Betsey Johnson, BETSEY: A MEMOIR
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
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[1:23]I'm here today with Betsy Johnson, who's the world-renowned fashion designer and author of Betsy
[1:28]Emma Moore, a designer at the forefront of fashion for the past 40 years. Betsy is the recipient
[1:33]of the Council of Fashion Designers of America Timeless Talent Award, the National Arts Club Medal
[1:39]of Honor for Lifetime Achievement in Fashion, and she even has a plaque on the Fashion Walk of Fame.
[1:43]She currently lives in Malibu. Good morning, Deb. Good morning. Yes, that's a trippy great name.
[1:52]I wonder where that came from. It's from Elizabeth, a nickname from when I was a little baby.
[1:58]I should have been Betsy from Elizabeth. I'm kind of big departure, but I was never an Elizabeth.
[2:08]I was always a Betsy, I guess. I know from my mom.
[2:12]I was supposed to be a Betsy too because my dad had said he never met a Betsy who wasn't happy,
[2:18]so they were going to nickname me Betsy, but then I guess I didn't look like a Betsy, so here we are,
[2:22]Betsy and Debbie. Yeah, yeah, happy people I hope. That's the beginning and the end of it is
[2:29]especially now. I mean waking up and seeing something really great about the day and
[2:37]praying we get through this thing, but yeah, you got it. It's a real challenge to stay
[2:44]happy and self-entertained and be able to live without being next to your nearest endears,
[2:53]you know. It's a big challenge, but I know we're going to get through it. I mean,
[2:58]we have to, but we've lost too many people along the way, but we just have to stay home
[3:07]and wait it out, whatever. Oh, well, play dress up, learn how to cook embroidered. My daughter took
[3:14]up needle pointing again. I'm just moved in a new trailer park, which is very malibu things,
[3:23]great trailer park of all kinds of income levels and people levels, but just really a friendly
[3:30]little private Idaho place out here in Malibu. And yeah, it feels good in my surroundings and
[3:38]with the people I'm with, but have to walk down the side of the street with them on opposite sides.
[3:45]Weird, but I hope my book is a bit of a, well, people are reading more, they say,
[3:52]which is a good thing. And I hope my book is just a little interesting,
[3:59]mostly if you've been a customer. I said, I felt if every one of my really good customers
[4:05]buys the book, that would be great because I know writer and I was very terrified doing this,
[4:12]but it's come out okay. I really enjoyed your book. I found your book so interesting on so many
[4:19]levels, particularly the part about you're being a woman, entrepreneur, and also a mother,
[4:24]and all of your relationships with men and how you got through so many challenges. I mean,
[4:29]if there's anybody who can get through a challenging time such as now, it's you from your book,
[4:34]you can tell you just have the stamina and the ability to get through really anything.
[4:40]Well, you know what I know I did and it's kind of embarrassing. I would just blinders on the
[4:47]horses and Central Park were always a big thing to me because I thought, how can these horses
[4:53]deal with the energy and craziness of New York City streets? But that's why they had blinders on.
[5:00]So they were shut off except for the lane they were in or whatever. They could only see forward.
[5:08]And I just thought, you know, that's, that's I think a really good way to go if you want to
[5:16]get somewhere. You're kind of have to focus and you have to I hate to say, but you have to shut
[5:21]a lot out that you just can't deal with it all. You have to shut a lot out so you can focus on what you
[5:29]got to do or what you want to do at that moment. It's very simple. I didn't dream up anything.
[5:36]No, you just have to kind of shut the music down and and have faith and go forward.
[5:44]And that's I think the zone we're living in now. Hopefully globally we can get it all together
[5:53]real soon. I don't know when. Where are you living? Where are you from? I'm based in New York.
[6:00]Oh, you're in New York. Yeah. Got I never thought I'd leave that city. I was there like what?
[6:07]55 years and loved every second of it, but all of a sudden after going back all of a sudden
[6:14]after going bankrupt and let it out at all and joining the corporate world and realizing I can work
[6:20]from anywhere if I could only learn how to use this damn cell phone. It's a computer email. I can't
[6:28]do any of that stuff. But yeah, you know, you got to we have no choice, but to be optimistic, I think,
[6:36]and focus on the good stuff. And that's what I wanted my book to be. I didn't want it to be
[6:43]below the belt and you know, kind of the downside of my life because I my life is no different than
[6:51]any, but any other girls life. No, I'm not different from anyone because I lasted in business for
[7:03]so many years and I felt I was always the odd man out. But I always believed if I like this, there's
[7:11]going to be somebody else that likes this too because I'm not that weird. I'm not that. I mean,
[7:17]my design, I still wear some of my old stuff. I'm not I think I'm pretty timeless. And yeah, I did
[7:25]find there were lots more girls like me. So that's why I thought my entire story might be interesting,
[7:33]not just the fashion piece because that that that's just one little piece. And I consider
[7:41]the family piece, the single mothering piece, the getting through the
[7:47]illnesses piece that that was harder than the fashion business piece. Fashion and cutting and
[7:56]sewing and the clothing thing was always a fun category. I loved because of my dancing school
[8:04]and my dancing costumes. But yeah, all of a sudden, my dear friend Mark, the writer who put all
[8:12]my talking together, he felt that he just kept bugging me how I have to do a book. I have to do
[8:19]a book. I says, no, I can't write Mark. I can't do a book. But yeah, he really made me do it
[8:26]several years ago. I'm really happy with the way it looks because I was allowed to put some drawings
[8:33]in there and some little doodles because a book with just words is really terrifying to me.
[8:40]I'm not a reader of book books. I think I want to start now if someone would recommend a really
[8:46]great book. So anyway, I'm just so relieved that it's out and people seem to like it and
[8:54]it's a light read and a quick read. And at the end of the day, I hope inspiring and inspiring
[9:02]read. I did it. You can do it too. That kind of gig, you know? You know, one thing that I was struck
[9:09]by over and over in your book was just your ability to ask for what you wanted, either
[9:16]to a boss who was intimidating to you or to a spouse at the end of a relationship
[9:22]to your daughter. You can just you just have that ability to self advocate like that. And it's
[9:27]something I don't know. Is that something taught or it's just something you had inside you all along?
[9:31]What do you think? Oh, no. It's something I had to do. I never felt that I was in the power position
[9:42]successful in terms of getting my way. But I had to have my wish. I just had to have my way.
[9:53]Really weird. But it's my way or the highway. And I think I made it.
[10:00]work because it was my hard work, I mean, the three things, hard work, talent, and luck.
[10:08]I had a lot of luck, just kind of out of the blue luck.
[10:13]And yeah, I would have nothing to do with the fashion industry or any of it.
[10:18]If I didn't see that I was getting happier and happier and more and more my way, I mean,
[10:26]the only reason I went into business was because I couldn't stand to work anymore
[10:32]for companies who would let it be my way for a certain amount of time.
[10:38]And then sure enough, just like my husband, sure enough, about two and a half years later,
[10:46]it wasn't my way anymore.
[10:49]And after learning and doing my thing before 10, 5, 10, about 15 years I decided I got
[10:58]to be on my own.
[11:00]I can't swim upstream forever, it's just more of a fight than it is a pleasure.
[11:09]And scraped up some money, found my dear friend to be a great business partner.
[11:17]We did it with our blinders on peak blinders, we just did it.
[11:22]And we did it our way without any kind of knowledge of the fashion business or industry
[11:30]or how you do it.
[11:32]But it seemed very simple to us.
[11:34]You have an overhead, you have to pay your rent at the end of the month, you have to keep
[11:37]your lights on.
[11:39]And if we knew how tough it was, we never would have done it.
[11:45]And luckily it worked, there were lots more girls that would come out of the sidewalk
[11:52]cracks.
[11:53]I mean, I don't know how I found my girls.
[11:55]A lot of my girls were girls that, oh, 10 years later said, Betsy, why don't you make,
[12:02]you know, I still have that old paraphernalia dress.
[12:04]Why don't you make something like that again?
[12:07]And then 30 years later, they'd be, hey, why don't you make something like that again?
[12:13]And that's kind of what it's been.
[12:16]Reinventing what I always was doing, which was basically a little ballerina dress or a t-shirty dress.
[12:26]So I found my point of view that basically came from my dancing costumes.
[12:33]And there's no way I don't wreak of like color and sparkle and ruffles and, you know,
[12:41]we've born a Leo.
[12:43]I'm a Leo too, by the way.
[12:45]And I love it.
[12:46]You are.
[12:47]Oh, wow, you know it.
[12:49]You understand it and feel it then.
[12:52]We do not always have to be the shining star in the universe.
[12:56]That's for sure.
[12:58]I think we've got pressure on us to be very Leo.
[13:03]And I'm one of those insecure Leo's.
[13:07]Which, you know, we had more Leo girls in our company than any other sign.
[13:13]And I'm not in science that much at all.
[13:16]But it's interesting how there were just a lot, a lot, a lot of Leo's around.
[13:22]And we all were great great friends and built a family business together.
[13:27]And still are in touch.
[13:29]Every time I go back to New York, we get together 15, 20 of us.
[13:35]And we're still great friends.
[13:37]So that's the best thing to have built.
[13:41]A company where people met their very best friends where they were very, very happy to
[13:48]work, you know, within the company.
[13:52]And very much, my girls were very much desired by other companies.
[13:58]There was a certain spirit my girls had that every one of them, as they left, as they had
[14:04]to leave as they had to move on when we closed.
[14:09]They all did.
[14:10]They were sought after.
[14:12]Which makes me feel really good about, you know, their first introduction to the outside
[14:19]world, the business world, because it always hired young, groovy girls from the street.
[14:25]We never had anybody.
[14:27]We never had a businessman in there or a businesswoman.
[14:30]We just treated it very logically.
[14:33]And it works that way.
[14:34]You don't have to be, well, now you have to be more brilliant, I guess.
[14:38]I would never want to go into the industry now.
[14:42]It was a very, very cornball homemade, down on the farm kind of world back then.
[14:51]Now it's just so, so different.
[14:54]And I do not like the computer or those machines.
[14:58]So I would be sunk.
[15:00]I don't know.
[15:01]I think you would find a way to shine no matter when you were born.
[15:04]I really do.
[15:05]I think you're born with that.
[15:06]Yeah, we will.
[15:07]We would.
[15:08]We will.
[15:09]We have.
[15:10]This is a push.
[15:12]What we're going through now, I can't imagine two more months without getting closer
[15:19]to my grandkids.
[15:20]That's what really pisses me off about this.
[15:24]It's just like such a cut off.
[15:29]Out of it comes an appreciation of your granddaughters.
[15:32]It's like, oh, remember the days we used to hug and kiss.
[15:36]But other good stuff is even happening out of that junk.
[15:41]You know, I always try and find that little tiny reason that this is happening because
[15:49]of something.
[15:51]And I try and make it.
[15:52]You know, the planets cleaned up 50% from the satellites outside.
[15:58]They only see the pollution around the earth has been cut down by 50%.
[16:05]Of course, nobody's driving, nobody can get anywhere.
[16:10]But in terms of the air pollution, it's been a good thing.
[16:15]And I don't know.
[16:17]Everyone has to just take care and hopefully good things will happen to them.
[16:23]And I think we do with this day at home.
[16:24]I think that's a good idea.
[16:27]That's the best I think we can do right now.
[16:30]And it's hard to get into that groove.
[16:33]But think about the stuff you can do at home that you've never had the time to do before.
[16:40]Like me, I might learn to cope, but I don't think so.
[16:44]I won't get my sewing machine out again.
[16:46]It's packed somewhere in this unpacking mess.
[16:50]I have to deal with, but it's keeping me busy to move into my new little trailer park
[16:56]house.
[16:57]The out of this can come a whole new line of Betsy Johnson clothing that you never would
[17:03]have created.
[17:04]So there you go.
[17:05]Yeah.
[17:06]I know.
[17:07]I know.
[17:08]I know.
[17:09]I'm thinking what I'll do next because we have to keep busy, right?
[17:12]I mean, there's no way that we don't need to be busy to say, I've always been happily
[17:19]busy.
[17:21]But yeah, well, my daughter's needle pointing again.
[17:26]My granddaughters are doing paper mache and all this old-fashioned, old-world, artsy-craft
[17:34]stuff.
[17:35]Yeah, I just had a, we had a, we set up a zoom with every single person in my family
[17:42]from all over the world.
[17:45]Betsy, my name is Peggy.
[17:47]Betsy, from Bangladesh, most of my relatives from the East Coast, me, West Coast.
[17:55]And it was, it was better than, and you know, how, how can you get the whole family together
[17:59]for Christmas anymore that used to happen when we were little.
[18:03]But it did happen on, on the computer, the cell phone on Zoom, anyway, whatever that is.
[18:11]So that was a good thing.
[18:13]Yeah.
[18:14]Betsy, do you, I know we're almost out of time.
[18:16]Do you have any advice to either aspiring entrepreneurs or designers or authors or just
[18:23]somebody trying to get through the day, any, any advice after your life of experiences?
[18:28]Oh, I don't know.
[18:30]I just think, wake up, well, I think this happens when you get older.
[18:35]I wake up and go, yes, I'm glad I woke up today.
[18:41]Ain't left grand, but it's more just believe in yourself and believe in your contribution.
[18:52]And find out where the missing link is and be that missing link.
[18:59]You know, I, I remember back then I thought, what's missing, maybe the trick is to do
[19:06]what's missing.
[19:08]And what was missing for me were clothes that I liked when I went to the little cornball
[19:14]department stores and stuff.
[19:16]That's how I ended up making my own clothes because something was missing.
[19:21]And that's what I decided to jump into.
[19:25]And I don't know, any of the work really, really hard, but you have to keep your happy
[19:30]vision about it or, I mean, you have to say optimistic about it and believe you can do it.
[19:39]And just keep batting away at it or throw in the towel and move on to something else.
[19:44]Especially with boyfriends, throw in the towel on the early side, rather than the late side.
[19:51]And move on.
[19:52]Well, thank you so much for sharing your time with me today and for your book, which
[19:57]I truly enjoy.
[20:00]Great. Oh, thank you so much.
[20:02]Okay, take care. Bye-bye.
[20:03]Stay well.
[20:04]Thanks, YouTube. Bye-bye.
[20:05]Okay, bye.
[20:06]You've been listening to Moms and have time to read books with Zibi Owens.
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