10:19]No, I'm kidding.
[10:20]I'm just saying like, you know, you weren't so hard.
[10:21]And yeah, no reason.
[10:23]I mean, the reason I wouldn't is just because
[10:25]that person I think was a very frustrated writer
[10:29]and had big, you know, would have liked
[10:33]to have written a novel, but had that critical voice
[10:37]in his head, you know, that he was delivering to me that day,
[10:41]you know, saying, you're not good enough.
[10:43]You don't have anything to say, sort of thing.
[10:45]And I didn't really understand that then,
[10:48]but I definitely understand that now.
[10:50]Yeah.
[10:51]I mean, it's like most insults,
[10:53]they come from the other person's place of insecurity.
[10:55]It's not really usually about you.
[10:58]It doesn't make it feel any, no, it's a time.
[11:01]No, it doesn't at all.
[11:03]Especially when you feel like you're so happy for yourself,
[11:06]you know, happy to do push past all of that negativity.
[11:12]Like when you were starting out, like let's go back
[11:14]not to this product, all the way back
[11:17]when you were writing your first novel.
[11:19]How did you like, how did you just fortify yourself
[11:22]to keep going and not succumb to those negative messages?
[11:26]I definitely succumbed, you know,
[11:28]but I just, I think you get to a certain point
[11:33]in a novel where you can't give up.
[11:38]You know, like you have to finish no matter how you feel
[11:42]about it, no matter, you know, you know,
[11:45]what you feel about your bank account or anything.
[11:48]It's like, this is my only way to get to the other side here.
[11:52]And so I definitely remember that.
[11:55]And I remember, you know, years of feeling really discouraged
[12:00]and full, like Casey, full of anxiety and fear
[12:04]and, you know, incredible doubt.
[12:06]And really, I mean, I wasn't good at anything else.
[12:09]I mean, I didn't even really think I was good at writing,
[12:11]but it was the only thing that I'd ever gotten
[12:14]any positive feedback for.
[12:15]So like all my eggs were in this basket and that was it.
[12:19]It wasn't like I could do anything else.
[12:22]And so I just had it, I had to keep going.
[12:25]Wow. So what happened?
[12:26]Tell me the story of when you've published your first book.
[12:29]Was it similar to Casey's experience in this book?
[12:33]It was a little similar in that I also sent out
[12:37]to a ton of agents and got a ton of rejections.
[12:41]And then finally got an agent in New York
[12:44]I really liked and I went down to New York to meet her.
[12:49]And I was really worried that she was going to say,
[12:51]because you'd already had me do a revision.
[12:54]And I was worried that she was going to say,
[12:55]do another revision, but she got out this note pad at lunch
[12:58]and she said, so where do you want to send it?
[13:00]And that was like, that was really one
[13:02]of the most exciting moments of my career
[13:05]would just seeing that little yellow note pad come out.
[13:08]I had, I mean, I had no idea where to send it.
[13:10]Like I didn't know any editors.
[13:13]I knew one editor, actually.
[13:14]I knew two.
[13:16]And one of them, I had known one of them
[13:19]when I was 15, island that my stepfather had a house on.
[13:25]But I just didn't think that she would be interested
[13:29]in my work and then I had another editor friend
[13:34]who I'd waited tables with in college.
[13:37]And she had become an editor.
[13:38]And that was it.
[13:39]But fortunately, my agent had a lot of other ideas.
[13:43]We went down the whole list and then within a week
[13:47]or maybe even four days of her sending it out,
[13:50]I had my first offer, really, my first interest.
[13:54]And I remember having lunch with my boyfriend
[13:57]then who is now my husband going out to lunch
[14:00]and realizing like I had one person who was interested
[14:04]and realizing that this actually could get published.
[14:07]And then there were four other editors
[14:09]who were interested and there was an auction
[14:11]and it was all blissful after that.
[14:15]So it did, you know, it kind of in a similar way.
[14:19]And in fact, I was also working in a high school
[14:22]at the time.
[14:23]Actually, my contract was under negotiation
[14:25]for the next year and the head of school
[14:27]was kind of holding out and not letting me know
[14:30]whether it was going to be renewed or not
[14:31]because he was, I don't know, trying to figure out
[14:33]a bunch of things and we were in faculty meetings
[14:36]at the end of the year.
[14:37]And I kept on having to leave to take these phone calls.
[14:40]And it was the only thing that got me through
[14:42]because I loved that job.
[14:43]I really wanted my contract renewed
[14:45]and they were not telling me.
[14:48]And this was the only thing that was like,
[14:49]well, you know, I got something else going here.
[14:52]So, okay, if you don't hire me again,
[14:55]but they did hire me again.
[14:56]So that was good.
[14:57]Okay.
[14:58]And you kept your position even after the book deal?
[15:02]I did, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that job.
[15:04]But then I got pregnant.
[15:05]The next year I got pregnant
[15:07]and then it was too much to handle all three.
[15:09]So I gave up the teaching job that I love so much.
[15:14]There's always time.
[15:15]You could always go back.
[15:16]Yeah, exactly, exactly.
[15:18]Earlier in our conversation a few minutes ago,
[15:20]you mentioned that you blame your kids
[15:22]for your slow, what you call slow,
[15:24]which I don't think is so slow.
[15:25]But anyway, your output time for your books now
[15:29]tell me about how you manage sort of family and writing
[15:33]and when you do the writing
[15:34]and how you just like do your whole life, basically.
[15:37]Yeah.
[15:38]All right, first of all, I have to take that back
[15:39]because I feel like my in a lot of ways my kids
[15:42]have made me much more focused.
[15:44]And if I had a lot more time, I would fritter it away.
[15:49]And so they helped me early on to just take the time
[15:53]that I had and write faster and, you know,
[15:56]and so I think I would be even a slower.
[15:58]I was to say I would even have written another novel
[16:00]if I had the kids, I'm not sure.
[16:02]And now, you know, they're 19 and 21.
[16:05]I would say I was an empty nester,
[16:07]but, you know, no one with kids my age is an empty nester
[16:10]anymore.
[16:11]And so when I look, which I love,
[16:13]I mean, I have to say I feel terrible for them,
[16:15]but I love having them home now.
[16:18]And I'm getting much less work done.
[16:19]Let me tell you, much less.
[16:21]I just love seeing them to the breakfast.
[16:22]I love seeing them lunge.
[16:24]It was terrible.
[16:26]But, you know, when they were, when they were really little,
[16:28]I remember when my oldest one was six months.
[16:31]I got my first babysitter.
[16:33]And I think I had her for like three hours a week.
[16:35]I felt so guilty about it.
[16:37]And then slowly, I grew, you know,
[16:39]to maybe three hours, three times a week sort of thing.
[16:43]And it was really those first years
[16:46]when they weren't in school.
[16:47]Once they go to school, you're home free, you know?
[16:50]But when they're not in school,
[16:51]that was really hard.
[16:53]And I had a lot of neglect by my parents when I was a child.
[16:59]And so I really wanted to be there for my kids.
[17:02]And I was really, really conflicted
[17:04]about how to be there and also write books.
[17:07]And so, you know, in the margins of many of my new books
[17:11]that I write by hand.
[17:12]And there's all this math.
[17:14]We like, there's, you know,
[17:15]how many hours are they awake during one week?
[17:19]And how many hours do I have a babysitter?
[17:22]You know, it would be like 72 hours awake for a week.
[17:26]And 15 hours of babysitter.
[17:28]Is that okay?
[17:29]Like, you know, is that an okay balance?
[17:31]I have to kind of give myself permission every week
[17:34]to like go ahead and try to keep writing.
[17:37]So it was tough.
[17:39]And let me just say, here I am complaining about that.
[17:42]And I did not have a job outside in the house.
[17:43]Like, I was so lucky that I was only writing novels, you know?
[17:48]And I don't know.
[17:49]I mean, I was teaching a little bit,
[17:51]but like here and there, small gigs, nothing huge.
[17:56]So I really can't complain.
[17:57]I'm not even somebody who can talk about that kind of thing.
[18:01]That a lot of new parents think that being a good parent
[18:05]is the amount of time they're spending with kids.
[18:08]If you have the luxury of doing that
[18:09]or if you can, you know, work from home or whatever else.
[18:12]And then I think as everybody gets older,
[18:15]you realize that's completely not true.
[18:17]I don't know.
[18:18]But the pressure that new parents I think put on themselves
[18:20]is really astounding.
[18:22]Like, I know there's some correlation between good parenting
[18:25]and the minutes you spend on the floor with them
[18:27]or something.
[18:28]I know.
[18:29]So true.
[18:30]It's so true.
[18:31]And I really, I think a lot of that was just, you know,
[18:34]weird thoughts that I had about my own childhood.
[18:38]And you're always trying to correct for your own childhood.
[18:41]And you over-correct and crazy ways, you know.
[18:45]So my kids are still paying for.
[18:49]Are you comfortable talking more about your childhood
[18:51]and what type of neglect or what the children are?
[18:55]Yeah, I mean, it seems good.
[18:57]I think, so I was, I'm the third of three kids.
[19:01]And my brother and sister are much older than me,
[19:03]eight years and six years older than me.
[19:05]And my mother was getting ready to leave my father, you know.
[19:09]I think they were, I know that they had sort of
[19:11]separated within the house.
[19:13]But I think that there was a big physical attraction
[19:16]between them, even though they really,
[19:18]really didn't like each other.
[19:19]And I arrived right when my mother wanted to leave my father.
[19:25]She got pregnant with me.
[19:26]And she stayed for another 11 years.
[19:28]And I think she was extremely unhappy.
[19:32]And I think she found, first she found the church in our town.
[19:37]And she spent a lot of time volunteering.
[19:39]And then she found politics.
[19:41]And because the minister at the church
[19:42]was extremely liberal and political.
[19:45]And then she was gone.
[19:47]Like she just fell in love with, you know,
[19:51]left-wing politics and volunteered all the time.
[19:54]She was basically learning how to,
[19:56]she didn't even have a college degree.
[19:58]And she had married my mother when she went.
[20:00]father when she was 19 and she was just really trying to get work experience and so she just
[20:06]wasn't home a lot and I had a babysitter and my father was a very very very bad alcoholic by that
[20:11]time so he was you know kind of checked out even when he wasn't drunk you know he was just in that
[20:17]alcoholic phase of his life where he's sort of emotionally unreachable and volatile.
[20:25]So it was it wasn't a great combination but my mother did finally leave and then I felt like
[20:30]I kind of got her back you know we we got an apartment together and then I had these years with her
[20:35]that were really really special and she was extremely happy and it was really great for me to see
[20:41]and what what about your older brother and sister during that time what kind of role did they play
[20:45]with you? You know they had gone to boarding school so when I was in kindergarten first grade they
[20:50]were gone you know by the time yeah by the time I guess my brother was there for first grade
[20:55]and then so my second grade they were out of the house and they knew it was on a happy household
[21:00]and it was the late 60s early 70s and you know they were they were really hippies and they were
[21:08]gone you know they had sort of put the bird to the older generation and you know I just didn't
[21:15]see them a whole lot and how about now are you in touch with them or yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
[21:20]we became we became very close when I became an adult yeah I think I'm asking out of like selfishness
[21:26]because I have kids who have that same age gap with younger ones and then it's not your gap
[21:31]so now like we'll be yeah ever you know be friends with their older and all that so anyway
[21:36]yeah yeah I'm always interested in those dynamics between siblings and everything well having
[21:41]grown up in that type of environment did you turn to writing early is that like a coping mechanism
[21:47]you developed or was that did that come later like how did you cope or did you read a lot or or neither
[21:52]yeah I read a lot and I do think it was coping mechanism although you know of course it didn't
[21:57]feel like it at the time I just I just loved I just I just did love writing we didn't have you
[22:04]know I don't know if it was the same for you but we didn't have in grammar school creative writing
[22:10]assignments or anything like that so I never ever I only did book reports you know I read books
[22:15]I wrote book reports you know we didn't ever do anything creative ever not a poem not a and so then
[22:21]when I got to high school I had a teacher who who had a straight short story and that was it you
[22:26]know he actually handed the short story back to me he's like I teach at a creative writing class to
[22:31]juniors and seniors you should take that you know when you when you're a junior and so I just waited
[22:36]for that and and that you know and then we had to those classes we had to write a three and a half
[22:42]page short story every single Monday morning have it on this desk and so that was really really
[22:46]good training really early on for me you know but yeah I think it was I think it was a coping
[22:53]mechanism and I did end up pouring a lot of kind of my teenage angst into my stories and stuff
[22:58]and writers and lovers you talk about well when when Casey is trying to get through some
[23:03]tough scenes she talks about how she has to just go to that place that you almost can't bear
[23:08]to think about and then put that on the page do you feel like you went through that same exercise
[23:13]yeah yeah I do I do I mean it's never really hard I think to want to put those hard things on the
[23:22]page you know it's always been sort of an instinct for me and to not to not hold back and I think
[23:29]I think a lot of people have things that they want to write about but they're too scared because
[23:34]they don't want to hurt people or they don't I don't know they they yeah they just they don't
[23:40]they all they can think about is how other people are going to read it you know for whatever
[23:44]reasons and I don't really have that I'm not really trying to protect other people I'm not trying
[23:51]to protect myself like I for me the most important thing is like getting it down and being as crystal
[23:57]clear as I can about it yeah you also wrote so beautifully about loss in this book and how it
[24:04]feels especially the loss of a parent in the early days and wanting to pick up the phone and call
[24:10]them and forgetting and then remembering and just that whole whirlwind of emotion that a company
[24:17]is great can you talk a little about that and where that came from yeah I you know I basically
[24:24]I think wrote this book so I had a place to put my feelings about my mom when she died
[24:29]she died four years ago and I just completely like Casey's mother completely out of the blue
[24:36]on vacation just my mother was in the South Pacific she left in full health and you know I got a
[24:42]call and then to a it's call saying she was going to a clinic that she had she was fine but her
[24:49]you know her blood pressure was low which is strange and then two hours later she had died
[24:56]and don't even know what happened so anyway the loss of her because we were so close and then
[25:03]the shock of you know and the not saying goodbye and her being so far away all of that I was
[25:09]writing something else at the time and I just I had to stop and I stopped her really long time like
[25:15]probably eight months or something and then when I started writing again this book just came out
[25:20]of me and I and you know that that first paragraph you know like I knew that her mother had died
[25:28]you know in this book and and I was just something I had to find a place to put these feelings
[25:34]and I'd been writing my journal but it wasn't enough you know I needed a any scene and dialogue
[25:39]the whole thing to kind of I don't know get those get those those those deeper sort of sensations
[25:46]and emotions out into some form and probably out of me and onto the page you know so when you do
[25:53]this and it's almost like therapeutic writing really like when you're doing it are you able to take
[25:58]your own experience and like think more analytically and structurally about the story or are you
[26:03]sitting there like sobbing as you're writing oh no I'm totally like you know mercenary
[26:09]dry I just like seeing how it will work in the scene it's very funny how that is and then and then
[26:16]you know there might be a moment like just a moment or a line that really catches me like I you know
[26:22]and I switch over to the grieving daughter instead of the writer but most of the time I'm pretty
[26:30]cold you know in that way like I'm just trying to figure out about you know how to make it work
[26:36]within these parameters and I'm just I'm just pulling you know like I'm just pulling what I need
[26:43]from my life but it's it's a very thin thread you know that I'm adding to a very fictional tapestry
[26:50]you know that I just pull a little something from my life that that seems like the right thread to
[26:55]pull you know but then when you pull the thread and you write it and then and then I can feel
[27:00]kind of moved you know if I if I only if I get it right if I get it wrong I'm not moved at all
[27:08]so I would argue that you moved a lot of people with this book I mean it was emotional and thought
[27:13]provoking I just could not fit this but then just another question about process just to like
[27:19]rounded out when you're doing this mercenary writing and everything how do you like what is your
[27:23]process like and where do you like to write like do you write in this environment behind you
[27:28]anywhere else in student life is this where you write it yeah this is where I study right now
[27:32]I'm here the thing is on my desk leaning against my computer and I actually have my notebook right
[27:38]here one of my notebooks from writer and lover so I always write by hand a whole thing yeah yeah
[27:43]I usually take breaks and put it onto the computer and that's a little bit of a revision process
[27:48]for me but sometimes I can write a whole notebook without stopping to put it on the computer
[27:53]but I really I like this process because you know that first draft on the pay like you know with
[28:00]pencil in the notebook like I I do not I really try not to bring the critic in you know I try to
[28:07]just let my creative self go and not be too judgey as my children would say and I know that you
[28:13]know I have that revision process of getting it onto the computer and so I can pick and choose
[28:19]but I like I like that because I have trouble with the critic being too harsh and so if I'm you
[28:26]know if I just tell myself well this is where you can put anything anything anything and later
[28:31]you can figure out what's good and what's bad because I often find that when you're writing
[28:35]you don't know what's good much bad you know your your critic is skewed it's off and you just need
[28:40]that that creative self to kind of take over and just blurred it all out and then you can shape it
[28:45]later so that's what I like about this process but anyway yeah we're in this space I like to write
[28:50]in the morning I like to write with a cup of tea I have all my little rituals I have to write
[28:55]with like a certain kind of big plastic pen which I'm very embarrassed about it shouldn't be
[29:00]plastic but what I really like so and I don't use many of them for a year yeah so but I think
[29:08]rituals are really important I think it's really important and right at the same time ish you know
[29:14]and I know that whenever I drink a cup of tea wherever I am I will want to write because I'm so you
[29:20]know trained you know like a paddle of dog you know just you know when I drink black tea my fiction
[29:26]brain just starts working you know wow this is the secret ingredient many people are missing
[29:32]only they made tea they'd be able to do it well I don't know about tea I just have to make
[29:38]another plug for tea and that is I read about those like ADHD drugs right that the main ingredient
[29:45]that makes them work is the same is it's the same ingredient that's in black tea so I feel like
[29:51]I have so I like it it laser focuses me that that tea for some reason oh there's so many
[29:56]we're wasting it pharmacies I know it's
[30:00]So what are you working on now?
[30:03]I am contracted for a collection of short stories.
[30:05]And I have about maybe eight of them, possibly 10.
[30:10]And I have more in kind of rough form.
[30:12]And then there's some that I haven't written at all
[30:14]that I really wanna write.
[30:15]So that's what I'm working on right now
[30:16]is a collection of short stories.
[30:17]But I have to say I have not written a word
[30:20]since we've been isolated.
[30:22]And my book came out, you know.
[30:23]And so like I have a lot of these kinds of things.
[30:25]And I find it really hard to be extroverted,
[30:28]even though I'm in my house, in my sweats.
[30:31]I find it hard to be extroverted,
[30:32]and really introverted the kind of introversion
[30:36]that it takes to write a novel.
[30:38]So I'm just kind of on book tour for right now.
[30:41]I know it's not when my editor wants to hear.
[30:43]I hope she's not listening.
[30:44]But I am going to get back to it soon.
[30:45]I swear, you will get there.
[30:48]I am not worried about that.
[30:50]I think this time is really hard for a lot of people
[30:53]to write as what I'm hearing.
[30:54]So yeah, yeah.
[30:55]And are you right, you right, right?
[30:58]I do, not like you, but yes, yeah.
[31:00]I love to write.
[31:00]And have you been writing during this time
[31:02]or have you found it hard?
[31:04]I've been writing a lot of really short things.
[31:06]Like essays that are, you know, but I do have this novel
[31:10]that I've been working on for two years.
[31:12]And I have all these great, I have these great edits
[31:14]that came back from people I really respect and admire
[31:17]and I just cannot get myself to open the document.
[31:19]I just can't.
[31:20]I'm like, I just can't go there right now.
[31:23]So it'll come, I don't know, it'll come.
[31:25]But I totally get that.
[31:26]I'm like that, even without a pandemic.
[31:28]You know, I think that it just sits over there.
[31:32]I have this writer's group.
[31:33]So I get it in manuscript form, you know,
[31:35]and they're just in a big pile.
[31:36]And they just sit there for a long time.
[31:39]I know, I have these notes that I wrote
[31:41]that are just like, yeah, she just get them off my desk
[31:44]but they're just sitting there reminding me
[31:46]and like, time to be like that I should be more productive
[31:48]in this front.
[31:49]But you know, you got to pick and shoot.
[31:50]So otherwise I would have to, time to interview amazing.
[31:53]You want to keep them so this is really fun for me.
[31:55]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[31:57]It's a final question.
[31:58]I think it really is persistence, you know.
[32:01]I mean, I do think that there is no magic apart
[32:06]from just doing it, you know, doing the work.
[32:09]And I think it's really easy.
[32:12]Like I just have made a lot of excuses
[32:13]for why I'm not working right.
[32:15]We all do it, we do it all the time.
[32:17]But if you actually want to write something,
[32:19]you have to stop with the excuses.
[32:22]Everybody has excuses.
[32:23]Everyone has a gazillion reasons why they cannot write.
[32:26]And I just, I think you have to do it anyway.
[32:29]That's, that's the real trick.
[32:31]It's true.
[32:32]Caroline Waxler in the comments is saying,
[32:33]just open the document.
[32:34]Yeah.
[32:35]Because I just have to open the document.
[32:38]Open the document.
[32:39]I mean, exactly.
[32:40]Although I have to say, in that situation, you know,
[32:44]it is good to get a little breathing room
[32:46]between finishing a draft and going back into it.
[32:50]And so if, you know, if you have that a full novel
[32:53]and you're, you're just needing to take a little break,
[32:56]I do think those breaks really help to have a clear eye
[32:59]on things, you know.
[33:01]I also think that like, you know,
[33:03]it is important to replenish
[33:04]when you're feeling really depleted,
[33:06]creativity, creatively, creatively.
[33:08]Creatively.
[33:09]Good.
[33:10]And I have had to do that in many books.
[33:14]Like I just get to a point where I can't go anymore
[33:16]because I feel so drained and depleted.
[33:19]And so then I just read and I like,
[33:21]I'm good to myself for a week
[33:23]and then I go back to it the next week.
[33:24]So you don't have to write every day.
[33:27]Oh, Lily, thank you so much.
[33:31]I'm such a big fan of yours.
[33:33]I am so just happy to have gotten to talk to you about your book
[33:36]and your life.
[33:37]And thank you for sharing with me and everybody.
[33:40]Oh, thank you.
[33:41]Thank you.
[33:42]Thank you so much.
[33:43]This was really, really fun.
[33:45]Okay.
[33:46]Take really good care.
[33:47]Good luck with your document.
[33:48]So thank you.
[33:50]And thank you to the Monster Literary Festival
[33:52]for putting us together.
[33:53]Oh, yes, thank you.
[33:54]Okay. Bye.
[33:56]Okay. Bye.
[33:57]Bye.
[33:58]Thanks again for listening to my podcast.
[33:59]Moms don't have time to read books.
[34:01]If you liked this episode, please follow me on Instagram
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