Stephanie Wrobel, DARLING ROSE GOLD
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[1:13]Stephanie Robel is the author of debut novel Darling Rose Gold. Stephanie has an MFA from Emerson
[1:18]College and has had short fiction published in Bellevue Literary Review. Before turning to fiction
[1:23]she worked as a creative copywriter at several advertising agencies. She grew up in Chicago and
[1:28]currently lives in the UK with her husband and their dog Moose Barkwinkle. Welcome Stephanie
[1:33]thanks for coming on mom's end of time to read books. Thank you so much for having me.
[1:36]I'm really excited to discuss Darling Rose Gold. Are you very excited for it to come out?
[1:41]Yes it's been such a whirlwind process and it's crazy that it's like here now.
[1:45]Oh my gosh wait so first of all tell everybody what Darling Rose Gold is about and how you
[1:50]came up with the idea for this novel. Sure so the book is about a mother and daughter named
[1:55]Patty and Rose Gold Watts and Rose Gold is sick for the first 18 years of her life. She
[2:00]has a feeding tube, she uses a wheelchair to get around, she has her hair falling out in clumps
[2:05]and no one can figure out what's wrong with her until it comes out that Patty was actually
[2:09]making everything up all along. And so Patty goes to jail for five years and the book starts
[2:14]with her getting out of prison and so she gets out and of course has no one to turn to. Everyone
[2:19]has deserted her so she begs her now adult daughter Rose Gold to take her in and to the shock
[2:25]of everyone in town Rose Gold says yes. And so mother and daughter move in together and Patty
[2:30]insists all she wants is to reconcile she's forgiven her daughter for testifying against her
[2:35]but Rose Gold knows her mother and she knows that Patty always settles the score but the question
[2:40]is how has Rose Gold changed over the five years while Patty's been in prison because she's
[2:44]definitely not the weakling that her mother thinks that she is. So it's a story about obsession
[2:49]and reconciliation and revenge. That's a good description. Thanks I've practiced with a few
[2:54]times. That was a great one. Thank you. Follow that one up. It's so funny because as I was reading
[2:59]every time Rose Gold would let her mother in a little more I was like no okay you can stay
[3:05]here. No okay you can watch the baby. No. I wanted to scream at her but it didn't work.
[3:12]Yeah yeah there's definitely a sense of foreboding because you're not quite sure what she's capable
[3:19]of but yeah yeah obviously you don't really trust me. So what inspired you right this book? How
[3:24]did you come up with the plot? What made you what this is your first novel? Why this?
[3:29]So I first found out about Munchausen by Proxy which is what Patty has from my best friend who's
[3:34]an elementary school psychologist in Colorado and she unfortunately has experience with this
[3:40]syndrome through her work with her students and their parents. So she told me about it and I was
[3:45]immediately like riveted and horrified and I went down this rabbit hole of research
[3:50]and I was really surprised to find that the perpetrators are typically women and often mothers
[3:56]and you know like we think of this mother child bond as sacred but it's not in these cases
[4:00]and I wanted to explore why that was. So it was really even though Rose Gold is the titular character
[4:05]it was really Patty who I was interested in getting in her mindset figuring out does she know that
[4:11]she's lying? Does she honestly believe she's doing what's best for her kids? So it was just kind
[4:15]of the why behind these people's behavior. And did you learn in your research what compels
[4:21]people to act this way? Yeah so it's a desire for love and attention from the medical community so
[4:27]from doctors and nurses. I think that's the most intriguing part is it's not as simple as you know
[4:32]there are different cases which are called malingering where you know you're trying to maybe
[4:36]differ on the hospital or you want like a free make a wish trip or whatever and I think
[4:40]those motivations are awful as well but they're almost more understandable because I guess greed
[4:46]is just a more common I guess concept in society but I think just this notion of needing attention
[4:55]and love from sources because you didn't have it yourself as a child because the perpetrators of
[4:59]MSPB are usually or usually severely abused or neglected themselves as kids. So it's so sad.
[5:05]I know I know some things. No no I mean not a like conversation but yeah it is really I mean it's
[5:11]interesting to think about I'm always fascinated with the nature versus nurture conversation you know
[5:15]there's plenty of people who have horrible childhoods that don't grow up to do this kind of stuff
[5:20]so I'm really interested in why do some people totally you know yeah and then to explore and see it
[5:26]in real you know real life not really real life but to see the effects of that on a child and
[5:31]yeah happens and right and how much of a I mean what hope do they have for their own normal
[5:36]life after that. So when you started when did you start writing this book and how long did it take
[5:42]where did you like to write it home you know all the process all the process stuff.
[5:47]So I wrote my process so I wrote the first draft the summer of 2017 and I was in
[5:55]MFA program at the time at Emerson College in Boston and I ended up getting like tossing that entire
[6:02]first draft except for these two characters. I had a professor who was really nice and offered to
[6:07]read the first hundred pages and he was like this kind of is just reading is a case study of
[6:10]Munchhausen it doesn't really have its own thing and he was right he was completely right and
[6:14]he saved me a lot of time by offering to do that. So then I spent most of 2018 writing what's
[6:20]this you know this final version and I actually wrote this as my thesis for my MFA program
[6:25]and I was really lucky to work with a different professor who really took me under her wing
[6:30]she worked with me all summer like even during her summer break which was really nice of her
[6:35]and then I submitted it as my thesis in November of 2018 and then a few professors suggested that I
[6:41]submitted to agents so I did and now here we are. Oh my gosh yeah so what was that process like from going
[6:47]from student to success with the book and there wasn't there some auction like there was a lot
[6:53]of hubbub around there yeah sale of it right wasn't there some yes in the UK it went to auction
[6:58]which was crazy and amazing and exhilarating but yeah after so I signed with my agent in December
[7:05]and then we went over some we made some kind of small like plot hole type changes and then she
[7:11]took it out under February and it was basically like I think 10 days later I mean she's amazing
[7:17]at her job so I think 10 days later like I all on the same day it was like the UK US and Canada
[7:23]deals all like came to her I was about to have my life I bet yeah it was amazing hold on to that
[7:27]like I can still remember like standing at my table and be like oh my god this is happening so
[7:32]it's so exciting yeah I'm so happy for you that's really awesome thank you it's just so nice
[7:36]to see when hard work pays off like this yeah I mean I definitely was expecting this whole process
[7:42]you know you hear like it takes a really long time to get an agent so I was like really and for
[7:46]the long haul and so it was just such a relief and so surprising that it worked out the way that
[7:50]it did and are you working on anything else now yeah so I'm working on my second book and I've
[7:56]been describing it as a wellness center with some cult like tendencies so it's from three points of
[8:01]view a leader a member and a concerned relative interesting yeah and is it still like you don't know
[8:06]what's going to happen necessarily like is there intrigue yes yeah yeah I like that I really like
[8:14]kind of propulsive nature of the genre you know just this idea of like you can't you think like
[8:20]okay I'll just get to the end of this chapter as a reader and then it's like it's like that's
[8:24]always one the best thing happens you know I really like that kind of structure I love that word
[8:28]propulsive I feel like anything is described as propulsive I'm like yeah I shouldn't say that
[8:35]because now everything will be just I felt like you did such a good job not just with the
[8:39]characters but with developing a sense of place like I really felt like the town that they
[8:43]were describing and how it had been a place where kids used to play on the sidewalks and like much
[8:49]more of a happy village that had sort of gone to disarray especially well she was gone and how
[8:55]she goes back and inhabits this old family home of hers in the house across the street it's like
[8:59]abandoned and like you just get the scent even the supermarket and having that how she has to go
[9:05]two towns over and the small town of it like describe how you picked this particular village in
[9:11]the setting for this story sure so it's completely fictitious it's not based on anywhere but I was I
[9:17]knew I wanted it to be kind of in central southern Illinois which I mean I haven't spent much
[9:22]time there I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago which are very populated but I wanted it to be a
[9:26]really small town and have this very insular feel so that you know Patty it's not as simple for
[9:31]her to get out go back to her hometown and just kind of blend or find new people you know if it's
[9:36]a big enough town you can maybe not everybody would know your story but here like everybody knows
[9:41]her business and so it really puts her in the spotlight which normally she likes but this is
[9:46]an uh she's not used to being you know just completely hated and I think one book that I was really
[9:54]like kind of inspired me as far as like making the town's people a character on their own
[10:00]And we have always lived in the castle by Shirley Jackson,
[10:03]which is this very gothic thriller.
[10:06]And but the townspeople there are just this,
[10:09]they're just so eerie.
[10:10]They're a looming presence,
[10:12]and you can feel them, they're sort of suffocating.
[10:14]And I was hoping to get some sort of semblance of that
[10:17]in this book.
[10:18]Did your own relationship with your family
[10:21]play into this at all?
[10:22]I'm sure not, but no.
[10:24]It's funny, I have started to be,
[10:27]like people have started to ask that occasionally,
[10:29]and I'm like, you can imagine how much my mom enjoys
[10:31]that question, but I mean, I'm sure not,
[10:33]but I just, you know, you can know what your own relationship,
[10:36]like are you closest to your family?
[10:37]I'm very close to my family.
[10:38]My parents are super supportive.
[10:40]So I think I wrote in the acknowledgements,
[10:42]like creating Patty as this monster was a bit more difficult,
[10:46]because I didn't have any of that sort of experience
[10:48]to draw on, but no, it's like we're very close.
[10:51]And they've been so excited and supportive
[10:53]through this whole process, which is really lovely.
[10:55]And tell me about how you live in the UK now
[10:58]and you've moved for your husband back and forth.
[11:00]Like tell me about how you've ended up there
[11:02]in your life and what you think about that.
[11:04]And if it's affected, you're writing it all.
[11:06]Sure, so we moved to London in 2014,
[11:08]so that my husband could go to London Business School,
[11:11]and we thought it was just gonna be a two year thing,
[11:13]but then we both really loved it there.
[11:16]But after his program was finished,
[11:18]then I went to graduate school in Boston.
[11:20]So then we moved to Boston in 2016,
[11:22]lived there for the duration of the program,
[11:24]and he was working remotely for a UK company that whole time.
[11:28]And so then we were looking for an excuse
[11:30]to get back to London.
[11:32]And so he took on a different role at his company
[11:34]so that we're required us to be there.
[11:36]And yeah, we've been living there again since May 2018.
[11:39]So it's been close to four years total,
[11:41]and it really feels like home now.
[11:43]We have our set of friends.
[11:44]We know all the neighborhoods.
[11:45]We just know how everything works now.
[11:47]So, but yeah, how is it influenced my writing?
[11:50]I guess you started to empathize more with people
[11:53]who have been outsiders.
[11:55]I think you know what, certainly the first time
[11:57]that we moved, I really had a hard time finding my footing.
[12:01]You know, when he went to business school,
[12:03]it was immediately like 400 best friends to choose from.
[12:07]And for me, I've discovered I worked in advertising before this.
[12:10]And the industry is really competitive in London.
[12:13]So it was very difficult to,
[12:14]like I couldn't get a salary position the whole time I was there.
[12:17]I was working freelance.
[12:18]And so that was really tough.
[12:20]And I just kind of felt like this was the first time
[12:22]in my life that I was really flailing.
[12:24]And it actually worked out well
[12:26]because this is what led me to apply to grad school
[12:29]because I didn't feel like I had as much to lose.
[12:31]Whereas if I was working, you know, a good job,
[12:33]I don't know if I would have been gutsy enough
[12:36]to kind of just quit my job to,
[12:38]on a whim, try to write a book.
[12:40]But definitely at the time it was,
[12:42]there were feelings of isolation.
[12:45]And I think also I didn't want to tell people back home in the US
[12:49]that I was, you know, lonely or struggling because
[12:51]to them it's like, oh, what an adventure.
[12:53]And you don't want to see them on grateful.
[12:55]And you know, it is of course there were many positives
[12:58]and a lot of really cool stuff.
[12:59]You know, it's in two hours year in Spain or Italy
[13:02]or any number of countries.
[13:03]But there were, it was certainly not without its challenges.
[13:06]And that's like the whole woe is me problem, right?
[13:08]Like because things seem good on the outside,
[13:11]you're not supposed to feel the emotions that you feel
[13:13]which are completely discounted,
[13:15]which I disagree with.
[13:16]You never, I mean, it's hard when you go somewhere
[13:18]you don't have friends yet.
[13:19]I mean, it's always hard.
[13:20]Especially, I mean, I went to business school.
[13:22]And a lot of my closest friends were
[13:24]partners of people in my class of business school.
[13:27]Like the wives or the girlfriends of the guys in my class
[13:29]became like some of my best friends.
[13:31]Who were still some of my best friends.
[13:32]But they always felt kind of marginalized a little bit.
[13:35]Yeah.
[13:36]Because so much of the social life is centered for the students.
[13:39]And yes, they include the partners sometimes.
[13:41]Not all the times.
[13:42]And I don't know if it's a new class citizen.
[13:44]Yeah, you're introduced like as someone's partner,
[13:47]which was a new thing for me.
[13:48]You know, I wasn't used to being like,
[13:50]this is Matt's partner Stephanie.
[13:51]I was like, well, I'm really just like Stephanie on my own.
[13:54]And I think I got to go ahead.
[13:56]No, no, some of the partners had like the coolest careers
[13:59]and jobs and backgrounds ever.
[14:01]But at business school, they're just somebody else's partner.
[14:04]Yeah.
[14:04]And I think I got too hung up initially with being like,
[14:07]no, I want my own friends.
[14:08]You know, like I don't want to make friends
[14:10]through his business school.
[14:11]I want them to be my own friends, which is funny.
[14:13]Because now, you know, four years later,
[14:14]there's still some of my best friends as people
[14:16]that we met through LBS.
[14:18]But you know, you have your pride and you want to do things
[14:21]your way and then you live and you learn.
[14:23]Yeah.
[14:24]But how great that all of it.
[14:25]Yeah, that infection.
[14:26]Yeah, I mean, the lights are their people.
[14:28]Yeah.
[14:29]At the time, it definitely felt like a low point.
[14:31]But honestly, I really don't know.
[14:33]Like if I were still like, I was in Chicago before that,
[14:35]that's where I'm from.
[14:36]I don't know that I would have,
[14:38]yeah, I had the guts to just up and quit my job
[14:40]or tried to balance writing a novel at the same time
[14:44]while working at demanding advertising jobs.
[14:46]So I mean, I'm trying to think if there are people
[14:50]who haven't gone through some sort of pain
[14:52]who have written books, I mean, I feel like there's
[14:54]always something that people are writing about
[14:56]or that they've noticed or that they felt
[14:58]that other people can relate to.
[14:59]Yeah.
[15:00]And it's not like, I don't know.
[15:00]I just feel like it's rare to have a person say,
[15:03]everything in my life is gone through perfectly well.
[15:05]And I decided I'm just going to write a novel for fun.
[15:06]Yeah.
[15:07]Like usually there's something they're trying to work through.
[15:10]I know I'm massively generalizing.
[15:11]So I apologize if I'm offending others by saying that.
[15:14]But I just feel like there's usually something
[15:16]people are wrestling with or interested in or something.
[15:19]Yeah, and I think that's why it's good as much as sometimes
[15:22]I'm like, oh, why didn't I try this earlier?
[15:24]Like why didn't I take this seriously younger?
[15:26]But I do think like you need to have a little life experience
[15:29]under your belt and have gone through
[15:31]like some hardships, some relationships, stuff,
[15:33]you know what I mean?
[15:34]I think that you are young.
[15:35]Well, I mean, I'm not 22.
[15:37]No, okay, fine.
[15:38]I'm in my 30s.
[15:39]Yeah, I know.
[15:39]Yeah, I mean, to me, that's yeah.
[15:41]I mean, I'm all wrong, so I guess.
[15:42]To me, I feel like you're a young.
[15:44]I'm just always impressed when I see very young people
[15:46]because to have that sort of like grip on humanity
[15:49]and just, you know what I mean?
[15:50]Like the sort of general truths of being a person.
[15:53]I think, I mean, at least I didn't have that
[15:56]when I was in my early 20s.
[15:57]I didn't know what the hell I was doing, so yeah.
[16:00]I feel like that's why so many people in their 20s
[16:02]end up writing YA or something, you know,
[16:04]because that's what they know well and that's great.
[16:06]Like write about that.
[16:07]You should write, but it's harder to write about.
[16:10]It's really important too because I feel like for me at least,
[16:12]I can't even remember what it was like at this point
[16:15]to be a teenager.
[16:16]I mean, in a very general way or if I were to read YA,
[16:18]I'd be like, oh yeah, but I just like feel like I don't have
[16:22]access to that time anymore of my life.
[16:24]So it's great to have people who totally do.
[16:27]Yes, do you have any advice to aspiring authors?
[16:31]Sure, so I have three things I've thought about this
[16:33]because I've listened to your podcast.
[16:35]Can you just, I knew this was a question that you asked.
[16:37]Sorry, am I getting a formula?
[16:38]No, it's great.
[16:39]I feel like this is the question that people always want to know.
[16:41]So my first one is to set some sort of writing goal,
[16:46]whether it's number of words or an amount of time per day,
[16:49]per week, per month, because I feel like if you can feel yourself
[16:52]just chipping away at a chapter each time,
[16:54]it's less overwhelming than just thinking,
[16:56]I need to write 90,000 words.
[16:59]My second one is to get qualified feedback.
[17:01]So I think as much as we need to have our button chairs practicing,
[17:06]if you're not getting feedback from somebody who,
[17:08]whether it's a professor, but it doesn't have to be an MFA
[17:11]program, it could just be a workshop or whatever you can manage.
[17:14]I think it's really important to get that feedback
[17:16]because that's how you improve.
[17:18]I mean, I know for me, having this professor
[17:21]just constantly giving me feedback,
[17:22]I improve so much faster than I would have on my own.
[17:25]And the third thing is to treat the business side of publishing
[17:30]as part of the job because it is part of the job.
[17:33]You have to treat it like a small business because it is.
[17:35]And so for me, that meant studying query letters
[17:39]and looking up resources and figuring out how this process worked
[17:42]alongside writing the book.
[17:44]I really don't recommend waiting until you are ready
[17:46]to send the query out to start writing the query.
[17:48]I just kind of treated it as another writing project.
[17:52]And so I went through draft after draft after draft.
[17:54]And then by the time I was actually ready to do it,
[17:56]I felt good about it.
[17:58]So those are my thoughts.
[18:00]Thank you.
[18:01]Thank you for having this.
[18:02]They're ready.
[18:02]This is perfect.
[18:03]You just like everything started on a flatter today.
[18:05]I love it.
[18:06]Well, thank you so much for coming on.
[18:08]And thanks for writing this fantastic book
[18:10]and good luck with the launch and everything else.
[18:12]Thank you.
[18:12]Thanks for having me.
[18:14]You've been listening to moms don't have time to read books
[18:16]with Zibi Owens.
[18:17]Please make sure to sign up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com
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