Janelle Brown, PRETTY THINGS
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[1:37]I'm here today with Janelle Brown, who is the New York Times best-selling author of Watch Me Disappear.
[1:42]All we ever wanted was everything, and this is where we live. Her latest book Pretty Things
[1:47]comes out April 21st, 2020. Her journalism has appeared in The New York Times,
[1:51]Vogue, Elle, Wired, Self Real Simple, and many other publications. She began her career as
[1:56]staff writer at Wired during the internet boom. In the 1990s, she was the editor and co-founder
[2:01]of Maxi in a Reverend pop culture web-sign, web-scene. Can't remember how to say that. Originally
[2:05]from San Francisco, Janelle graduated from UC Berkeley. She currently lives in Los Angeles with
[2:09]her husband and two children. Welcome to now, thanks for coming on mom's and her time to read books.
[2:14]I am so happy to be here. Can you please tell listeners what Pretty Things is about?
[2:20]Pretty Things is about two young women. One is a con artist, and the other one is an Instagram
[2:27]influencer who happens to also be an actress. About a con artist who basically takes on this
[2:33]voice, this actress, and moves into her guest house with grand schemes in mind, and then everything
[2:40]goes very sideways from there. Your guide to how to rob someone based on their Instagram profile
[2:47]was like the most terrifying thing I think I've ever read. I was really like, oh my gosh,
[2:54]people are out there just stalking people's accounts and look at how easy it would be just to take
[2:58]anything. Well, you know, what kind of inspired me to write this book. I mean, there were a lot of
[3:03]things that inspired me, actually. But one of the things that I was fascinated by was,
[3:08]remember when Kim Kardashian was robbed by that, you know, in France by that group of things?
[3:15]They were tracking her online. That's how they found it. And I was fascinated by that. That
[3:19]basically, like, she led them straight to her by, you know, flashing her jewelry on Instagram,
[3:26]and then leaving enough clues that they could figure out where she was staying, and then, you know,
[3:31]like, you know, they're breaking her house and robbing her millions of dollars of jewelry.
[3:36]So that was one of the stories that motivated me to write this book. But then also, yeah,
[3:42]you know, my mother, when I got on social media, was like, you really shouldn't put anything
[3:48]on there. People could stalk you, and I was laughed at her. But not really, because there's
[3:53]certainly a truth to that. I was actually stalked once when I was in college. And so, you know,
[3:59]there I've kind of, I'm kind of conscious of what people are doing when you're not aware,
[4:06]like how people might be watching you, when you aren't realized you're being watched. And
[4:10]certainly, that's what Instagram is all about. Especially when you have these people who are just
[4:16]out there kind of flaunting their lives. I mean, that's what so much of Instagram is. And what
[4:22]influencing is, is, you know, showing off your best life. And if your best life being showing off
[4:29]all the things you have, how easy would it be for someone to just go, oh, there's my mark, you know?
[4:35]Totally. My last Instagram post was about mopping the floor, so I don't feel like I'm that much
[4:39]risk right at this exact moment. But if somebody wants to steal my mop, that's fine. Oh, my gosh.
[4:45]I mean, we're at home all the time right now. So no one's going to be breaking in when you're not here.
[4:50]That's true. I know there was like some ridiculous report in the newspaper like crime is way down.
[4:56]And I'm like, yeah. Like who's there to even watch the crimes happen even if they were
[5:02]happening? So anyway, yeah. Can we back up to when you were stalked in college, tell me more about
[5:07]that? That must have been terrifying. It was a little strange. It was my sophomore year of college,
[5:12]and I just moved into a co-op building. I went to UC Parkway, and they had these kind of famous
[5:18]residences or co-op, which are like communal housing. And one night I woke up like in the middle of
[5:26]the night. And this guy had like a line but into bed with me. What? I was like, yeah, I mean,
[5:33]he was fully dressed. And they was like on top of the covers. But it wasn't like, but yeah,
[5:37]and I screamed and the guy ran out of the room. And it turned out it was my next door
[5:42]neighbor in the building. And he was mentally, he was, he was schizophrenic. And having an episode,
[5:49]and I guess he somehow, I'd never actually met him because I'd only been living there for a
[5:54]month. And he had barely left his room. But he had apparently become kind of obsessed with me.
[6:00]And they hauled him away to mental hospital the next day. And then he proceeded for the next year
[6:07]or so to like, you know, sometimes call me 20, 30 times a day. It was very strange. I mean,
[6:13]it was nothing. I never saw him again. There was just that one time. But, you know, for the next
[6:19]year, I changed my phone number. He found my name phone number. He called me. He wouldn't actually talk
[6:24]to me. He would just leave these strange messages. But it was him. So that was my soccer store.
[6:29]That was like 20, a lot of years ago. Wow. So is that like capturing that fear part of what
[6:37]made you want to write thrillers or not unrelated? Or what do you think? I'm unrelated. I'm related.
[6:44]I, you know, it's funny. I never set out to write thrillers. And I actually wouldn't even describe
[6:49]myself as a thriller writer per se. I know that's kind of the catchphrase that marketing uses.
[6:54]But I kind of think of myself more as, more of a literary suspense. The pacing is not your
[6:59]typical thriller, you know. But I kind of came to writing these kinds of books very sideways.
[7:04]My first two books that I wrote were not at all suspense novels. They were, I mean,
[7:10]their page churners that they were like domestic dramas or more, more Jonathan Franzzany,
[7:14]you know. And then I started writing my third novel, Watch Me Disappear. And I was kind of
[7:22]imagining that as being another book in the same vein about a father and a daughter who were
[7:28]kind of coping after the disappearance of the, you know, mother slash wife. And
[7:33]in fact, I was supposed to, I was planning it to be about grief and, and coming together
[7:38]the mother, I mean, the father and the daughter. And then as I wrote it, this kind of story emerged
[7:43]that turned out to be a mystery. Like where was the mom? Had she, she got on the hike? Had she died?
[7:50]Or was she still alive? And then by the time I finished the book and charted in,
[7:56]my editor called me. She's like, you wrote a suspense novel. I'm like, I did.
[8:03]I really, really wasn't what I was planning to do. And so when, you know, that book did really
[8:10]well, it became a New York Times bestseller. And so of course, you know, they called me, you know,
[8:15]like, would you write another one? Can you write another suspense novel? And I was like, okay,
[8:20]sure. And because I love suspense novel. I love like ton of French and Megan Abbott and
[8:26]Jillian Flynn and all these kind of like, there's so many, more lit men. There's so many kind of
[8:31]wonderful, you know, crime and suspense and mystery writers now, especially women that are writing
[8:38]books that are like your unconventional, you know, not, not what we used to think of suspense
[8:44]novel that, right? They're, they're a little more breaking the mold, I guess what I want to say.
[8:49]And so I kind of took it as a challenge where I was writing this one to really approach it as,
[8:54]okay, now I am writing suspense intentionally. How do I write something that doesn't feel like
[9:01]something that's been written a hundred times before a thousand times before. And so I wanted to
[9:07]read something I hadn't written. I mean, I wanted to write something I hadn't read before. And so
[9:13]I spent a lot of time kind of thinking about what I like in and suspense novels, what makes
[9:19]me excited, what makes me feel like I'm intrigued, but I'm involved in the characters. And I want
[9:25]to know what's happening, but I also really want to spend time on each page as opposed to like
[9:29]just like I did it, you know. So I think I got off the track of your question, which was
[9:34]did the stalker make you want to write a book, but you actually answered like 15 other questions.
[9:39]So it ended up working out just fine. And I'm sorry, I didn't mean to mis-categorize. I feel
[9:45]like I lump so many types of books into the overarching term thriller and I shouldn't and I know
[9:50]there are differences between the genres, but I think it's sometimes confusing even for me and I
[9:55]like deal with books all the time. So I'm sorry if we don't apologize. And no, no-
[10:00]Oh, it's okay.
[10:00]My marketing people also call it the trailer.
[10:03]So because I think when you look at the bookstore categories,
[10:09]and this is what kind of crazy-making is,
[10:12]like, why do we have genre categories anyway?
[10:15]Because half of the time, you look at a book
[10:18]and it gets categories in this very narrow category,
[10:21]like crime novel, mystery novel, thriller, romance,
[10:25]you know, comedy.
[10:27]And so many of the great books,
[10:30]the ones that I love and the books that I like to write,
[10:33]are ones that kind of break through multiple categories, right?
[10:37]Ones that are like not easily quantifiable
[10:40]as one thing or another.
[10:41]And so as much as I understand that,
[10:43]like that shorthand is important for marketing
[10:48]and for bookstores and for people who are like,
[10:50]I like the genre, I want more books in the genre.
[10:53]And also as the author,
[10:55]I always want to cringe a little bit,
[10:56]like, oh, that's so much more complexity than that, you know?
[11:00]I mean, I feel like it's the same thing for the movies, right?
[11:02]There's some movies and you're like,
[11:05]wasn't there somebody who wanted Academy Award?
[11:06]And they were like, well, apparently I was in a comedy.
[11:08]Yeah, it really was like a drama or something.
[11:12]So yeah, I feel like everybody just wants to dump everything
[11:16]into different categories and be done with it.
[11:18]But my opinion is, but my opinion in particular
[11:21]is what the YA category, because it's not for young adults,
[11:26]it's just about young adults.
[11:27]Like it's totally misleading.
[11:29]Some of those books are so good.
[11:31]So I don't know.
[11:32]Yeah.
[11:33]And then people come to books expecting something
[11:34]and I get disappointed when it's not that.
[11:36]Like, you know, when someone picks up a book
[11:38]and expects it to be like, you know,
[11:41]James Patterson Thriller and it's like a, you know,
[11:45]a contemplative story about a family, they get mad, right?
[11:50]Because it's not what they thought they were gonna be reading.
[11:52]And sometimes they get excited and sometimes they, you know,
[11:54]they're happy to read something different.
[11:56]But people come to books with expectations based
[11:59]on the categories that they put in.
[12:01]And that's always kind of hard to, to break out it, right?
[12:04]Sort of.
[12:05]So even the covers.
[12:06]So I feel like now it's become very formulaic who was like,
[12:09]okay, here's my Thriller type cover.
[12:11]It has to have these four characteristics.
[12:13]So people know it's a Thriller.
[12:15]As if we're all like, so dumb, we cut through the thing over
[12:17]and read the, the back flap.
[12:19]Like we can, like I find like if you're reading a book
[12:21]and you're shot, I should stop talking.
[12:23]This is probably in a room, but I mean, no, no, no, it's at all.
[12:26]I'm like now venting all of my issues here.
[12:28]But I feel like if for readers who are out there
[12:31]and shopping and wanting to buy books,
[12:32]they're gonna turn it over and aren't they?
[12:35]I mean, I don't know.
[12:35]I just...
[12:36]Yeah, yeah.
[12:37]Okay.
[12:38]You know, I totally do.
[12:39]And I feel really happy.
[12:40]I've actually been, I love my cover.
[12:42]And I'm, I've been really lucky with my cover
[12:45]on this one on my last one as well.
[12:47]Cause they're, you know, they kind of have a Thrillerie look
[12:50]but they don't totally look like a Thriller book.
[12:52]So they have luck going on.
[12:54]Anyway, I love my cover.
[12:55]Yeah, no, I love your color too, especially the red.
[12:57]No, I'm kidding.
[12:58]I'm kidding.
[12:59]Actually, the other day I was like laying on my couch
[13:01]and I had on like the perfect matching outfit
[13:03]for your book and that's why I had like posted about it.
[13:05]I had like this like pale green sweater
[13:07]and black pants on my like tan couch.
[13:09]And I was like, oh, I matched with this book cover.
[13:12]I mean, I have to start it.
[13:12]Oh, look at these.
[13:15]Anyway, well more about the book.
[13:18]When Vanessa talks about her friends, Vanessa, one of the
[13:20]characters as when my father died,
[13:22]they sent texts but didn't pick up the phone.
[13:24]Maybe that was the moment that I realized that my friendships
[13:27]were like the thin crust on a frozen lake,
[13:29]a barrier blocking the way to anything deeper.
[13:32]And I felt like that was such a good commentary
[13:34]on how some friends like do respond
[13:36]and how friendships have evolved.
[13:38]I feel like for so many busy people,
[13:40]tell me a little more about that passage.
[13:42]Yeah, you know, I've gone through different transitions
[13:44]in my life and every time you go through a transition
[13:48]you watch friendships all the way, right?
[13:51]Like you have, you move and you watch friendships all the way.
[13:53]You have children and suddenly like you realize
[13:56]some of your friends that you thought we were so close to
[13:58]like you just don't speak to anymore.
[14:01]Or, you know, people that you go through a hard time
[14:05]and some people can't handle it.
[14:06]And they just kind of vanish.
[14:09]And especially, you know, social media is wonderful
[14:12]in a lot of ways.
[14:13]And this book is harsh.
[14:15]My book harsh is on social media a lot.
[14:17]But I also like things that I've created
[14:20]some amazing connections through social media.
[14:21]And that's some incredible people.
[14:23]And, but there's also this certain like
[14:26]shallowness to a lot of the connection there
[14:28]where there is a difference between having a friend
[14:32]who you really tell everything to on a daily basis.
[14:37]You see each other, you spend time together,
[14:39]you touch each other's hands, you know,
[14:40]when you're when you're talking.
[14:42]And someone who you never actually meet in person.
[14:45]And a lot.
[14:46]And I think that kids today, kids today, kids,
[14:50]today, young people today are kind of growing up
[14:55]in this world where more and more the interaction
[14:57]that you have with your friends is spent virtual
[15:00]is done virtually.
[15:02]And I do worry that some of that is not
[15:06]an deep connection that is spent, you know, in person
[15:09]together, right?
[15:11]So that was kind of imagining this, you know,
[15:13]Vanessa is kind of having these friendships that are all based
[15:17]on surfaces and the minute her life starts to go sideways.
[15:21]Everyone kind of backs away and it's easy to do
[15:24]because you just spend a couple of texts
[15:26]and, you know, go somebody in a way
[15:29]that is hard to do if you actually sing them, right?
[15:31]So too.
[15:32]Another part of the book in addition to just like
[15:34]the bigger plot of it was the backstory of everybody.
[15:37]And I felt like all your characters
[15:39]had such bad things happen to them or such sad things.
[15:43]And like one after another, I'm like,
[15:45]oh no, this happened to, I can't believe it.
[15:47]I was wondering how you're tapping in
[15:49]because I felt like you did such a good job of tapping
[15:51]into that feeling of grief and loss and tragedy,
[15:54]really that what you have to go through
[15:56]when you experience something like that.
[15:58]How are you so good at writing about that?
[15:59]Did you have, not to probably, but did you have like
[16:02]some trauma or did something happen
[16:04]or are you just like super empathetic?
[16:07]I don't have any trauma.
[16:09]I mean, I look at our family, my family has had
[16:13]their issues over the years.
[16:14]They've all like, you know, had ups and downs.
[16:16]But I've never had anything relating to the trauma
[16:19]that I put my own characters through.
[16:20]I like to put my characters to the ringer.
[16:24]And I guess it's, I think as a writer,
[16:28]in order to be a good writer,
[16:29]you need to be a little bit of a psychologist, right?
[16:32]A science.
[16:33]And to kind of be interested in the human psyche
[16:36]and what makes people do the things that they do
[16:40]and how people carry the trauma
[16:42]and by themselves that they experience.
[16:45]And so I'm fascinated by character, by people
[16:48]and how they kind of persevere
[16:51]through the stuff that they experience.
[16:52]And so I guess I'm an empath, I guess.
[16:56]I'm an empathic or just nosy and curious
[16:59]about what makes people tick.
[17:01]But no, I've never, you know,
[17:03]I've never had a schizophrenic brother.
[17:06]I've never had a psychiatrist.
[17:09]A mother who's a con artist,
[17:11]I've never had a mother who's been suicide,
[17:14]all these things that I have my four characters go through
[17:17]in a story, you know, not me.
[17:20]I think you're right though.
[17:21]I think all I think writers have,
[17:23]you know, you have to be interested in how the mind works
[17:26]when you're delving deep into somebody else.
[17:28]You know, I mean, that's what it's all about.
[17:30]Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
[17:33]Do you, so I read that you covered
[17:35]the internet economy during the dot com boom
[17:38]back in the day, which I was part of working
[17:40]at a company called Idealab during that time,
[17:42]which was like, I've been-
[17:44]I've been for idealab.
[17:45]All these startups and everything.
[17:47]Yeah, I remember.
[17:48]Yeah.
[17:49]What lessons do you think you could sort of take away
[17:51]from that time as it applies to this like
[17:54]burgeoning Instagram and TikTok and Snapchat
[17:57]and I don't even know, house party,
[17:58]whatever everybody's doing?
[17:59]Like do you think there's like any warning signs
[18:02]or just anything you're taking,
[18:04]you took away from that period of time to this period of time?
[18:07]I mean, it's so, it's funny because, you know,
[18:09]I was working at Wired and so on.com
[18:13]in San Francisco during like 95 to 2002.
[18:18]And what we imagined the world was gonna be like,
[18:22]we had this kind of utopian view back then, right?
[18:24]Which was, you know, revolution, but for good
[18:28]and the world is gonna come together
[18:29]and, you know, speak to you to be free.
[18:32]And, you know, and yes, some of those things have come
[18:36]to pass and there's been some great things
[18:38]that have come out of the internet
[18:40]that we imagined, you know,
[18:42]access certainly has been amazing.
[18:44]Like, I can get digital books.
[18:46]There's some music like streaming video.
[18:49]But so much we didn't imagine, you know,
[18:52]the kind of obsessiveness that happens
[18:54]like the way that social media has kind of this like,
[18:58]this addictive presence in our lives.
[19:01]And I don't know that I could say
[19:02]that I learned less than them
[19:05]that apply now because I feel like
[19:08]we're in such a different place now
[19:09]than we were 20 years ago.
[19:11]But I guess maybe the lesson that I could apply
[19:16]is that everything changes so quickly.
[19:20]And the way you think the world is going to be now
[19:22]is gonna be completely different in the decade or two decades.
[19:25]And so be careful, I guess, what you wish for.
[19:29]Yeah, I feel like maybe one of the things
[19:33]I learned from watching that whole boom and bust
[19:35]was that like the people in charge
[19:37]don't necessarily know what's going on.
[19:40]Yeah.
[19:41]You know, I had so much faith in the people running things
[19:43]that they just understood and it turns out
[19:46]that they really did, that they didn't necessarily.
[19:48]So I don't know how to apply that.
[19:50]But that is a good lesson, that's a good lesson.
[19:55]So what's your writing process like?
[19:56]Where and when do you like to write?
[19:58]Well, usually I,
[20:00]I go to my office every day.
[20:01]I started a collective writing space in Los Angeles near my house.
[20:06]A couple of writers and I started like eight years ago and we have about 25 writers
[20:13]I think that share the office, kind of a bunch of rooms in this country, this mid-century
[20:17]modern building that's over here and stuff like that.
[20:20]And I usually go there and write every day, but sometimes I work at cafe as a little
[20:23]bit, but usually what happens is I get my kids off to school and then run to my office
[20:29]and try it right until I have to go back and pick them up from school.
[20:32]Right now I'm second home obviously because of the coronavirus, but it's on my writing process
[20:38]now is I'm trying to get a good five in the morning to work before the kids have to be
[20:42]home's cold, but hopefully this won't last forever.
[20:46]That's impressive.
[20:47]Do you have a deadline?
[20:48]Yes.
[20:49]Do you have to do it?
[20:50]I'm working on a couple of things right now, so yeah, I need to be working as well.
[20:55]It also keeps me sane.
[20:57]If I wasn't working at all, I feel like I need to be doing something or I'm just
[21:03]going to slide into depression, you know.
[21:06]I've said that same line maybe like a hundred times in the last two weeks.
[21:10]I'm like, I have to be doing something.
[21:11]I have to, I have to, but yeah.
[21:14]Yeah.
[21:15]Yeah, exactly.
[21:16]Well, do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[21:18]Yeah, this is the question that I was so hard for me because I feel like everybody's
[21:22]writing process is so different and I hate making blanket statements about how you should
[21:29]write or the way that should write.
[21:31]I know that for myself, the process of becoming a writer was about reading and not just
[21:39]reading but like reading and rereading and rereading, like to pick up a book and I'm reading
[21:44]it three or four times and thinking about how that book was assembled, you know, like
[21:51]beyond the enjoyment of it, like what's the, what are the, how do you describe it?
[21:56]Like what makes a clock tick, right?
[21:57]When you take the, the front off and kind of look at how the calls work in the back, the
[22:01]more you read a book, the more you start to see how things fit together.
[22:05]I used to, I haven't done this in a while, but I used to diagram books and kind of do like
[22:10]maps of books, books that I had read that I thought were interesting to me and so I'd
[22:15]kind of mark out what happens on web page and why and kind of look at how it was constructed
[22:21]that way.
[22:22]So those are kind of useful, useful tools and then yeah, the only other piece of advice
[22:27]is the one that everyone gives, which I'm sure is all I get to sit down, it's just
[22:31]right.
[22:32]Don't be afraid to throw it away, you know, right?
[22:35]And we write and we write, but everyone says that so it's hardly an original piece of
[22:40]writing advice.
[22:41]It's okay.
[22:42]I mean, sometimes people need to hear something, you know, read the 87th times and it
[22:46]really sinks in, you know.
[22:47]You're right, right, exactly.
[22:50]I mean, you can hear it, but when you hear how it works for someone else, I think it's
[22:53]much more powerful than just reading a statement, you know, I mean, you can know it,
[22:57]but hearing you say that this is what helps you, I think that's, that helps.
[23:01]So, who knows?
[23:02]Yeah, yeah.
[23:03]That's true.
[23:04]And just one last question.
[23:05]I just, because I didn't understand.
[23:06]So how did you move from going from the dot com era and being a journalist to writing fiction?
[23:11]When did you always want to write books or how did that happen?
[23:15]Yeah, you know, I always wanted to be a novelist.
[23:19]Like, back when I was in first grade, literally first grade, I used to make little books
[23:24]and write little stories about my past and hound pogo and I would bind them into books
[23:30]like using wallpaper as like the covers and have pages in them.
[23:35]And I remember my first grade teacher told me that I should be an author when I grew up
[23:39]and I took her advice very seriously and kind of stuck with that idea in my whole childhood.
[23:46]So that was what I was going to do when I grew up.
[23:50]And I ended up working as a journalist after college just because I wanted to actually have
[23:54]a job in an income and have being a novelist as a message, I mean, you can start off
[24:00]and make money at.
[24:01]And so I kind of sighed, you know, I got sidelined by the dot com boom.
[24:07]I ended up in journalism and for almost a decade, that's kind of what filled the world
[24:12]and filled my world.
[24:14]So it was around like 2002, 2003, as I left my job and decided that I needed to like
[24:21]really give writing a go and I writing fiction ago.
[24:26]And so I went freelance and was feeling like things like the New York Times and, you know,
[24:33]under the magazines and then working on my first novel on the side.
[24:38]And it took me about four years to finish my first novel and sell it.
[24:44]And then I've basically been a full-time novelist ever since, so that's like 12 years now.
[24:48]And I don't really do much journalism anymore, certainly not the way I used to.
[24:52]I write the occasional essay, but not reporting, not investigative journalism, certainly.
[24:58]So yeah.
[24:59]As my husband would say, you're living the dream.
[25:02]It's like whatever writer wants is to be able to say like, I can just sit here and write
[25:08]novels for 12 years.
[25:09]It's amazing.
[25:10]So anyway.
[25:11]Yeah.
[25:12]You know, I count myself as very lucky for sure.
[25:15]I feel like I've been, I've been very lucky in my book, I'm done very well and I've been
[25:20]well-received in my, I am appreciative every day of that, you know, being a full-time novelist
[25:25]has his own challenges, but different ones, different emotional challenges.
[25:30]But I'm, I'm feel very happy.
[25:33]I feel very privileged, so to be able to do what I do.
[25:36]Yeah.
[25:37]Well, it was so nice to chat with you and I'm sorry for technological issues at the beginning,
[25:41]but this was great.
[25:42]Okay.
[25:43]Thank you for coming on this podcast and so we also, we can't do it in person in LA.
[25:48]I was looking forward to that, but some, some of that time maybe.
[25:51]Yeah.
[25:52]Me too.
[25:53]Yeah.
[25:54]Once we've all left, I'm like, I'm going to be everywhere.
[25:55]I'm like, you want to come over?
[25:56]Yeah.
[25:57]I'm over.
[25:58]I'm over right now.
[25:59]Totally.
[26:00]Get me out of my house.
[26:01]I know.
[26:02]Oh my gosh.
[26:03]And now the traffic's going to be crazy.
[26:05]Anyway.
[26:06]Oh my gosh.
[26:07]All right.
[26:08]Well, thanks again.
[26:09]You're welcome.
[26:10]And now we're going to do, are we giving, are we giving an Instagram live next week?
[26:13]Yes.
[26:14]We're going to have it on Wednesday.
[26:15]Is that right?
[26:16]Yes.
[26:17]So good.
[26:18]I think it's a much, I love your podcast.
[26:19]I love what you're doing for books, by the way.
[26:20]I know it's a little light too.
[26:21]I'm like, can I see you?
[26:23]Oh, thank you.
[26:24]Thanks for saying that.
[26:25]Okay.
[26:26]Okay.
[26:27]All right.
[26:28]We have a great weekend.
[26:29]We'll talk more next week.
[26:30]Okay, perfect.
[26:31]Okay.
[26:32]Bye.
[26:33]You've been listening to moms don't have time to read books with Zibi Owens.
[26:36]Please make sure to sign up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com to get more updates about episodes
[26:41]like these and also lots of live events.
[26:44]Thanks so much for listening today.
[26:46]Again, please go check out.
[26:48]We found time.com.
[26:49]We found time.com for this week's new five essays from authors who have been in the
[26:54]podcast and also go to goldbelly.com and order some ninnies, treats, crumb kicks.
[27:00]They are so good and you will not regret it, although your clothes might be a little
[27:04]tight next week.
[27:06]I hope you all have a great week, bye bye.
[27:08]Thanks.
[27:09]You can follow me on Instagram at moms don't have time to read books.
[27:13]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[27:17]Thank you to Morningmoon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.
[27:21]Thanks for listening.
[27:22]You could always email me at zibiowans.com.