Kathleen West, MINOR DRAMAS & OTHER CATASTROPHES
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[1:45]It's thrilled to be here today with Kathleen West, who is the debut author of Minor Drama's
[1:50]and other catastrophes. She's a middle-in high school teacher and a lifelong Minnesota,
[1:55]which I don't think I've ever said before. She holds an English degree from the Kalister College
[1:59]at a master's degree in literary education from the University of Minnesota.
[2:03]She currently lives in Minneapolis with her husband and two cents.
[2:06]Welcome, Kathleen. Thanks for coming on Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[2:09]Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here.
[2:12]Congratulations, Minor Drama's and other catastrophes is your first novel.
[2:15]So it is. It's so exciting. I'm really happy about it.
[2:19]Can you please tell listeners what it's about?
[2:20]Absolutely. Well, I wrote this book about that impulse that I have a
[2:24]Muslim and that many moms that I know have to step in and take care of the problems in their
[2:30]kids' lives. And the scenario in this book involves a helicopter theater mom who has lost her
[2:36]sense of boundaries, a progressive English teacher who comes under fire for her curriculum
[2:41]and a social media scandal that ensnares them both.
[2:45]What inspired you to write this? Did anything like this happen to you?
[2:48]Well, my students, I have been a teacher for 20 years in Minneapolis.
[2:53]I'll add elite suburban schools and independent schools.
[2:56]So I've thought a lot about parenting in my life. This scenario did not happen to me.
[3:00]However, my oldest son, who's a 10th grader now, but was a sixth grader when I started writing
[3:05]this book, tried out for a musical called Ellis Island, which is the same musical in the novel.
[3:11]And as he was trying out, I was very excited and wanted him to get a part.
[3:15]And I definitely had to check my Julia Abbott impulses during that process. I thought,
[3:22]oh, I'll just go down and ask the drama teacher, like how that read-through went and
[3:25]or see if he remembered his choreography. And every time I was like, that would be a bad idea.
[3:30]Like that would be crossing the line. So the day that the cast list came out for the sixth
[3:35]grade Ellis Island that my son had tried out for, my teaching neighbor asked me like,
[3:39]are you going to go down and look at it and see if he was cast. And once again, like we laughed
[3:44]about this and it seemed like it might just be harmless, but we both knew that it would be
[3:50]crossing the line. So then we had a fun time imagining all the moms that would do it,
[3:55]would come into the school and push the kids aside and look at the list. And that's what
[4:00]Julia Abbott does at the beginning of the book. And so that was the first scene that kind of came to
[4:04]me. But you are already in the school. Like you were already teaching. Yes, I worked.
[4:08]I feel like that wouldn't be so bad. Maybe not, but I just think like an adult
[4:14]in the space with the kids. Like the results of the middle school play auditions should probably
[4:20]be processed by the middle schoolers first, I think. Okay. You're probably right.
[4:26]I think you know where I'm skewing.
[4:29]Spectrum here. I don't want to reveal my helicoptering too much. But so it became the scene of
[4:34]total humiliation because Julia Abbott, while she was like peeking at the
[4:38]at the caseless accidentally. And so it's elbowing one of the students. And it's caught on
[4:43]camera and social media and goes viral and all the rest of it. Yes. And so she's not as
[4:48]mortified perhaps if she should be. But you know, it becomes the whole right. She's the
[4:53]whole thing. And of course her kids are like the side themselves.
[4:56]She thinks it will be just like a minor thing. And then the way that it looks on the video is
[5:00]extreme. And it kind of is indicative of the attitude that she has had in her parenting for a while.
[5:06]And so I think her community really latches onto that incident and blows it up in a way
[5:12]to kind of highlight other ways that she might have overstepped in previous years.
[5:17]So how do you know where the line is?
[5:19]I think that's a great question. And I think parents have to really consider that. And it gets
[5:24]really blurry, especially because things can tend to spiral. Like you hear, oh, my,
[5:29]you know, five of my friends are doing this kind of tutoring. This must be the thing that I should do.
[5:34]All of these parents that I've heard of emailed the school about X. And so I should also
[5:38]email the school about X. And I think in society to be seen as a good parent, people expect you
[5:46]to be constantly advocating for your children. And so you want to be seen as a good parent.
[5:52]I think what I try to remember for myself is that dealing with rejection and failure and disappointment,
[5:58]those are really normal life experiences. And if I can let my kids have those experiences and
[6:05]recover from them and bounce back in a normal kid way, that will serve them better in the long run.
[6:10]So in terms of like a hard line, I don't think there is a hard line, but I try to just evaluate
[6:15]every parenting situation that I have like each one at a time. Like what would be the best thing
[6:21]for my kid in this situation? And what would be my best best thing in this situation? And what
[6:26]would be the consequences of letting them just feel the pain of failing a test versus asking for
[6:32]the retake, et cetera? What do you think the role is of the school? Because I know in this
[6:37]you're the teacher, but you're also the parent, your own life. And one of the characters obviously
[6:41]is a teacher and one is a parent. The school and even the headmaster gets involved, right?
[6:47]And different people are influencing different ways about the casting. And what should the school
[6:52]especially when they feel that parents are encroaching on the territory? And maybe particularly
[6:58]donor parents encroaching on the territory? Yeah, I think it's a really challenging for school
[7:03]administrators to maintain their values or maintain the school's mission statement,
[7:11]especially when you're working in an independent school. The school in minor dramas is a public
[7:15]school, but I've also worked in independent schools where your tuition driven and these families
[7:19]are investing a lot of their financial resources in the school and they feel entitled to a certain
[7:25]experience because of that. I think what happens a lot of time is that the teachers and the administrators
[7:31]have one idea of what's best for the kids and the parents have a different idea and they both
[7:35]care super intensely. And that's where the conflict comes up. But in terms of what a school should do,
[7:42]I think that it's really important for a school to have a clear mission statement and a clear set
[7:46]of policies and then to kind of gently coach parents about how they think each situation might be
[7:53]best handled. But I mean, I think it's natural to have disagreement around that kind of thing.
[7:58]I feel like there should be, you know, how a lot of schools have, well at least some of the
[8:01]schools, some of the many schools my kids go to. We have to sign a yes, something about
[8:06]I think that's really important. But it doesn't often address the behavior of the parents and how
[8:10]involved they should be. And I feel like maybe schools should, you know, sniff it in the bud by
[8:14]yeah, my last school has that a document that is just like it's called I don't remember what the
[8:20]official title of the document is, but it says like a protocol or a chain of communication. And
[8:26]it has a list of what the teachers are expected to do as well. So like what a parent can expect
[8:30]from a teacher and then what a teacher can expect from a parent. And I think having a document
[8:36]like that can really help both sides. So tell me more about the writing of this book. Also, I want
[8:41]to know what your students think about this book and your community. Are they like rallying behind you
[8:47]and getting totally fired up that one of their teachers? Yes, I would I would think so. Yeah,
[8:51]yeah, let's talk about that. Okay, so I wrote this book. I'm 41 now and I started thinking about
[8:56]writing a book about five years ago. And before that I had just kind of cruised through my life.
[9:01]You know, I wanted to be a teacher. I became a teacher right out of college. I got married and had
[9:05]two children and then all of a sudden I was in my late 30s and I hadn't written that book yet.
[9:10]So it kind of started as a New Year's resolution. I thought this is the year I will reclaim my
[9:14]writer identity and I will practice writing a book. And that first year I worked on a totally
[9:19]different story that was a multi-generational family saga. Really not good. And highly out of
[9:26]biographical and probably some inappropriate ways. So that went back. That sounds really good to me.
[9:32]I just think I wasn't the right writer for that at the time. I've read some great multi-generational
[9:36]family sagas and mine was not one of those. So then I had that spark of an idea around the six
[9:42]grade musical. And that project went away and this project was born. But to make time to write,
[9:48]you know, with my full-time job and my kids that just became a really early morning endeavor.
[9:53]So my writing time was 4.45 to 6.15. Oh my gosh. So you was, what time would the alarm go off?
[10:00]Four, 42, and then I would roll out of bed.
[10:03]Wow, I started writing right away.
[10:04]There's not even time for coffee.
[10:05]I think I probably started typing around for 51,
[10:09]or something like that.
[10:10]So, and I did that weekdays for three years.
[10:13]Oh my gosh.
[10:14]Yeah, and you go to bed at night.
[10:16]I mean, between nine and 10 probably.
[10:18]So not very late.
[10:19]Other writers I know are night people,
[10:21]and they can stay up like after their children
[10:22]and do it then, but that just wasn't my way.
[10:25]So writing the book was great,
[10:26]and when I worked on it, I talked about it
[10:28]with my students a lot.
[10:29]And I think it added a sense of authenticity
[10:32]to my teaching and my writers' workshops with my kids.
[10:35]And I would put little segments that I was working on
[10:38]like into my mini lesson and talk about how I had revised
[10:41]that part or what my goal was for that part.
[10:43]And it was great for me too, as a writer,
[10:46]thinking about how stressful the publishing process can be
[10:50]because the kids would say, well,
[10:51]are you going to be able to get this in a bookstore?
[10:54]Are you going to get published?
[10:55]And I would be able to tell them,
[10:57]I can't control that.
[10:58]I don't know.
[11:00]That's not really the point of writing the book,
[11:01]the point of writing the book is to see if I can do it
[11:04]and to work on my skills as a writer.
[11:05]And so having to talk them through that reminded me
[11:08]of that as well.
[11:09]So it was great.
[11:11]Now my community, my teaching community,
[11:13]they were very excited when I announced that the book
[11:17]was going to be published.
[11:18]And then when I told them about the plot of the book,
[11:21]many families said, oh no, you wrote a book about me.
[11:25]But I feel really good about the arc of the characters
[11:28]in the book and the helicopter mom in the book.
[11:31]And it's not based on anyone real person.
[11:34]I would never want any parents to think
[11:36]that I had skewered them in the book.
[11:38]It had always been my goal to be a teacher
[11:40]and it's been such an honor to be part of these family's lives.
[11:43]So I want people to feel good about themselves
[11:46]when they're reading it.
[11:48]I would think that was so neat if one of my teachers
[11:50]had a book.
[11:50]They've all been really excited.
[11:52]And some of the students that I had even
[11:54]closer to the beginning of my career
[11:56]have reached out and that's been really fun and rewarding too.
[11:59]And how did it work was getting published, getting an agent?
[12:03]You know, that part wasn't as hard
[12:05]as some of the stories that I've heard.
[12:07]And I think there are a few factors about that.
[12:09]Like I think I waited a long time in my writing life
[12:12]to try to pursue publications.
[12:14]So I think my skills had grown.
[12:17]I also approached it with a real detachment.
[12:20]I kind of thought, well, I'm going to try to get an agent.
[12:22]I probably won't get an agent.
[12:24]So I didn't feel like I was hanging on so, so tight.
[12:27]And I think that kind of helped me.
[12:29]And then also the timeliness of the subject matter
[12:32]of the book, I think, really helped.
[12:33]You can't predict what's going to happen.
[12:35]You can't predict that, you know,
[12:36]Felicity Huffman will pay thousands of dollars
[12:39]to get her kid into college.
[12:41]But I think having parenting in the zeitgeist
[12:44]is like really helpful to the book now.
[12:46]Yeah, definitely.
[12:47]Yeah, you must have been so happy with you.
[12:49]I was like, oh, look at this is perfect.
[12:52]I felt bad of course.
[12:54]You had a funny post from your blog,
[12:57]which you've kept forever.
[12:59]Yeah, so much fun peeking through the different years.
[13:01]So this is from November 2006.
[13:03]Oh, wow.
[13:04]Yeah, you said the first, this is about parent teacher conferences.
[13:07]You wrote the first of the conferences
[13:08]with the Soph's sophomore, as I was doing parents.
[13:11]Sophomore's parents were pretty fun,
[13:12]except for the one where the mom questioned my qualifications,
[13:15]my assignments, my judgment, my choice of reading material
[13:18]and my ability to connect with kids all the while,
[13:20]pounding on the table and chanting,
[13:21]he does not get beat pluses.
[13:24]It's true.
[13:25]I could have lived without that one.
[13:25]Yes, I can't believe you found that in there.
[13:27]I remember that conference.
[13:29]Did that really happen?
[13:30]Oh, yes, 100% that happened.
[13:32]And that was the same mom.
[13:34]I mean, she was very upset.
[13:36]Later that spring, I had a great year with that kid.
[13:40]And he really enjoyed the class.
[13:42]We had a super good relationship.
[13:43]And I think she ended up feeling sort of she fish
[13:46]about that conference towards the end of the year.
[13:49]And she ended up writing me a note at the end.
[13:51]And so things turned out OK.
[13:54]But things happened like that all the time and teaching.
[13:56]And those are the things you remember.
[13:58]So it's probably one out of 100 conferences that's like that,
[14:01]or maybe five, but not more than five out of 100.
[14:05]But those are the ones like still 15 years later,
[14:07]like I could recount the entire thing.
[14:11]Wow.
[14:11]Yeah.
[14:12]And then I stood up, what you're supposed to do
[14:14]if you are in a conference like that.
[14:15]And for that conference, I was at a high school.
[14:17]So I had a line in front of my table.
[14:20]And you're supposed to do like your two-minute conference.
[14:21]It's super short.
[14:23]And if it goes wrong, you're supposed to stand up and say,
[14:26]it's obvious we're going to need more time,
[14:28]like let's reschedule.
[14:29]But she came around the back of the table
[14:32]when I said that and kind of was in my space.
[14:35]And after I finished, I got her to leave my area.
[14:39]I actually had to tell my line to wait.
[14:41]And I had to go to the bathroom that composed myself
[14:44]and come back.
[14:45]So that one was pretty dramatic.
[14:47]Oh my gosh.
[14:47]It's so funny, because I feel like so many teachers
[14:50]and maybe I'm just speaking for you,
[14:51]go into teaching for the love of kids
[14:53]and the social education.
[14:54]And yet, you have so much parent management
[14:56]as part of your job.
[14:57]I think even one of my kids goes,
[14:58]they have to take a whole day off.
[14:59]So the teachers can write the reports to send it to the parents
[15:02]like for a report writing this.
[15:03]Yes, we have the two.
[15:04]I don't even do I care that much about these reports.
[15:06]I kind of know my kids.
[15:07]It's like, give me the like five minute rundown.
[15:09]And let's all save that whole day.
[15:11]Yeah.
[15:12]I didn't imagine that parent management would be part of my job.
[15:16]Like I decided to be a teacher when I was 11 years old.
[15:19]It was really what I wanted to do.
[15:20]I even saved like all the handouts
[15:22]from my English teachers like going through high school
[15:25]in the little filing cabinet label I booked.
[15:28]I didn't use that stuff, obviously,
[15:29]when I got into the field,
[15:31]but it didn't occur to me at all
[15:32]that parents would be a major part of my job
[15:34]until I actually started in the classroom.
[15:37]And I mean, like I said before,
[15:40]I think I can understand it,
[15:41]especially after my own kids were born,
[15:44]then I had this kind of empathy infusion
[15:46]of what was really going on when they were calling me
[15:48]and this overwhelming love and fear for my children.
[15:51]So I do get it, but it's not my favorite part.
[15:55]And you're also a huge reader.
[15:56]So you have a huge good reads following.
[15:59]Yeah, always coming up with your favorite books and lists
[16:01]and things like that.
[16:02]Yeah, I enjoyed that.
[16:03]Your love of reading and what types of books you like the most.
[16:06]Oh, that's a great question.
[16:07]Well, I was a super voracious reader as a kid.
[16:09]And then in those busy years of having my job
[16:12]and my kids and blah, blah, blah,
[16:14]I kind of lost that reader identity.
[16:16]And the year before I had my New Year's resolution
[16:19]to reclaim my writer identity,
[16:21]I had my 52 books a year, New Year's resolution,
[16:24]which I have continued on through the years.
[16:27]You need to like send me your New Year's resolutions.
[16:30]Well, they're on fire, is this right?
[16:32]Yeah, I mean, like next January,
[16:34]you just send me an email to whatever years that I'm going to do.
[16:36]Okay.
[16:37]So I, you know, when I was teaching,
[16:39]this year I'm not teaching for the first time in a long time,
[16:41]but I read a lot of middle grade and young adult books
[16:44]because of my job.
[16:46]So that's a really favorite category of mine.
[16:49]I read a lot of so-called women's fiction,
[16:51]like my own book.
[16:52]You know, I read pretty widely.
[16:53]I try to make sure that I have a balance of nonfiction
[16:57]and fiction.
[16:58]I try to read literary fiction and thrillers and mysteries.
[17:01]I like that.
[17:03]There's not too many genres that I don't,
[17:05]that I'm not interested in.
[17:06]I would say that I don't read a lot of historical fiction.
[17:10]I'm not a huge reader of that genre,
[17:13]but I will, if there's a book that everybody
[17:15]is talking about, then usually I want to be a part of it.
[17:18]So I'll read it.
[17:19]And when do you find the time to read?
[17:21]I read every night before bed,
[17:23]and it does really motivate me now.
[17:26]I'm revealing a little bit of my personality.
[17:28]Like the year's resolution, like if I say I'm going to do it,
[17:31]then I will do it.
[17:32]So I'm behind right now,
[17:34]like I'm a book behind on my book a week.
[17:36]So I know that in the back of my head.
[17:37]And so that might make me change my plans a little bit.
[17:41]Like I might turn off the bachelor or something
[17:43]before the rose hair moaning to catch up the next day
[17:46]so that I have time to read a few more pages before bed.
[17:50]But I just put it into the little spaces
[17:52]if I'm waiting for my kids at their sports practices
[17:54]or whatever.
[17:56]Yeah, that's like-
[17:56]I do audiobooks too.
[17:57]That really helps.
[17:59]And those count for me in my total.
[18:01]Of course I guess.
[18:02]Yes, I love them, so.
[18:03]I mean, they're the same books.
[18:04]They're the same books.
[18:05]Or new?
[18:05]Great book.
[18:06]Yes, that's great.
[18:07]So when you were writing, is it always like in the same,
[18:10]do you have like a ritual?
[18:11]It sounds like you're very programmed.
[18:13]Yeah.
[18:14]So during these morning periods, desk, kitchen table, couch,
[18:18]there's a couch.
[18:18]I, my kitchen and I have like a family room
[18:21]that's attached to the kitchen.
[18:22]So that was be where I sat and I had this,
[18:25]I have a little blanket this made out of sleeping bag material.
[18:28]This is a lot of detail about that.
[18:29]I like it.
[18:31]And I just kind of roll out about it in my pajamas
[18:34]and usually put on a sweatshirt, sit on,
[18:36]in the same place on that couch with my blanket.
[18:39]And when I first started, I had a 400 word quota.
[18:42]Like I had to get that done within that time.
[18:45]And if I didn't, then I would have to find another time
[18:48]to get like the four, up to 400.
[18:50]So during recess or something at school
[18:53]or whatever, a spare moment, I needed to get it in.
[18:57]And then once I practiced for a while,
[18:59]400 became pretty easy to accomplish.
[19:02]So then I would up it to 600 or whatever as I went.
[19:07]But it is kind of a relief now.
[19:09]This year I'm writing full time.
[19:10]So it's a relief not to have to do that
[19:13]or have that kind of like very strict mentality,
[19:16]like word count and minutes and all of that.
[19:18]I can't, I have a little more flexibility,
[19:20]which is really nice.
[19:21]And what are you working on now?
[19:22]Well, I just turned in a draft of my next book.
[19:26]And I'm pretty excited about it.
[19:28]The, I think I've been telling people
[19:31]the big difference is about the kids.
[19:32]I love writing about kids and teenagers.
[19:35]And in minor dramas, I have two teenagers
[19:38]that are point of view characters.
[19:39]And they are really perfect.
[19:41]They do everything right.
[19:43]They have their own values, fully formed personalities,
[19:46]great people.
[19:47]It's their parents that are making all the mistakes
[19:48]and their teachers that are making the mistakes.
[19:50]And in my second book, I really started to think about
[19:53]what happens when the kids make mistakes
[19:56]and how those mistakes impact parents' reputations.
[20:00]That's something I've been thinking about a lot like if you get your kids report card and
[20:04]it's all-a's or something you feel like you've earned some mother of the year points like oh
[20:08]I must have done a great job this semester or if your kids hockey team wins their game then people
[20:14]tell you congratulations and I wish as a mom and as a teacher that we could separate ourselves
[20:20]a little bit more from our kids identities and our kids failures and accomplishments.
[20:25]So in the second book I have kids making big mistakes in parents thinking about how that
[20:29]impacts their relationships and their reputations and just like yeah do you have any advice
[20:34]for aspiring authors? Yes I think that you should just do it like if people tell me oh I think
[20:40]I'd like to write a book my advice is just just start it just start it and just keep writing
[20:45]it even if it's terrible that's my thing like I still do have like a word count in mind for the day
[20:51]I don't have to do it within a really short period of time anymore but if I just give myself
[20:56]to write something terrible then I can usually get through it and it's so much easier to fix
[21:00]something terrible than it is to start fresh so just write down the bad stuff. Do you have
[21:07]a clue of what your next mayor's resolution is going to be? Oh you know I'm trying to think I'll
[21:12]still have my 52 books that one has been in every year this year instead of setting a specific
[21:18]goal for 2020 my goal like with the book coming out and with so many things I can't control
[21:24]with the book coming out yeah like I just can't tell you you know I can't set a goal of
[21:28]extomer of people to buy the book for instance I can't make that happen so I told myself my
[21:33]resolution this year was to take one thing at a time it's kind of an anti-resolution or not
[21:37]really like me but that's what I'm doing but you need it I need it yeah yeah yeah yeah that's great
[21:42]yeah well thank you so much for coming out. Thank you for having me this is so fun to chat with
[21:46]you about this yeah congratulations again thank you. You've been listening to moms and have time to
[21:51]read books with Zibi Owens. Please make sure to sign up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com to get
[21:57]more updates about episodes like these and also lots of live events. Thanks again to good pods for
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