Sandra Miller, TROVE
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[1:00]Zibi Owens.com. I'm so excited to be interviewing Sandra Miller today. Sandra A Miller is
[1:05]the author of the memoir, Trove, a woman's search for truth and buried treasure, which, by the way,
[1:10]I just loved. She has contributed to more than 100 publications, including the Boston Globe magazine,
[1:16]for which she is a regular correspondent. One of her essays was turned into a short film called
[1:20]Wait, directed by Trudy Styler and starring Carrie Washington. She also wrote award-winning
[1:25]scripts for 11 Central F, a radio comic strip that ran for three years in major public radio markets.
[1:30]She has appeared on the today show another media outlet. She currently teaches English at the
[1:35]University of Massachusetts and lives outside Boston with her husband and two children.
[1:39]Welcome, Sandra. Thanks for coming on mom. So I have time to read books.
[1:43]Thanks for having me. I loved your book, Trove. I really did, and I'm not just saying that.
[1:48]It was so good and hit to so many of the right notes in such a good way. You're such a good writer,
[1:54]and I, literally, I posted this on Instagram, but I finished reading it. I had read most of it.
[1:59]I had the last couple pages left, like maybe last 30 pages that I finished on the elliptical,
[2:03]and I was bawling on the machine. So thank you. Thank you. It's not usually a good thing
[2:08]when I make people cry, but in this case, I think it was. No, it was good. It was good, crying.
[2:12]I love crying. I mean, okay, especially, like, I love feeling emotion based on books and whatever
[2:18]else. So I thought it was great. So thank you. Anyway, could you tell listeners, please, what Trove
[2:22]is about? Sure. So in 2011, my friend David emailed me, and he said he knew of this treasure chest
[2:31]filled with $10,000 in gold coins buried in New York City. And did I want to go with him to dig it up?
[2:37]So it was kind of a tough time in my life. My mom, whom I was quite disconnected from,
[2:43]was very ill. My children were hitting tween hood, so they were outgrowing the need for
[2:48]constant mothering, leaving me sort of a gaping hole in my life. And I was taking out a lot of
[2:53]the stress around my mom and my husband. So it wasn't really, did I know what we're supposed to do?
[3:00]It doesn't that way. Well, it wasn't, it probably wasn't working well for us at that time.
[3:08]So it wasn't the ideal time to go look for treasure in New York City with a guy who wasn't my
[3:13]husband. But I needed to go anyway. It felt like more than a treasure hunt game. And just to clarify,
[3:21]this treasure hunt that we were on, it's an armchair treasure hunt. And it's when a person or a
[3:26]company buries a prize and then sets up a complex series of online clues to reveal the location.
[3:33]So when you think you know where that prize is buried, you have to go dig it up. So I knew that it
[3:40]wasn't the perfect time to do this. But I didn't need to do this because it felt like my quest.
[3:45]It felt like something bigger than just a game. And I decided to go. So I set off with David
[3:53]from Boston to New York City. And we started looking for this treasure chest. And in the process
[4:00]of searching for that treasure chest, I discovered that I was actually on a much deeper
[4:05]for something more than a chest filled with $10,000 in coins. And that really set me on my search both
[4:13]for something I'd been longing for my whole life since I was a little girl, something I'd been
[4:17]searching for since I grew up in this factory town in Connecticut, always filled with yearning for
[4:23]something I couldn't even name. And so the story is really about my two quests. The physical
[4:31]search for gold coins and the internal search for something deeper that I'd been looking for
[4:37]my whole life. Maybe wholeness. So great. You wrote really beautifully in addition to other things
[4:44]about parenting and about your kids. And you don't sugarcoat it. You talk about how your son
[4:51]Finney was cursing all the time after you tried this like parenting experiment where you asked him
[4:55]like curse as much as you can. And then it didn't like get out of his system as you had hoped.
[4:58]You talked about how missing you had to miss one party for your daughter's soccer and your
[5:03]daughter's soccer match and the company party to go to New York on this treasure hunt. And how
[5:08]even though you were there for like 87,000 other things, it became a big deal that you missed
[5:12]the one thing for one thing that you wanted to do for yourself. Can you just talk a little more
[5:17]about sort of the expectations of put on mothers and like how you managed to like slither your
[5:24]way out to get a little slice of, you know, hacking into the ground to find a treasure with like
[5:30]an axe or does it call it shovel? Yeah. So yeah, I'd love to talk about that. So I think women,
[5:37]particularly mothers are always sacrificing for others and they're always adjusting to what their
[5:43]children need, what their family needs. And they don't always prioritize their own needs. And
[5:52]this was a case in which I decided to prioritize my own needs. And it's that's the thing, right? We
[6:05]think we're going to blow up our family if we take this time for ourselves to go to go look for
[6:10]something that we really need to feel complete or to feel to pursue something that will will satisfy
[6:17]us and our lives. And so when we put our own needs ahead of our families, sometimes really great
[6:24]things happen. And in this case, a really great thing happened. It was hard at first. And my family
[6:30]didn't always understand what this quest was that I was on. But eventually they saw that that I
[6:37]was actually, and looking for this treasure, they came to recognize that it was bringing me into a
[6:43]state of wholeness, into a state of happiness. I was going on my journey that was actually essential
[6:51]for my own happiness. So it actually served me well in the end. And I think it was a good model
[6:56]for my children too because as I went through this process of searching for this treasure and then
[7:01]searching for something much deeper in the writing came into this process. I was writing as I was
[7:06]searching. And they saw that I really, really valued the process. They saw that I really
[7:13]wanted to create this book. They saw that I wanted to see it through to completion and publication.
[7:20]And they watched me do it. That was my journey. And they came to cheer me along in the journey.
[7:26]So nice. It was wonderful. And the quote I wanted to read about this section. You said,
[7:30]I once read that people who look for treasure might be trying to replace the emotional fulfillment
[7:35]they didn't get when they were young. As I bussled my own children out the door to their soccer
[7:38]games, I had to wonder what if anything they weren't getting. I tried to give them everything. My time,
[7:43]my attention, my assurance, my love. Because I didn't want them to reach middle age and say,
[7:48]where the hell was mom when we were growing up? For 12 years, I'd been the mother. I'd always wanted
[7:52]prioritizing my children's needs and in the process burying my own. I just had to throw that
[7:57]quote out there because that's so great. So you also wrote beautifully about grief in this book.
[8:03]And in the scene where you find out your father has passed away, you wrote, if I learned anything
[8:08]from those first moments, it said, nothing prepares you for the day you lose your parent. No book,
[8:13]no independent film about grief, no late night conversation over a past bowl of weed or bottle
[8:18]of brandy. You can't possibly know that experience of having your father taken from you until it
[8:23]happens. Oh, I've already like quoted that line to three people. That was like, tell me, tell me about
[8:29]just talk to me about this passage. Sure. That was a day that just burned into me with such hard
[8:36]searing pain. That what I went to write it in the book. It was the easiest scene to write in some ways
[8:41]because of the recall. The recall was right there. It was such a, such a visceral experience,
[8:46]but it was the most painful to write for obvious reasons because I had to, I had to,
[8:51]it was re-traumatizing to write that scene and get that scene right. But I think what happened that day
[8:59]I felt my world tilt. What you don't understand when before you lose a parent is,
[9:07]they root you to the earth, right? They're the reason you're here. They're DNA. They're biology.
[9:13]That's why you exist. And suddenly when they're gone, there's this feeling of uprootedness
[9:18]and I felt really a drift at that time. Particularly that day I went around in a fog. I had to drive
[9:25]three hours home from my college to my home that day. And I remember losing whole chunks of time
[9:31]on the highway that I thought, oh, did I go buy that? Did I take that road already? So I clearly was
[9:37]having some kind of out of body experience. And one of the complicated things about that was
[9:42]I didn't have a close relationship with my dad. And so we, grief is not simple. You know, grief
[9:51]grief doesn't just equal loss in a way or pain in a way that that in the most obvious way.
[9:56]For those of us who have complicated relationships with our parents who then pass.
[10:00]That makes grief very, very hard to navigate.
[10:04]And that's what I found.
[10:05]It happened in that situation.
[10:06]I wasn't grieving the father that I was close to and loved.
[10:10]I was grieving all of the experiences we would never had.
[10:14]I had just turned to 20, and I thought,
[10:17]I never have a chance now to really know him in this life
[10:21]and for us to really be close and love each other.
[10:24]If I have children, he'll never know my children.
[10:26]If I get married, he'll never see you may get married.
[10:28]So it was a very, very complicated experience
[10:33]to grieve my father in that way.
[10:36]And truthfully, it's been 35 years.
[10:39]And while I've healed as I explain in the book and show
[10:42]in the book, there's still this time around Thanksgiving.
[10:47]I call it that day where I just feel this little in my gut.
[10:51]And I remember this is when he was dying,
[10:53]and this is what I lost him.
[10:55]And so the grieving process is so, you know,
[10:58]it's so personal and to each person,
[11:01]depending on their experience, you know,
[11:02]just depending on their relationship with that person.
[11:04]But it was also an important part of my journey,
[11:07]that grief experience, and I write about that in the book.
[11:10]And I feel like you try to find him in different ways
[11:13]through your going to Japan and his diary and all of it.
[11:16]It was like trying to dig into his past, too,
[11:19]as part of your search, like the treasure of, you know,
[11:22]finding more about him and, you know.
[11:24]That connection was so much,
[11:26]I feel like you had some theories about his childhood
[11:28]that you were like poking at,
[11:30]that you were trying to test out with your mom, perhaps,
[11:32]and never really had resolution on, too.
[11:35]Yeah, yeah, my dad was born in 1920.
[11:37]He was one of seven children, six boys,
[11:39]growing up in a German farm family.
[11:41]So you can imagine he went into World War II at 24.
[11:45]And we only now understand the trauma
[11:47]that men experienced or people experienced in war.
[11:50]So I'm sure he suffered some deep, deep traumas
[11:53]that he could never communicate to us.
[11:55]So I have long since forgiven him for him, you know,
[11:59]not being able to love me the way I needed to be loved.
[12:02]And again, it's this part of my journey that the parenting
[12:07]that I had while it was challenging,
[12:09]and I could, you know, I would even say dysfunctional,
[12:12]it was the only parenting I could have had
[12:14]to live this life that I'm living.
[12:16]And I'm grateful for it.
[12:17]I love story with your husband, though.
[12:19]That was pretty great.
[12:20]I won't even go into it, but that was awesome.
[12:23]I'm not spoiling anything.
[12:24]I'm just, you know, okay.
[12:26]So in one scene, when you're searching for treasure
[12:29]in Brooklyn, you say where and you reflect, as a child,
[12:32]it was where the parents are supposed to love me.
[12:35]Later it worked into where is my life's path,
[12:37]the great adventure, the feeling of wholeness.
[12:38]Where, where, where.
[12:40]So right now for you, where is what?
[12:44]What are you looking for now?
[12:45]Where is, finish that?
[12:47]Wow, well, where is the time to do all the things
[12:50]that I want to do right now?
[12:51]But you start to notice that in your 50s, maybe earlier,
[12:55]where I try to be present in my life,
[12:58]but I also feel that clock ticking sometime.
[13:01]And I think, where's the time to see all the shows
[13:06]I want to see spend time with my friends, see my children,
[13:10]cook delicious meals, time to buy something.
[13:13]Read, read, yes, right?
[13:15]We're so distracted.
[13:16]Here's at the same time for reading.
[13:18]But at the same time, the second part of my answer would be,
[13:23]I don't know, square anymore in the same way.
[13:26]I feel like the answer to where has become here,
[13:29]far more so than I would have said even a year ago.
[13:33]And I think I can credit this book journey
[13:37]for a lot of that fulfillment that I feel now.
[13:41]I had to go through that.
[13:42]I had to go through that quest, that treasure hunt,
[13:46]on many different levels.
[13:48]And I had to write about it.
[13:50]And I had to be able to hold my book in my hand.
[13:53]And not everybody needs sort of a concrete physical experience
[13:57]to fulfill them in their lives.
[13:59]But I think I did.
[14:01]And at first, I felt a little bit ashamed of that.
[14:03]Like, can I really feel this satisfaction
[14:06]until I see this through to fruition?
[14:08]And the answer might have been no, but I feel,
[14:11]I feel like I'm much more present now.
[14:14]I'm really, truly deeply satisfied
[14:18]with the outcome of this journey.
[14:20]That's great.
[14:21]So where did you like to write?
[14:23]Give me a little picture of where you wrote most of this book
[14:26]and then how it became an actual published book.
[14:30]OK, sure.
[14:31]So I wrote this book wherever I could,
[14:33]because as I said, there's something
[14:35]retraumatizing about writing memoir.
[14:37]And so it can be quite painful.
[14:41]And what a gift that I have the time in my life to write.
[14:44]And that my life is set up with flexible work,
[14:47]a space to write.
[14:48]I'm not always scrambling after different jobs.
[14:51]So it was a wonderful gift to be able to write this book.
[14:55]And it was a very, very hard book to write.
[14:58]So I thought I would write in my home office.
[15:02]I would write in the basement free from distractions
[15:04]and chocolate.
[15:05]I would write at the cafe because I could get away
[15:08]from said distractions, right?
[15:10]So I would write between classes at work.
[15:13]I teach at a college.
[15:15]And I would just steal any moments where the muse struck.
[15:19]And I would just go at it.
[15:21]And then I would end up, oftentimes, if I had written a hard scene,
[15:25]I'd end up on my home office floor.
[15:28]I wasn't usually crying on the floor of Starbucks,
[15:30]but that might have happened once or twice.
[15:32]But I'd end up on my home office floor crying.
[15:34]And I'd call my sister.
[15:35]She lives in Germany.
[15:37]And I'd say, this is hard.
[15:39]Is this happen?
[15:40]I sort of needed her verifying things
[15:43]that I was writing about that felt so traumatic to me.
[15:46]And she was like, yeah, that sounds about right.
[15:49]And she'd let me cry.
[15:50]And then I hang up in the middle of that.
[15:52]My sister went through ovarian cancer.
[15:54]I read that in the essay era that was so sad.
[15:56]So she's fine now.
[15:58]And she's great.
[15:59]So I went back and forth to Germany three times that year.
[16:01]And I wrote on the plane.
[16:03]So I don't have a set place that I have to write.
[16:07]But I have to write.
[16:08]So wherever I am, I will write.
[16:10]Is there anything that you teach your students
[16:12]that you feel like has helped you the most
[16:14]in the writing process?
[16:16]Well, I say this pretty much every class
[16:19]that if you want to be a writer, you have to be present.
[16:23]And you have to shut off the distractions
[16:26]because of a pretty turbulent times right now.
[16:29]And we are so distracted all the time.
[16:33]So I'm constantly telling them they're not
[16:37]to become writers by looking at Instagram.
[16:39]They're not going to become writers by looking at Facebook.
[16:41]They're going to become writers by writing.
[16:44]And by sitting down in that chair
[16:46]and quieting the distractions
[16:49]and putting fingers to keyboard pen to paper
[16:52]and actually writing.
[16:53]So that's one of the things that I tell them
[16:55]is find time really create a space where you can write.
[17:00]And without those distractions,
[17:02]and tell them a million other things.
[17:04]I don't know if they hear me though.
[17:07]I like to think they do.
[17:08]I like to do some of them too.
[17:10]Yeah, yeah.
[17:11]You wrote this really great Boston Globe essay,
[17:13]which I just thought I hadn't read anything similar
[17:16]so I just wanted to flag it.
[17:17]It was called, I'll miss my son and his friends
[17:19]when he goes to college.
[17:20]And it was all about how a custom dude
[17:22]got into his whole group of friends.
[17:23]It wasn't just him.
[17:24]And you said, yes, I will miss my son something fierce.
[17:27]But I've been anticipating our arrival
[17:29]at this bittersweet junction for 18 years.
[17:31]The surprise right now is realizing
[17:32]just how much I will miss my son's friends,
[17:34]those lovable boys that Finney met in middle school
[17:37]and has been hanging out with often in our house for seven years.
[17:41]It was so sweet.
[17:42]So how has it been with them all that I've gone?
[17:44]Wow, it's funny.
[17:46]The first few weeks my husband and I
[17:48]would come home at the end of the day,
[17:50]it'd be dinner time.
[17:51]And he'd grab a bag of shredded cheese
[17:53]and I'd grab a bag of almonds and we'd sit on the couch.
[17:56]And we'd talk about how much we missed the kids
[17:59]and then we'd switch cheese and almonds.
[18:01]So that went on for a couple weeks.
[18:03]And I calculated once that I probably prepared
[18:07]over 21 years, about 22,000 meals.
[18:10]So I felt like I was allowed a few weeks off.
[18:14]So I took that then.
[18:16]And now we're eating a little more sensibly
[18:19]and we've gotten into a rhythm.
[18:20]So it was hard at first.
[18:22]It was a big, it was a big adjustment.
[18:24]I had this birth, this birth, I had this book
[18:27]that I was giving birth to, just as the children were leaving
[18:31]and my pub date was September 19th.
[18:33]So they were out of the house and two weeks later.
[18:35]I was bringing this, this third.
[18:37]That's perfect.
[18:38]It was perfect.
[18:39]Yeah, I recommendation to empty nesters, right?
[18:42]Make sure you have a pub date.
[18:44]Two weeks after your kids leave,
[18:46]get started maybe five years before.
[18:48]Yeah, even seven years before.
[18:49]Yeah, seven, yeah, seven, seven, yeah.
[18:51]Yeah, well, they're in middle school
[18:52]as a good time to start that.
[18:54]Yeah, so, and you know, it's funny because
[18:56]for the same reasons that I miss them,
[18:59]it's also fantastic to have the space
[19:01]because we have this big, loud, messy,
[19:04]cacophonist connected household
[19:06]and there are always children, other kids coming in
[19:09]and staying for dinner.
[19:10]It's wonderful.
[19:10]I love that.
[19:11]There are always cooking projects, there's always a mess.
[19:14]And with them gone, there's a little bit of space around me
[19:18]that I needed at this time.
[19:21]And I'm really enjoying that space.
[19:23]And my husband and I are getting to know each other again.
[19:25]How's that?
[19:26]That's great.
[19:27]We watched a great British baking show.
[19:29]I don't think I would have discovered that
[19:31]with the kids around.
[19:32]So, no, it's actually really wonderful.
[19:34]I think we're a little worried,
[19:35]is there gonna be this echo chamber in empty-nesterhood
[19:38]but we actually have time to sit, be together,
[19:42]notice that we really love each other.
[19:45]And then we always take plenty of time to miss the kids.
[19:47]So, there's still a lot of that going on.
[19:51]You had an essay become a short film.
[19:53]What was that all about?
[19:54]Wow, that was crazy.
[19:56]That was a really tricky time in my life.
[19:58]I think there's been a couple of tricky times.
[20:00]But it was about 14 years ago.
[20:02]And I had some hard rejections in the writing world.
[20:06]And I thought, do I continue on this path?
[20:09]And I actually prayed for guidance, as I often do.
[20:13]And I had a little talk with the universe.
[20:16]I need a sign if I'm going to go on doing this.
[20:19]Honestly, a week later, I get a call from Glamour Magazine
[20:22]that I've won this contest.
[20:24]My essay has been selected.
[20:26]It's going to be made into a short film, starring
[20:28]Kerry Washington, directed by Trudy Styler, Stings wife.
[20:31]And I fell on my knees on the kitchen floor
[20:36]with this belief and gratitude.
[20:38]It was just amazing.
[20:41]It was unreal.
[20:42]So they made this beautiful little film called Wait.
[20:46]And I got to go to New York for this big red carpet premiere
[20:50]and walked down the runway, or carpet with Kerry Washington
[20:55]and Stings.
[20:56]And it was really a surreal experience.
[21:00]I was on the today's show.
[21:02]And so yanked from my suburban life into this world of Hollywood
[21:08]Glamour fabulous.
[21:10]And it's just four days that we still remember so fondly.
[21:15]But it's really funny about that time.
[21:18]It showed me something, too, that I needed to see.
[21:21]At the end of those four days, we had this red carpet
[21:24]premiere.
[21:25]And at the end of the evening, my husband and I
[21:29]took our car home.
[21:30]We had James as our driver.
[21:32]And we said, because two Chinese restaurants,
[21:35]we got Chinese takeout.
[21:37]And we took it up to our fancy hotel
[21:40]overlooking the East River.
[21:41]And we put on plush white robes.
[21:43]And we sat on the bed, eating Chinese food, and just laughing.
[21:47]And that was really actually the highlight.
[21:52]Having that experience together and saying, wow, this just
[21:54]happened and just sort of connecting beyond all the glips
[21:59]in the Glamour.
[21:59]So that's awesome.
[22:01]It's fun.
[22:02]So now that this book is done, right?
[22:05]You checked off the milestone.
[22:07]It's come full circle.
[22:09]Now what do you still want to write another book?
[22:12]Is this the be-all-end-all?
[22:14]What do you foresee in the future?
[22:16]I think it's just the beginning, actually.
[22:18]So I've been talking to a lot of people
[22:20]about this book, doing a book tour.
[22:22]And people are really interested, particularly women,
[22:25]in this idea of a quest or a treasure hunt.
[22:28]And a lot of people don't know where to begin.
[22:31]And so I started a book called Dig Here,
[22:36]finding a truth in treasure in your life.
[22:38]So working title.
[22:40]So it instructs people on how to begin that journey,
[22:44]how to be a little selfish, how to take time for themselves,
[22:47]for exactly the reasons we were talking about before that women
[22:50]don't always know how to do this or forget that they can
[22:53]or don't never learned that they can.
[22:55]And so I'm working on that.
[22:56]I'm really enjoying the promotion around the trove.
[23:00]I've wanted this for a long time.
[23:02]And it's here now.
[23:03]So I'm just savoring every minute of it.
[23:07]And yeah, I also like the satisfaction of writing essays
[23:11]in short pieces and articles.
[23:12]I like feature writing.
[23:13]I like digging into lives, other people's lives.
[23:16]So I feel like, gosh, I'm just getting started.
[23:20]It's a great feeling.
[23:21]It's a great feeling.
[23:23]Yeah, yeah.
[23:24]That's awesome.
[23:25]I keep saying that's awesome.
[23:25]That's not awesome.
[23:26]That's amazing.
[23:27]I think it's awesome, too.
[23:28]I think it's awesome, too.
[23:29]Sorry, it's an amazing year myself.
[23:31]So you already kind of touched on this,
[23:33]but any other advice to aspiring authors
[23:35]I know you've talked to what you said to your students,
[23:37]but maybe somebody, even on the publication side of things,
[23:41]or just getting through some of the time you mentioned
[23:44]that you were really doubting yourself,
[23:46]how do you decide from getting a huge movie deal
[23:49]or whatever, how do you give yourself going?
[23:52]How do you encourage people to stay with it?
[23:56]Well, I think there are a couple parts to that.
[23:58]And the first is believe.
[24:02]You have to have faith in what you're doing
[24:04]and in your project.
[24:06]Because if you go to your desk every day and say,
[24:08]all right, now I'm going to work on my crappy little memoir
[24:12]that nobody's going to buy.
[24:14]Here goes another useless day,
[24:16]which plenty of people do, I think, right?
[24:19]They're very jaded because we're in a fiercely competitive
[24:23]time right now.
[24:24]And there's a lot of good writing out there.
[24:26]There are a lot of people submitting work.
[24:28]There are a lot of people writing books and memoirs.
[24:30]So mediocre isn't going to cut it.
[24:33]And so you have to believe in that project.
[24:36]And I feel like if you have a project
[24:38]that you can actually get behind,
[24:41]you can feel body, heart and soul.
[24:45]That's your project, work on that project.
[24:47]Don't give up on that project.
[24:49]So I go down to my basement room every day.
[24:52]I do a lot of energy work.
[24:54]And I spend a lot of time in the spiritual world.
[24:56]I love the physical world.
[24:57]I love all the wonderful gifts in this lifetime.
[25:00]But I also am really fascinated by the things
[25:02]that we can't see.
[25:03]So I'm interested in psychics.
[25:05]I'm interested in spirituality.
[25:07]I'm interested in belief systems.
[25:09]I meditate a lot.
[25:11]And every morning, I go downstairs
[25:13]into my spiritual space.
[25:15]And I do 15 minutes of meditation, at least.
[25:17]And then I put on some upbeat song.
[25:20]And I act out exactly what I want to have
[25:25]happen in my day.
[25:28]So I have put on fantasy by earthwind and fire.
[25:31]And I have signed books for imaginary people.
[25:34]I have given talks to auditorium filled
[25:37]with hundreds of people in my basement room
[25:40]in my fantasy world.
[25:41]So I believe you bring that experience into your life.
[25:45]You pull it out of your imagination
[25:47]and you bring it into your body.
[25:49]And you feel it, you believe it.
[25:52]And you can make it happen.
[25:54]Nothing's going to stop you from making that happen.
[25:56]So that's one thing that I do.
[25:58]Then I go upstairs and I work really hard.
[26:02]And it's not enough to believe in your project.
[26:05]It's not enough to imagine it.
[26:07]It's not enough to play earthwind and fire
[26:09]and want it to come to be.
[26:11]You actually have to do the work.
[26:12]So that combination of belief and hard work,
[26:16]this is a money back guarantee, honestly,
[26:19]that that will get you where you want to be.
[26:23]It will not always happen the way you want it to happen.
[26:25]It won't always happen on your time schedule,
[26:27]because I actually wanted this to happen four years ago.
[26:30]And it didn't happen four years ago.
[26:32]But it happened at the exact right time.
[26:34]It happened when I had space in the empty nestle hood.
[26:38]It happened after my daughter was launched at college.
[26:40]And so thank you, universe.
[26:42]Good, you know, you knew better than I did.
[26:44]So that's what I would say to anybody
[26:47]who's despairing or feels uncertain.
[26:51]Don't wobble.
[26:52]Don't wobble.
[26:53]Keep the faith and do the work and watch.
[26:56]Magic.
[26:57]Oh, that was awesome.
[26:59]That was fantastic.
[27:01]Thank you so much.
[27:02]Thank you for coming on mom's Don't Have Time to eat books.
[27:04]Thanks for this amazing book that is really,
[27:07]really inspiring and beautiful and well-written.
[27:10]And just, it's really fantastic.
[27:12]So thank you for, thank you.
[27:13]It's been a pleasure.
[27:14]Thanks.
[27:15]Thanks for listening to mom's Don't Have Time to Read books,
[27:18]the award-winning podcast.
[27:20]Today's episode of mom's Don't Have Time to Read books
[27:22]was sponsored by pediatrician in your pocket
[27:25]by Dr. Jennifer Tractenberg, Dr. Dash Jen.com,
[27:29]and your code PIP20, PIP20, for 20% off of these
[27:34]can't miss modules that will make your parenting life
[27:37]so much easier.
[27:38]You can follow me on Instagram at mom's Don't Have Time
[27:41]to Read books.
[27:42]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[27:45]for the sound editing.
[27:46]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[27:48]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[27:51]Thanks for listening.
[27:51]You can always email me at zibiadzibiowans.com.