Meena Harris, KAMALA AND MAYA'S BIG IDEA
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:11]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Thanks so much for listening to my podcast.
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[0:29]Today's episode has been sponsored by Minnie Rose, which is an amazing sweater
[0:34]cashmere company, which I am just obsessed with.
[0:37]It's named after Lisa Goldberg's grandmothers, whose names were Minnie and Rose,
[0:42]the knitwear company Minnie Rose specializes in cashmere of all styles and colors.
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[1:04]And I'm a huge fan.
[1:05]I had so much fun talking to Minna Harris.
[1:08]Minna is the author of Kamala and Maya's big idea, which is based on her aunt and mom, Kamala
[1:14]and Maya Harris, who campaigned to change the playground outside their building when they were kids.
[1:20]Minna is the founder and CEO of the Phenomenal Woman Action Campaign.
[1:25]She is a graduate of Stanford University and Harvard Law School.
[1:28]We had the best time talking, and I hope you enjoy it.
[1:30]Welcome, Minna. Thanks so much for coming on.
[1:32]Mom, don't have time to read books.
[1:34]Thanks for having me.
[1:35]It's my pleasure. My kids and I love your children's book.
[1:40]So great. Oh my gosh.
[1:41]And not only do we like the children's book, but I'm holding up.
[1:45]I know we're on Skype and nobody else can say, but we filled out that Kamala and Maya's big
[1:48]idea of big book of ideas as well, which they loved.
[1:52]Although the big idea that my son wants to work on is that he thinks I've boss him around too much.
[1:58]Oh my gosh, that's too funny.
[2:00]I'm going to have to get his mom to stop telling him what to do.
[2:04]Good luck with that.
[2:06]This is a picture of him looking very sad and me looking happy, like busting him around.
[2:11]Oh, that's so funny.
[2:12]And the tools he needs, because you ask him, you're saying what tools do you need?
[2:16]He thinks that he thinks we need a magnifying glass to solve this problem.
[2:21]That is so good.
[2:23]That's like super quarantine edition, right?
[2:28]Yes, exactly.
[2:30]How do I get my mom to leave me alone?
[2:33]Yeah, I mean, I just told him it was lunchtime, but you know,
[2:35]fucking it for me to really bust him around too much.
[2:38]Oh my gosh, that's too much.
[2:40]Well, thank you for doing the activity book.
[2:42]That's so I love that you guys did it.
[2:44]We wanted to make it, you know, as easy as possible for people to print out and to do
[2:48]it their kids.
[2:48]So I love that you guys actually did it.
[2:50]No, we did it.
[2:51]We have the letter.
[2:52]I'm saving it forever.
[2:53]His letter to me.
[2:55]And actually, no, it was great.
[2:56]And you have letters.
[2:57]And they're also for a hospital and frontline workers.
[2:59]So I had my older daughter do those.
[3:00]So we're going to mail those later.
[3:02]So yeah, so tell everybody what your book is about.
[3:06]And also where they can find the downloaded activity guide and all the rest.
[3:10]Yes, so I'll start with you can find everything at phenomenalgirl.com.
[3:15]It's all there.
[3:16]And we just released the activity book.
[3:18]I guess a couple weeks ago just thinking about, you know, the book is obviously not
[3:23]out yet.
[3:23]But what are ways that we can give something to parents to, you know, engage with their kids.
[3:28]I think everybody is looking for stuff.
[3:31]And there's not even enough stuff out there to occupy as long as you need.
[3:35]So anyway, yeah, it's all on on the website.
[3:38]The book is about two sisters named Kamala in Maya.
[3:42]It's actually based on a true story from the childhood of my mom, Maya and Aunt Kamala.
[3:48]And it's really, you know, it's a story that I heard growing up when I was a kid.
[3:52]And it's really about, you know, two sisters coming together, you know, leaning on their community
[3:58]to solve a problem.
[3:59]It's very basic, right?
[4:01]But it's it's about persevering in the face of, no, it's about community organizing,
[4:07]right, leaning on your neighbors to to make your community better and being creative in
[4:14]problem solving.
[4:15]And so I don't want to get too much away.
[4:16]I know that you've already read it, but what's amazing about it is, you know, through my women's
[4:21]brand phenomenal woman, I spent basically the last three years talking to adult women, right,
[4:26]about, you know, this, this, I guess now era, this moment that we're in post 2016,
[4:32]where I think many people have thought about, you know, what can I do?
[4:34]How can I, how can I speak up?
[4:36]How can I, you know, make an impact in my own community?
[4:40]And I always tell people that it's just about starting somewhere, right?
[4:43]No matter how small and that's really what the story is about.
[4:46]It's the, these two sisters noticing something in their apartment complex that they want to
[4:51]change and they decide to go for it and to pursue their big idea.
[4:56]And they figure out, you know, what are the, the tools that they need to, to make that happen
[5:00]similar to the activity book, right?
[5:02]Where do you need help from?
[5:04]How do you get that help?
[5:05]How do you, you know, get creative when you have adults telling you you're too small or it's too
[5:10]expensive, right?
[5:11]Or you can't do it.
[5:13]And it's, I think a great story that all of us can learn from adults and children.
[5:18]And it's also just about, you know, having two strong independent girls as main characters.
[5:24]Part of the inspiration for me not only was sort of memorializing this family story that inspired me.
[5:30]When I was growing up for my own children and for, you know, kids all over, of course,
[5:34]but also feeling that there was a lack of, you know, just interesting, fully developed
[5:42]characters that were girls and girls of color in, in kids books.
[5:45]And when I was a new mom, you know, I was reading, this was now four years ago with my oldest,
[5:50]we were reading the classics and, you know, replacing he was she, you know, sometimes coloring
[5:56]the skin color round.
[5:58]So they felt sort of, you know, that they could relate to it more.
[6:01]And I think those, you know, the classics are important and they're wonderful.
[6:04]And we were also lucky in that I became a new mom when there was sort of this,
[6:08]this, you know, burst of feminist kids lit, right?
[6:12]The sort of radical women, rebel girls.
[6:15]And those are really, those are really great and important.
[6:18]And I think teaching that history is super important.
[6:20]But I also kind of found myself at a certain point like I'm tired of reading lists of women
[6:24]in history.
[6:25]Like what about real, you know, fictional characters that children can and girls
[6:31]can see themselves in and can imagine themselves in.
[6:34]And just like existing, right?
[6:36]It's not about like teaching history or, you know, something sort of deeper than that.
[6:41]It's just like girls in the world doing awesome stuff going after their big ideas.
[6:46]But, you know, it's basically that sounds, as we know, there's still, you know,
[6:50]a lot of room to grow in terms of representation in children's literature.
[6:55]And there's still, you know, a lot, a lot more work to do, even though there's been
[6:59]some great, I think stuff that's come out even in the last two years.
[7:02]But I think there's some crazy statistic that I think in 2018,
[7:06]there were more books about main characters that were animals than black, Latinx,
[7:14]and indigenous characters combined, right?
[7:17]I don't know what this story is with all these animal books.
[7:19]Like I do not care.
[7:21]I mean, not that I don't love animals, but like, why?
[7:24]Why is everything about like sheep and goats?
[7:26]And I don't know.
[7:27]Like I haven't seen a sheep.
[7:28]I don't think in my whole life.
[7:30]Right.
[7:31]And it's, I mean, you know, we know that kids learn, you know, they're learning about animals
[7:35]for the first time.
[7:36]And that's great.
[7:37]And you have all these board books, right?
[7:39]They're like, learning, but yeah, exactly.
[7:40]Like that's not my experience.
[7:43]Yeah.
[7:43]I mean, a sheep that I'm really trying to dig into that.
[7:47]There's this young book activist, Marley Diaz, who has this line about.
[7:52]It's just like a white boy in his dog.
[7:54]It's like every book is like a little white kid in the dog.
[7:57]And it's true.
[7:57]I mean, even I was just looking at some of, you know, some new books that were coming out.
[8:02]And even if the character, you know, the full cast of characters is diverse, which is really
[8:06]great and really important.
[8:07]And again, just diverse, you know, diversity, just existing is important.
[8:12]But still the main characters are often not children of color, right?
[8:16]They're supporting characters.
[8:18]So, you know, again, I think we made a lot of progress.
[8:21]And it's important to apply that, but also to think about how we can do better.
[8:26]And one, I think really important point to make too is that as much as I hope that this inspires
[8:32]girls, right, and girls of color, it's not just for them.
[8:35]It's important for boys to read this and to see this, right?
[8:39]It's important for white children to see this and to see these powerful characters.
[8:44]It's good for all of us.
[8:45]And I, as I said, as a mom, you know, I never had this like on my road map or bucket list
[8:50]to write a kid's book.
[8:51]I'd never, ever, ever thought I would be doing this.
[8:54]But it was really just sort of similar to my launching The Women's Brand,
[8:57]where I was just responding that moment and feeling like, you know, I'm not,
[9:00]I'm not seeing it.
[9:01]And so I'm just going to go do it.
[9:02]I'm going to go put it out there.
[9:04]So it's been a really fun process and is really meaningful, both in this sort of,
[9:09]you know, broader commitment to sort of what I want to see in children's books.
[9:14]But then also, of course, the sort of personal family story behind it too.
[9:18]Well, that's actually part of the reason I wrote that round up for The Washington Post.
[9:21]Recently, where I included your book, because I noted the whole slew of books with diverse
[9:26]characters as central protagonist.
[9:28]And I thought that was so cool.
[9:29]So that was sort of the theme of my, of all the books.
[9:32]So at least there's a new, like, mini movement starting.
[9:35]And I saw also on your website that you have the option for people to donate a book to,
[9:40]we need diverse voices.
[9:42]Is that what it's called?
[9:43]Yeah, we need diverse books, which is so great in which I actually did.
[9:46]But anyway, it's so big, you're welcome.
[9:48]No, it's like, why not give a book to someone in need who would prefer to have somebody
[9:53]that looks more like them in a book than not?
[9:56]So tell me about your work with that organization too.
[9:59]Yeah, so we are...
[10:00]So we did a teacher giveaway that just ended yesterday.
[10:03]And it was also in partnership with we need diverse books.
[10:06]So when we launched the book and announced it,
[10:09]we were receiving tons of requests for people saying,
[10:11]I'd love to have this in my classroom, librarians.
[10:14]It was really inspiring to see that people wanted it.
[10:18]And finally, we're able to put together a giveaway
[10:21]and again, some of the messages that we receive from teachers.
[10:24]Just again, basic stuff.
[10:25]Why diversity on bookshelves is important
[10:28]and why that matters for them and their classrooms
[10:30]and their children was really super inspiring.
[10:32]And we received a ton of entries,
[10:35]I wish I could give away unlimited books
[10:37]and we're working towards doing that.
[10:39]And so the donated book is part of that, right?
[10:41]Giving people an opportunity to actually donate books
[10:44]directly to children in need and to school districts.
[10:46]We need diverse books as an organization
[10:48]that I'm actually, I think they've been around for a while,
[10:51]but are really doing, I think, important work
[10:54]in terms of everything we're talking about, right?
[10:56]Promoting the fact that we need to have children's literature
[10:59]that speaks to all children.
[11:01]And again, I want to make that point very clearly,
[11:04]which is that it's not just children's literature
[11:06]for children of color, it's diverse literature
[11:09]for all children, right?
[11:10]We all benefit from those stories.
[11:13]So they were doing really great work.
[11:14]It's been really fun partnering with them.
[11:16]And I hope that we'll be able to do more teacher giveaways.
[11:20]We've received since we did that,
[11:21]we received requests from other institutions
[11:23]like children's hospitals, right?
[11:25]Especially right now with coronavirus,
[11:28]wanting to give children engaging activities
[11:31]who are hospitalized.
[11:32]So we received more requests than we can accommodate right now,
[11:37]but I really hope that we'll be able to
[11:38]through the donated book initiative
[11:41]and maybe doing more giveaways
[11:42]that we'll get the book in more children's hands.
[11:44]It's fantastic.
[11:45]It's really such a great, it's just great.
[11:47]More people should do that, it's awesome.
[11:49]Tell me more if you don't mind about phenomenal women
[11:51]and phenomenal girl.
[11:53]So phenomenal, yeah.
[11:55]So phenomenal woman, I launched it in 2017
[11:58]coming out of the presidential election.
[12:00]I think like a lot of people woke up thinking,
[12:03]what just happened and more importantly, what can I do?
[12:07]How can I be more engaged?
[12:09]And I think we saw this incredible surge
[12:11]of ordinary people saying,
[12:13]I'm gonna stand up and I'm gonna do something.
[12:15]And so that was, it was my little contribution
[12:18]I decided to make a t-shirt.
[12:20]I had another sort of smaller t-shirt line
[12:23]that was really focused on women, female entrepreneurs.
[12:25]And so I was able to spin this up kind of quickly.
[12:28]And it was for the women's march.
[12:29]And I thought, you know, my Angela's poem,
[12:31]phenomenal woman is something that really spoke to me.
[12:34]And obviously with the women's march, right?
[12:37]And I thought it could be something inspiring.
[12:38]And I couldn't make it myself
[12:40]because I had a newborn.
[12:41]And I decided, you know, how can I be a part of it?
[12:44]And I put it on a t-shirt and a handful of shirts
[12:46]with friends to the march.
[12:48]And it was just super inspiring to see the images
[12:50]of them, right marching and on the hill
[12:53]and they got tons of compliments.
[12:54]And so I thought, let's, you know, do more.
[12:56]Let's turn it into a fundraising campaign.
[12:58]So we launched a campaign.
[12:59]It was supposed to be one month long.
[13:01]It was never supposed to be more than that
[13:02]to raise money for women's organizations
[13:04]in the month of March from its history month.
[13:06]And I thought, you know, we would sell, you know,
[13:09]a couple hundred t-shirts.
[13:10]And on the first day, we sold 2,500 shirts.
[13:12]Oh my gosh.
[13:13]And right.
[13:14]And I was, you know, I think I could have said,
[13:16]all right, at the end of the month,
[13:17]like I'm gonna go back to my regular life,
[13:19]but it just really took off.
[13:20]And I felt like I couldn't stop
[13:22]and how could we, you know, keep it going.
[13:24]And it's funny to look back because even in those sort
[13:27]of early days at all these people saying,
[13:29]can you make a different color?
[13:30]Can you customize this?
[13:31]I'm like, no way.
[13:32]I'm not that I'm a very good thing going.
[13:35]It's like a basic gray t-shirt.
[13:37]And now, you know, here we are, like three and a half years
[13:40]later and we have dozens of styles.
[13:42]And, you know, I just, I never thought that it would grow
[13:45]as much as it did.
[13:45]And I really, I think at the end of the day approached it
[13:48]like an entrepreneur, right?
[13:49]How do you really keep it going and build and grow it?
[13:55]And this book likewise was something that, you know,
[13:58]I didn't sort of intend on doing it.
[13:59]And it very much grew out of the experience of talking
[14:03]to women and mothers and seeing people, right?
[14:06]Engaging in ways that I think in many ways
[14:08]you've never seen before.
[14:09]But also thinking about, you know,
[14:11]how do I go beyond bringing my kid to the march, right?
[14:13]How do I really engage with them in a meaningful way
[14:16]around some of this stuff?
[14:17]And I think the real message is again,
[14:20]that it's really basic, right?
[14:21]It doesn't have to be that you're, you know,
[14:23]committing 10 hours a week to, you know, being an activist.
[14:26]It can be something very small, right?
[14:28]Such as deciding that you're gonna gather all the kids
[14:30]in your neighborhood and do something good
[14:32]for your apartment complex or your community.
[14:34]And in many ways, we saw that as well, you know,
[14:37]through I think about all the moms that have really,
[14:39]I think stood up for family separation, right?
[14:42]It was something that I think a lot of people,
[14:44]it struck them in a way where they said,
[14:46]I can't sit by, right?
[14:47]And I'm an ordinary person,
[14:49]but I have to do something about this.
[14:51]So that coincided with the launch of Phenomenal Girl.
[14:54]We, I've been wanting to get that out for a really long time.
[14:56]And this was finally felt like the right moment to do it.
[14:59]So we launched a Phenomenal Girl t-shirt along
[15:01]with the book.
[15:02]And we actually have a whole pre-order campaign
[15:04]with local bookstores around the country
[15:07]who has, you know, we know are really struggling right now
[15:09]to stay afloat.
[15:10]And if you buy the book from one of those partners,
[15:13]you can get a free Phenomenal Girl t-shirt.
[15:15]And you have the amazing Phenomenal Mother t-shirt,
[15:18]which I feel like I need a partner with you
[15:20]to like give it away or I need to do something
[15:22]for like the moms.
[15:23]Yeah.
[15:24]That was like so perfect.
[15:26]I know I'll probably air this after Mother's Day,
[15:28]but as we recorded it, it's before it.
[15:30]So I'm like, who can I give this shirt to?
[15:31]Yeah.
[15:32]I mean, it's such a nice, I mean, I love gifting
[15:35]the shirts to other people.
[15:36]I mean, it's such a small thing,
[15:38]but in a friend that has a baby, you know,
[15:41]I'm always gifting a Phenomenal Mother shirt.
[15:44]It just feels good to be recognized.
[15:46]And sometimes you need that reminder yourself, right?
[15:49]Like some of the weeks where I feel like I'm not
[15:51]probably the most Phenomenal Mother
[15:53]or when I want to put it on and remind myself
[15:55]that like that's okay.
[15:56]And I am Phenomenal, right?
[15:58]But yeah, actually we launched Phenomenal Mother
[16:00]as part of that effort around families at the border
[16:04]and around family separation, both to recognize
[16:06]all the incredible moms who were stepping up, right?
[16:09]And then also mothers who were impacted
[16:11]who were risking everything to come here
[16:14]to the United States to create a better life
[16:15]for their children.
[16:16]And it was I think one of the most inspiring campaigns
[16:19]that we partnered with families
[16:20]belong together, which is doing critical work at the border.
[16:23]But it was one of the most inspiring campaigns in that way
[16:25]where, you know, it's, these are just ordinary people
[16:28]going about their lives, busy as everybody else,
[16:31]but said, you know, I have to do something about this.
[16:34]I cannot, you know, go another day knowing that there are
[16:37]babies being ripped from their mother's arms
[16:39]and that I hadn't done something, anything about that.
[16:42]So it was a really inspiring campaign, obviously perfect
[16:45]for Mother's Day, which as you mentioned is coming up,
[16:48]we have had a lot of interest, especially where people
[16:50]are, you know, away from their mothers
[16:52]and are likely not going to be able to spend time together.
[16:55]It's just such a nice, you know, meaningful,
[16:58]but small thing that you can do.
[17:00]I actually, a long time ago, maybe two years ago,
[17:02]and I guess not that long.
[17:03]About two years ago, at a Mother's Day branch,
[17:05]I brought a girlfriend of mine, this little mug
[17:07]that I found that said, you are a good mom.
[17:09]That's all it says.
[17:09]It's a tiny little lowercase typewriter found.
[17:11]And I was like, you know what?
[17:12]I might just buy one of these for myself.
[17:14]And now every so often, just like what you were saying
[17:16]with the shirt, I just need to like pick up the mug
[17:19]and be like, you are a good mom.
[17:20]It is okay.
[17:21]Everything is okay.
[17:22]You know, from Finder, you know, and it's sort of,
[17:24]exactly, it's that self affirmation that I think we can
[17:29]all use in any, you know, on any given day,
[17:33]whether it's phenomenal mother or, you know,
[17:34]phenomenal woman.
[17:35]And I think that's what's cool about it,
[17:36]is that it, as much as it's about sort of
[17:38]the universal message, right, that women are phenomenal,
[17:42]mothers are phenomenal.
[17:43]It has such significant meaning to individuals.
[17:46]And in any given moment on any given day,
[17:48]I've had people who, you know, wore it,
[17:51]leading the hospital after giving labor or going into labor
[17:55]or, you know, people that had a big deadline coming up.
[17:58]They needed to like pull an all-mighter in jam through it.
[18:00]And it's like, armor, right?
[18:02]It just gives you sort of that simple little reminder
[18:05]that helps you to keep going and to feel powerful
[18:08]and phenomenal.
[18:09]So when are you going to run for president?
[18:12]Oh, God.
[18:13]As you can imagine, people ask me that all the time.
[18:16]I bet.
[18:17]And I don't know.
[18:19]I hesitate to, I sort of say that in a joking way
[18:23]in that I don't want to discourage women
[18:25]from running for office.
[18:26]Obviously, I think it's very important.
[18:28]And I want to see more women and more moms do that.
[18:31]But I also, you know, the other kind of part of the message
[18:35]with phenomenal is that you don't have to do that, right?
[18:38]There are other things that you can contribute.
[18:39]And what I've learned on my journey is that is not,
[18:44]you know, I think how, at least right now,
[18:46]how I want to participate, right?
[18:48]I think that there are other ways that I can,
[18:50]such as do something as small as a t-shirt
[18:53]or, you know, writing this kid's book.
[18:55]And I really believe that strongly.
[18:57]I think especially with, you know, encouraging women
[19:00]and moms in particular to run,
[19:02]it's like it's not an easy thing to do, right?
[19:04]I think we do need to make it easier.
[19:07]We need to talk about it more.
[19:08]We need to, you know, normalize it.
[19:10]We need all that.
[19:11]But I think we also need to have some real conversations
[19:13]about like what it takes and what a huge risk it is
[19:17]and how hard it is on your family, right?
[19:20]Like these, it's just not something that you kind of wake up
[19:23]and like, I'm going to go do this
[19:24]and it's going to be totally right.
[19:26]I just, it's complicated.
[19:27]So anyway, that's my very long-winded defensive answer.
[19:31]Oh, I'm not running for office any time soon.
[19:35]All right. Just had to get it out there.
[19:36]Thank you.
[19:39]Well, what about more children's books?
[19:41]Are you going to just, or do you plan to wait to see?
[19:43]I feel like you're very reactive to things that come up
[19:46]and you feel strongly about it.
[19:47]So are you going to wait for your next sort of mission-driven
[19:50]project or do you have one in mind already?
[19:52]I know. I've been on this path
[19:54]where like none of this stuff has been planned
[19:55]and it's working out okay.
[19:57]I think it's part of that, you know, creative process of...
[20:00]making space to allow yourself to be inspired
[20:03]and to sort of react in these moments.
[20:06]But yeah, I think I have ideas
[20:08]around how I could do more with it, right?
[20:11]And this concept in particular around big ideas
[20:14]and more to that, you know, listening to girls.
[20:17]And treating them as fully formed humans who are capable
[20:21]of saying yes and no, and who are leaders, right?
[20:24]Like this is all really important stuff that we know,
[20:27]especially in terms of having boys read this
[20:30]and see this is gonna impact them later on
[20:33]in terms of how they treat women, right?
[20:35]And respecting women starts with respecting girls
[20:39]and treating them with admiration
[20:42]and seeing them as leaders.
[20:44]And so I absolutely wanna do more.
[20:47]I don't currently have another sort of book
[20:50]in the pipeline, but I have tons of ideas.
[20:52]And I think part of it is, you know,
[20:53]somewhere too phenomenal, it's really about telling stories
[20:57]and stories of underrepresented communities
[21:01]and individuals and getting them out into, you know,
[21:04]the mainstream and making them accessible to all people.
[21:07]And I absolutely wanna continue building on that,
[21:10]whether it's through another kid's book or something else,
[21:13]but I'm certainly committed to it.
[21:15]And I welcome that creativity to strike again
[21:19]and I'm excited to keep it going in some way.
[21:22]I think you should make per sisters t-shirts
[21:25]because that was like my favorite expression in the book
[21:27]and then you could get a sister's sister's giving it
[21:29]to each other.
[21:30]So that's my philosophy.
[21:32]Well, I love, you know, I grew up as in,
[21:34]at a very particular experience of growing up
[21:37]as an only child, like a super only child, right?
[21:40]So I had a single mom.
[21:42]My grandmother was effectively a single mom
[21:44]and I was like the only kids surrounded by, you know,
[21:47]these adults and in particular, these incredible women.
[21:51]And I've always, you know, people ask,
[21:52]like, did you wish you had a sibling?
[21:54]I'm kind of like, not really.
[21:55]Like it was kind of awesome to be the center of attention
[21:59]as an only child.
[22:00]No, but, you know, I have a sort of fast and not fascination,
[22:05]but admiration for like the bond between sisters, right?
[22:10]Cause I saw that with my mom and aunt
[22:12]and then now I have two little girls.
[22:14]And I really, that's really special to me
[22:16]thinking about kind of that parallel with my grandmother
[22:19]raising her two girls and now I'm doing that, right?
[22:21]And really this book is about doing it
[22:24]in the way that my grandmother did as much as I can.
[22:26]And I'll never be able to, you know,
[22:29]emulate exactly what she did,
[22:30]but there's so many incredible lessons
[22:33]and seeing how my grandmother raised them
[22:36]and me as well and wanting to really,
[22:39]and again, remind myself of that.
[22:41]So I can keep sort of, you know,
[22:43]pursuing it for my kids, but also share that with others.
[22:46]And it's really, again, about just like showing up
[22:49]with that intention and committing to it.
[22:52]Again, it's not about, you know, going to a march
[22:55]or protesting every weekend,
[22:56]but just being thoughtful about how you talk to kids
[23:00]about, you know, showing up in the world
[23:02]with that kind of purpose and wanting to make an impact
[23:04]and wanting to do good in the world.
[23:07]Again, whether it's sort of in your community
[23:09]or your school or neighborhood, it's really basic stuff.
[23:12]But what I learned from my grandmother
[23:14]is that it really does have to sort of be injected
[23:16]into everything that you do
[23:18]and really be sort of a constant, continuous reminder, right?
[23:21]That we all have that responsibility.
[23:24]And parents are busy, like to be clear,
[23:27]that's a big, you know, task to sort of do something
[23:31]with consistency as a parent, like we're multitasking
[23:35]and doing a lot, but if you really do carry that with you,
[23:38]I think that there are extraordinary outcomes
[23:40]in terms of really building up your kids
[23:43]with that sensibility of wanting to do good in the world, right?
[23:47]So yeah, I'm excited that I'm now able to share it
[23:51]with others and through something so, you know, personal,
[23:54]but again, I think that anyone can relate to.
[23:57]Congratulations on your buck.
[23:59]And it was so nice chatting with you.
[24:02]You too.
[24:03]Thanks for having me.
[24:04]Thanks for reading it.
[24:05]Thanks for doing the activity book.
[24:06]I'm so excited you guys did that
[24:08]and that you have a really amazing, funny story now
[24:12]that I hope you troll your son, right?
[24:16]Yeah.
[24:17]In 20 years, graduation or whatever, right,
[24:19]about how his big idea was to figure out
[24:22]how to get his mom to stop bossing him around.
[24:24]There you go.
[24:25]Let's throw all the bananas come from.
[24:28]A luncheon back with you, exactly.
[24:29]All right.
[24:30]Well, thank you so much.
[24:31]And I wish you all the best with the lunch.
[24:33]So exciting.
[24:34]Okay.
[24:35]Okay. Bye.
[24:36]Bye.
[24:36]Thanks again for listening to my podcast.
[24:38]Moms don't have time to read books.
[24:40]If you liked this episode,
[24:41]please follow me on Instagram at zippyowans
[24:45]and at moms don't have time to read books
[24:47]and sign up for my mailing list at zippyowans.com
[24:50]so you can always hear about the latest things I'm up to.
[24:53]Thanks a lot.
[24:53]Today's episode has been sponsored by Minnie Rose.
[24:56]Check it out at MinnieRose.com
[24:58]and get 10% off with code zippy10,
[25:01]Z-I-B-B-Y, 10.
[25:03]Now, go shuffle some sweaters.
[25:04]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[25:07]for the sound editing.
[25:08]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[25:10]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[25:13]Thanks for listening.
[25:14]You could always email me at zippyatzippyowans.com.