Laura Hankin, HAPPY AND YOU KNOW IT
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[1:18]I'm here today with Laura Hankin, who's the author of novel Happy And You Know It.
[1:22]She's written for McSweenies and have post-among other publications.
[1:26]The viral videos that she creates and stars in with her comedy duo, Feminarki,
[1:30]have been featured in Now This, The New York Times, and Funny or Die.
[1:33]She grew up in Washington, D.C., attended Princeton University, and now lives in New York City,
[1:37]where she has performed off-Broadway, acted on screen, and sung to far too many babies.
[1:43]Welcome, Laura. Thanks for coming on, mom. Stand up time to read books.
[1:46]Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
[1:48]So this is so funny because, and I hope it's okay to say this,
[1:51]so Laura was formerly a children's play group musician, in addition to being a Princeton grad
[1:57]and all the rest, wrote this book, Happy And You Know It, which is about a children's group
[2:02]play group musician. And as she got here, it turned out my previous podcast guest
[2:08]was a mom who she used to sing to, which is so crazy. And I remember always being like,
[2:13]oh, that woman's really cool. I hope I run into her again someday.
[2:16]It's just the funny New York is such a small place. It is really crazy.
[2:19]Well, and we had said that maybe you and I had crossed paths.
[2:22]We messed up some point. We messed up. Yep. I think so. Okay. I hope I was well behaved.
[2:30]I remember with my first kids and I took into music class, I was like,
[2:34]you know, what should I do? Should I be like picking them up and out?
[2:36]Should they be on my lap? Should I, what should I do with this little shaker thing?
[2:39]Like, every movement was like, I was so stressed about and by the time I got my fourth kid,
[2:44]I was just like, oh, he's lucky to be in class.
[2:46]Fine problem. But anyway, back to your book. So happy and you know it.
[2:52]I gave a little snippet, obviously, but tell listeners what this novel is about.
[2:57]Okay. Please, I shall female friendship. I think is so fascinating, particularly when women
[3:05]are thrown together, not because of some deep connection, but because of some circumstance,
[3:10]like being new mothers in the same neighborhood. And so in happy and you know it,
[3:15]a failed musician who has been kicked out of her band right before they get famous,
[3:20]ends up taking a job singing to play group of new moms and their babies on the upper east side.
[3:25]And she gets drawn into their lives. And meanwhile, the mothers who outwardly present
[3:33]is very perfect, but are really dealing with all sorts of anxieties and worries about new motherhood,
[3:39]they grow to love this musician as well. And her presence begins to reveal some of the
[3:45]undercurrents in the play group that everyone's been trying to avoid acknowledging.
[3:50]Yes, just very juicy as the plot thickets of the novel goes on. Thank you.
[3:56]One of the things I liked the best about this book was the depth of all the characters and all
[4:01]the backstories that you paint for all of them. And then how you get to watch the interaction of
[4:05]all of them knowing all these things about them that maybe they don't know about each other.
[4:10]So as the reader, you're kind of like, you know, you get this inside knowledge into why maybe
[4:16]people are acting the way they're doing. So how did you come up with all these different characters
[4:21]and their very detailed and super interesting life stories up to the point of becoming moms?
[4:28]Thank you. It was a bit of trial and error for sure. I actually had a false start to this book.
[4:34]I was very lucky and that I was working with an agent from the beginning. And so we would
[4:38]brainstorm and then I would go forth and write and then I would present pages to her.
[4:42]Well, hold on. Maybe I should back up and just say what came first? Was it characters?
[4:46]Or did you have an idea for the story and how did that come about? And then maybe get into the
[4:50]characters. All right. Okay. Circle back. Circle back. Sorry about that. So what came first was
[4:55]this idea of what would happen if a play group musician got too entwined in a play group. And that
[5:02]actually happened in large part because I was doing this job as a play group musician. But more
[5:08]specifically, there was one time that I was hired to do a play group meant for lonely new moms
[5:13]to connect with one another. Was that really how it was marketed? Yeah. That's so sad. I mean,
[5:18]I don't know if they said like lonely new moms can't afford. But yeah, the purpose was like,
[5:26]you're a new mom. You don't have any new mom friends come mix again while somebody sings to your
[5:30]babies. And so I showed up at this location and a new momner baby showed up and we sat there
[5:36]and we were waiting for all of her new mom friends to arrive. And just nobody else came.
[5:41]Aw. It was very sad. My new mom was even lonely. I know. It was like the universe being like
[5:48]your destiny to never have friends. But we started talking and she was so cool that I was just like,
[5:54]I wish I could be friends with her. But our pads are never going to cross again. And they
[6:00]never have. But it got me thinking like what would happen if we were sort of forced into what
[6:05]another's lives on a regular basis. And so that's how I began writing the book. Got it. Okay,
[6:11]now you can go to the book really was this character study just of the musician and this one
[6:18]lonely new mom. Okay. And then there were if the samara, the basis for mara or no. Actually,
[6:22]no, it was a totally different mom. And amara was just a supporting character as we're
[6:28]Whitney and Gwen and all the others. And they were all like pretty interesting. There were a few
[6:32]interesting things going on with them. And whenever I tried to write their backstories,
[6:36]those came pretty easily. And meanwhile, I was banging my head against the wall about this like
[6:41]one lonely new mom whose name was Kitty. And so I showed it to my agent. And she in the kindest
[6:47]possible way was like, you know, I love a lot about this. I love the play group musician. I love
[6:53]amara. Do you think that your main mom is boring and shouldn't be in the book? And she was so right.
[6:59]So I went back and rewrote an entirely and bumped up all these other mothers who were more
[7:06]interesting to me anyway. And that's how they all came about. Wow. And then when you were writing,
[7:14]so there were so many intersections of different characters and events. Like, how did you
[7:19]structure this book? Did you, I mean, it sounds like you rewrote it. I mean, obviously you rewrote
[7:24]it. But the original vision, did you have an outline? Did you have like sticky notes? Like,
[7:30]what was your process? Like, I know that people tend to separate writers and to like the
[7:35]outlineers and the people who just fly by the seat of their pants. And I truly feel like I'm
[7:40]somewhere in between in that when I'm writing a book, generally I'll have a very general sense
[7:45]of the arc of it all. And I'll kind of know the beginning, kind of know the end. No, maybe like
[7:50]three or four big set pieces throughout maybe no a twist or two as well, even if I don't know
[7:57]exactly what it is. But then I really need to get to know my characters more just by writing them
[8:04]and putting them in situations. So then usually about halfway through writing a book,
[8:09]I'll stop and reread it and be like, okay, now I understand what is happening for the rest of
[8:14]this book. Now that I know what the characters would do. Wow. Very cool. And how was it writing? This is
[8:19]your second book. So your first book was called The Summertime Summertime Girl. How was it
[8:26]going back? Like, what was that experience like versus this one? Yeah. It was really interesting.
[8:31]So I had never tried to write a book before The Summertime Girls. And I had moved to New York and I was
[8:37]trying to be an actor. And I just needed some other creative outlet that I could control.
[8:42]So that's, I was like, let me try writing a book about female friendship. My favorite theme,
[8:48]your friends must be so flattered. Or scared. Or scared. Like when are you going to write a
[8:53]character based on me? And so it was very much my learning how to write a book. So it was, you know,
[9:01]a quieter coming of age story. And it had a small printing. I was very lucky that it got published,
[9:07]but it was never going to be a big commercial book. So then going into this one,
[9:12]knowing that it would be more high concept was both really exciting and really scary.
[9:18]It was like, I figured out how to write characters. Now, let me try to write a plot
[9:23]with twist. Well, the plot was really good. Thank you.
[9:26]Kept unfolding. Back to the playgroup situation. Yeah. As an up-free side mom of four kids,
[9:32]you sort of make fun of the up residers and, you know, whatever. You're very, you know,
[9:38]we've been taken to task more by other authors. So I wasn't offended or anything.
[9:43]What can you do? Like, is the musician from another world who comes in bound to dislike
[9:50]that people? Is there anything as a host to even do to endear yourself to anyone who comes
[9:57]and performs for your kids or do you know what I'm saying?
[10:00]How can you not shoot yourself in the fed hearing?
[10:02]Well, you've made fun of them being too friendly
[10:05]and being like, come on in and have some wine.
[10:07]Like, what can we do?
[10:08]And then you make fun, a little of the people being rude
[10:10]in a sort of, or what that would have meant.
[10:13]Anyway, what do you think?
[10:16]When I was doing the job, I just really appreciated
[10:18]when people treated me like a real person
[10:21]who they acknowledged had other things going on
[10:24]besides just singing to their babies.
[10:26]And so I think when Claire comes into this situation
[10:29]as the musician, she is prepared to hate these women
[10:32]for a few different reasons.
[10:33]One of which is that she has worked in this situation before
[10:37]and the women have treated her like she was invisible
[10:40]and have just talked over her the whole time.
[10:42]But also she just doesn't want to be there
[10:44]because she's supposed to be famous.
[10:46]She's supposed to be playing SNL with her band.
[10:49]And instead, she's having to go back
[10:51]and do this job that she had to do years ago.
[10:54]By the way, I really wanted to then hear the song.
[10:56]I feel like you should write the song, right?
[10:58]Because you perform and all this other stuff.
[11:00]Yeah.
[11:01]You should just write that song.
[11:02]And then that song should go on and be a hit
[11:04]and how perfect circle would that be a tie in?
[11:08]Yeah.
[11:09]That's a lot of pressure to write like the hit song,
[11:11]but give it a shot or some side.
[11:14]Yeah.
[11:15]I definitely had like a little melody
[11:17]that I would sing to myself as I was writing it,
[11:20]but it's not good, but maybe that's even better.
[11:24]Yeah.
[11:25]If it's just like not even a good song,
[11:26]maybe it's just funny, but you should just record it.
[11:28]You should do like a little YouTube and put it up there.
[11:30]Okay. I'm going to put this on my to do this.
[11:32]Okay.
[11:33]Anyway, sorry.
[11:34]Oh, but so I think Claire comes in
[11:36]with all these, you know, pre-judgments of these women.
[11:39]And then on their end, they have judgments of her too.
[11:43]You know, they assume that she's just going to be sort of
[11:46]sweet and non-threatening and uncomplicated.
[11:49]And then also they're all judging each other
[11:51]in the play group as well,
[11:53]even if nobody really wants to say it,
[11:54]but because they're all kind of competing
[11:56]to be the best mother of all, right?
[12:00]And so it's this whole judgment soup until they're able
[12:04]to actually get to know each other as people.
[12:07]So yeah, I think just acknowledging that someone is like
[12:12]a full and flawed human being is helpful,
[12:15]but it's tough when I was working as a musician.
[12:18]I always wanted the women to like ask me about myself,
[12:23]but I wasn't exactly asking them about themselves.
[12:26]I better.
[12:27]And I think sometimes it's hard to have that conversation
[12:30]of like, so are you just a play group musician?
[12:34]You know, or like, oh, so are you just a mom?
[12:36]Because like both of those choices are totally fine,
[12:40]but it just feels awkward to ask about it and open it up.
[12:44]Yeah.
[12:45]Sometimes I had this one friend who I had been close friends
[12:48]with for like two years and in the trenches with
[12:50]and I did not realize that she used to be a psychologist.
[12:53]Really?
[12:54]I sometimes you get so into the day to day with people
[12:58]and you don't go back to people's pasts even
[13:01]when you're with kids like, you know,
[13:02]I knew everything about her kids, you know,
[13:04]yeah, educate like everything of the moment.
[13:07]I could tell you about her.
[13:08]Just not anything major about her past.
[13:11]Right.
[13:12]And before the kids, I'm sure that was how she defined
[13:14]herself in so many ways.
[13:15]Yeah.
[13:16]Yeah. Well, it's like the characters in the book,
[13:18]every once in a while, some of the more minor mom characters
[13:21]in the play group, I'll just drop in like,
[13:22]oh, this character majored in, you know, psychology
[13:25]and spent years studying it.
[13:27]And this one was a lawyer and blah, blah, blah, blah.
[13:29]But yeah, it does not play into their everyday interactions.
[13:33]Wow.
[13:34]So tell me a little more about your performance life
[13:37]mixed with the writing life.
[13:39]So have you always wanted to be an act like tell me,
[13:42]how did we get here and tell me about your group
[13:46]that you perform with?
[13:47]I'm in our team.
[13:48]Is that okay?
[13:49]Yeah.
[13:49]So I grew up and my two main loves were reading and performing.
[13:55]You know, I was very much one of those kids
[13:57]where I always had a book in my hand
[13:59]to the point where my parents at one point
[14:01]had to be like, Laura, you cannot read
[14:04]while you're walking down the street
[14:05]because you don't stop at, you know, the streets.
[14:09]And we would prefer for you to grow up, please.
[14:11]I'm not getting by a car while reading a book.
[14:13]But I never really thought of myself as a writer
[14:16]beyond occasionally writing some fun little stories
[14:19]and terrible poems because I was so focused on acting.
[14:24]And so that's why I moved to New York.
[14:27]But learning that I could write and do that on my own
[14:32]really helped keep me sane.
[14:34]And so I've gone more into that as my main thing now.
[14:38]But I still definitely, like if somebody asks me
[14:42]to be in a show, if I worked with them before,
[14:43]and they asked me to be in a show,
[14:45]I love to do it.
[14:46]I've performed in some really wonderful musicals
[14:49]for children, which has been great.
[14:51]And then yes, I write comedy and comedy songs
[14:55]with my friend, Dominique.
[14:56]And we have a duo, Dominique.
[14:58]And we do live shows around the city.
[15:00]And then we also make videos online.
[15:04]And did you ever go the whole audition route?
[15:07]Oh, yeah.
[15:07]Yeah, I did some very weird shows in New York for sure.
[15:13]I did like a rock opera.
[15:16]I did a site-specific show and a graveyard.
[15:20]Yeah, wow.
[15:21]So it's an interesting world.
[15:22]But it's nice to have more control as a writer.
[15:25]Whereas when you're going and the auditioning route,
[15:28]you're just, you wait in line for a long time.
[15:31]And then you go in and you sing for 20 seconds.
[15:34]And that's it.
[15:36]Wow.
[15:37]Yeah.
[15:37]Did you ever think about teaching acting to cancer?
[15:39]Did you just perform music?
[15:41]I did some acting.
[15:43]Yeah.
[15:44]And actually, I did some really wonderful teaching
[15:46]artist's stints where I would go into a school
[15:49]and help the kids turn a book into a play.
[15:52]Oh, that's so cool.
[15:54]It was the best.
[15:55]And they were so creative, too.
[15:57]They would be writing these song lyrics that were so funny.
[16:01]And I was just like, oh, the children are the future.
[16:06]Well, if you ever want to get back into that,
[16:07]give me a call.
[16:09]OK, I have a very eager teacher.
[16:11]Want to be actors.
[16:13]Well, I have to.
[16:13]But one has potential.
[16:14]No, I shouldn't say that.
[16:16]I was just kidding.
[16:16]So they never listened to this.
[16:18]No, I'm just kidding.
[16:18]I might have to delete that.
[16:20]I'm just kidding.
[16:21]So one thing I found funny in the book also
[16:24]was Whitney, one of the main characters,
[16:26]has this whole life as an influencer on Instagram.
[16:29]Manufacturing this perfect life and taking all these products,
[16:33]which end up, you know, have various results.
[16:37]How do you feel about the mom's
[16:39]Instagram merch or whatever you want to call it?
[16:42]Hocking products through their,
[16:44]exploiting their lives in a way.
[16:46]Yeah.
[16:47]You know, I think that there are a lot of very fun
[16:49]aspects about Instagram.
[16:51]But it also really has the potential
[16:53]to make us all feel pretty terrible about ourselves.
[16:56]It's like candy, right?
[16:57]You eat a little bit of it.
[16:58]And it's nice and you feel good.
[17:00]But then if you are bingeing on candy for hours and hours,
[17:03]you feel very bad.
[17:05]And it's so easy to look at these people
[17:10]and wonder why you can't be as good as they are
[17:14]and why you can't be sparkly and have this perfect life.
[17:17]And you don't have hundreds of commenters
[17:20]talking about how much they love you and your family
[17:23]and your perfect.
[17:25]And so I wanted to explore that from the side of people
[17:27]who were looking at it, like Claire, for example.
[17:31]And then I wanted to explore it from Whitney,
[17:33]the alpha mom side, as her following begins to grow and grow.
[17:38]And for her, the reason that she gets into it
[17:41]is because she has so much anxiety
[17:44]that she's not doing motherhood, right?
[17:45]And so every time she posts the picture
[17:48]and the likes start flooding in,
[17:51]she feels like, oh, maybe she's not
[17:53]going to screw up her kid.
[17:54]And maybe her marriage, which is a little shaky,
[17:58]is actually as perfect as people are saying it is.
[18:01]But it turns out to not be a sustainable long-term solution
[18:06]for making yourself feel good.
[18:08]People on the internet can turn on you very quickly.
[18:13]Okay, so thoughts on adultery.
[18:16]This is sort of a big question,
[18:18]but I just wanted to know, given, you know,
[18:22]I won't give anything away.
[18:23]But let's just say, what are your own personal thoughts
[18:26]on this topic?
[18:28]Well, yeah, again, not to give anything away there.
[18:32]They may or may not be an adultery subplot in the book.
[18:35]I think it's fine.
[18:36]There's an adultery subplot in the book.
[18:37]You can say may or may not.
[18:38]And then they'll find out.
[18:39]Yeah.
[18:40]And maybe it's just a random question.
[18:42]Maybe it's, ooh, you know,
[18:45]I certainly did not write it to encourage everyone
[18:47]to have hot, hot affairs with very inappropriate people.
[18:51]But what I wanted to do was to explore
[18:56]how someone could little by little make a decision
[18:59]that they never thought they would be the kind of person
[19:02]who would make that decision.
[19:03]And so for the character who may or may not have an affair,
[19:08]I did not agree with what she was doing.
[19:12]I thought it was a very bad decision,
[19:14]but I also understood exactly why she made it
[19:17]because she was someone who really her whole life
[19:22]had been taught that being desirable
[19:24]was incredibly important.
[19:26]And now all of a sudden, she's a new mom
[19:28]and she's not being seen in the way that she's used to being seen.
[19:32]And her husband who's always treated her as this precious thing
[19:35]is not being particularly kind to her.
[19:37]And so when she meets a man who is seeing her,
[19:41]how she feels like she used to be seen,
[19:44]she's able to little by little,
[19:47]delude herself into thinking that like maybe
[19:49]he was actually supposed to be the love of her life
[19:51]and they married the wrong people.
[19:53]So what do you wanna do with that subplot?
[19:56]And also with a lot of the characters in the book
[19:58]is have them.
[20:00]make decisions that I would not make,
[20:03]but always have it come from a place of empathy
[20:05]so that I really knew why they were making those decisions.
[20:10]And I supported them even as I wish they had made
[20:12]different choices.
[20:14]You know?
[20:15]Do you feel like it's important to write likable characters?
[20:19]Now there's some debate in the writing world about this.
[20:23]I think you always have to like your characters,
[20:25]even if they're not quote-unquote likable,
[20:28]you have to find something in them
[20:30]that you really relate to, even in the most
[20:32]maybe ruthless decisions that they make.
[20:36]I personally like to have my characters always be doing it
[20:40]for a reason that I can really understand
[20:42]and really get on board with,
[20:43]whether it's protecting their family
[20:45]or protecting their sense of who they are.
[20:51]All right, I'll buy that.
[20:52]I'll buy that.
[20:53]Thanks, thanks.
[20:55]So what is coming next for you?
[20:56]Do you wanna write more books?
[20:57]Do what's your grand vision?
[20:59]I know you're still, I'm not gonna say anything about your age.
[21:02]I feel like so old in comparison.
[21:04]As you're talking about what number reunion
[21:05]it is for college, but I'm just gonna let it go.
[21:07]It's okay.
[21:08]It's fine.
[21:09]It's fine.
[21:10]So I'm working on a new book now,
[21:13]and it's the first time I've ever written a book
[21:16]on a deadline, which is fascinating experience.
[21:19]How much time do you have?
[21:21]I have two and a half more months or a draft is due.
[21:24]So I think it's gonna be doable,
[21:27]but I sort of just recently had that point
[21:29]that I mentioned earlier where I was halfway through,
[21:31]and I was like, oh, no, I understand
[21:32]how the rest of this book is gonna go.
[21:33]Okay. Yeah.
[21:35]But can you say anything about it?
[21:36]Sure.
[21:37]I guess the caveat that I could find a day message.
[21:40]Yeah, what it is now, yeah.
[21:44]So it is about an undercover journalist
[21:47]who infiltrates this top secret,
[21:51]women's only social club of the elite millennial feminist
[21:56]women of New York, and they're all very into astrology
[22:00]and witchcraft, and it goes from there.
[22:03]Um, interesting.
[22:06]So have you read anything good lately?
[22:08]Or when do you find time to read?
[22:11]I love to read all the time.
[22:13]As much as I can, I recently have been on and patch it.
[22:16]Okay.
[22:17]So I'm almost done with the Dutch house now,
[22:20]and I read Commonwealth, which I loved,
[22:22]and that was so beautiful.
[22:23]I love truth and beauty.
[22:25]Oh, yeah.
[22:25]I read that one too recently.
[22:27]Yeah, those letters.
[22:28]When do you like to write?
[22:29]When do you like to read rather not write?
[22:31]I read a lot before bed.
[22:33]It's such a nice sort of sacred ritual to me
[22:36]to just, at the end of the day, get in bed and read for
[22:39]even only 10 minutes.
[22:42]It's a really nice way to end a day, I find.
[22:45]When do you like to read?
[22:46]I also, I have to read before bed.
[22:48]It's like a must, a must do.
[22:50]That's my, I mean, always have time.
[22:52]I mean, however long, I can stay awake.
[22:54]I always read while I'm putting my kids to bed,
[22:56]like after they're in bed, but during the pop-outs,
[22:58]you know, I come in and out.
[22:59]I read while I'm working out, which says a lot about my workouts.
[23:05]Hence my current state, perhaps if I didn't read,
[23:07]I might be in a different size.
[23:11]I like to read on the subway too.
[23:13]I forget, I always forget that it makes my subway ride
[23:16]so much better, but then as soon as I
[23:18]do start to read on the train, I'm like, oh yeah,
[23:21]this is great.
[23:21]This is a great way to spend 45 minutes
[23:23]instead of trying to refresh Twitter
[23:25]when I don't have any service.
[23:28]Do you have any advice to aspiring authors?
[23:31]Yes, aspiring authors.
[23:32]Yes, I think the number one most helpful thing
[23:36]is to find a writer's group, or just friends who are also
[23:41]writing.
[23:42]People who can help keep you accountable,
[23:45]keep you moving, and also who's feedback you trust.
[23:49]And so you can share your pages with them,
[23:52]and then they get really excited about your book
[23:55]and your characters, and you can really help each other.
[23:59]Because writing is so great, it's so nice to be able to play
[24:03]around in your own head, but at a certain point,
[24:06]it's helpful to know if that makes sense to anybody
[24:09]outside of your head.
[24:10]And also, at a certain point, it's nice to have socialization.
[24:14]So finding a group of people who you really trust
[24:17]who can do that for you is like my number one.
[24:20]How did you find your group?
[24:21]I'm assuming you're in a group.
[24:22]How did you find your group?
[24:23]We actually took screenwriting class together
[24:26]like a screenwriting workshop, and over the course
[24:29]of the workshop, I remember being like, oh, their feedback
[24:31]is really good, and they also seem really nice.
[24:33]So once the workshop was over, I asked them if they just
[24:35]wanted to get together every few weeks and share our materials.
[24:38]So now we like get high tea and talk about our characters.
[24:42]But I think it's also very helpful because then once you do
[24:46]get a deal, hopefully you're used to taking notes
[24:51]and so it makes your editor love you because yeah, you know
[24:56]that like what you've written is not going to be perfect,
[24:58]and you are in the head space of wanting to make it better.
[25:01]Mm-hmm.
[25:03]That works.
[25:03]Yeah.
[25:05]Well, awesome.
[25:05]Thank you so much for coming on mom's time to read books.
[25:08]Thank you so much for having me.
[25:09]This was really fun.
[25:10]Good.
[25:11]But thanks again for listening to my podcast.
[25:13]Moms don't have time to read books.
[25:15]If you liked this episode, please follow me
[25:18]on Instagram at zippyowans and at moms don't have time to read books
[25:22]and sign up for my mailing list at zippyowans.com
[25:25]so you can always hear about the latest things I'm up to.
[25:28]Thanks a lot.
[25:29]Thanks to Modern Magin for partnering with us today,
[25:32]Modern Magin.
[25:34]We will think of you anytime we need to give gift to a
[25:37]Modern Magin playing person.
[25:39]Thanks so much.
[25:39]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing.
[25:43]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this
[25:46]fantastic intro and out trim music.
[25:48]Thanks for listening.
[25:49]You could always email me at zippyowans.com.