Tui Sutherland, THE HIDDEN KINGDOM
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[1:10]I'm really, really excited to be here today with Tui Sutherland, who's the author of The New York Times
[1:15]in USA Today Best Selling Wings of Fire, Graphic Novel, and Young Adult Series,
[1:19]the Menagerie Trilogy, and the Pet Trouble Series.
[1:22]She's also a contributing author to the Best Selling Spirit Animals and Seekers series.
[1:26]Combined, she's written 40 books for children's and teens.
[1:30]Originally from Venezuela, Tui grew up in Paraguay,
[1:32]Miami, the Dominican Republic, and New Jersey.
[1:35]The graduate of Williams College, she currently lives in Massachusetts with her husband,
[1:38]and two sons, and two dogs.
[1:40]So welcome to Tui.
[1:41]Thank you.
[1:41]Thank you so much.
[1:42]I'm so excited to be here.
[1:43]And I have a guest interviewer with me today.
[1:46]My son Owen will be interviewing Tui with me because he is the one who is obsessed with your
[1:52]books and has been begging me to buy each graphic novel of The Wings of Fire series,
[1:56]as it comes out, pre-ordering everything, and was like,
[1:59]do you think you could talk to her?
[2:00]So this is my gift to Owen today, and everybody else listening, so that's awesome.
[2:06]So before we even get into your Wings of Fire books,
[2:10]you were a two-day champion on Jeopardy in 2009.
[2:14]Let's just talk about that, because that is so cool.
[2:17]Tell us all about that.
[2:18]How did you get on Jeopardy?
[2:20]And what was it like being a two-day champion?
[2:22]That's the coolest thing ever.
[2:24]Sure.
[2:25]Oh my god, it was so much fun.
[2:26]Actually, I just wanted to stay after I lost the third game.
[2:30]I was just like, can I just, do you know how to give me anywhere money?
[2:32]Can I just stay here and keep playing?
[2:35]Because it was really, it was just amazing.
[2:37]So it was one of those things that I'd always wanted to do.
[2:39]My grandparents, whenever we visited them in New Hampshire,
[2:42]they watched Jeopardy every single night.
[2:44]Like, they had their little TV trays and they would watch Jeopardy.
[2:47]And so it was part of my childhood.
[2:49]Like, I just felt like it was this really important thing in life,
[2:52]and I always wanted to go on it.
[2:54]And then I got married in 2007 and we started talking about having kids.
[2:58]And I was like, well, I have two things I want to do before I have kids.
[3:01]And one is go to India and the other one is beyond Jeopardy.
[3:04]And so I looked into it and how the whole process worked.
[3:07]And it turned out that you could take like a test online.
[3:10]And that's the first step in the process.
[3:12]It's like a few times a year they have this like online test you take.
[3:15]And if you score well enough on the online test, they give you a call or an email.
[3:20]And they invite you in to take one in person.
[3:22]So they have like town scouts that go around.
[3:24]And like there's, so they had like a session in Boston where you go in and you take another
[3:28]test kind of along the same lines.
[3:29]It's Jeopardy-ish questions.
[3:31]And then they also have you get up and like play a couple of pretend games just to basically
[3:35]make sure you can make sentences and remember to answer the form of a question that kind of thing.
[3:41]So that was really fun.
[3:42]And then I didn't know what would happen.
[3:44]I just kind of waited for a while.
[3:45]And then they call you and say, all right, you have three weeks like can you be in California
[3:50]in like a month basically?
[3:51]And I was, yes, so excited.
[3:53]And I started studying.
[3:56]Wait, how do you study for Jeopardy?
[3:57]Yeah.
[3:58]Well, for me, there were certain, there's a lot of things that I think you kind of,
[4:01]you have to have faith that you know what you know.
[4:03]But there were certain things I knew that I could learn in that time,
[4:06]like all the capitals of the world, the presidents in order was actually really helpful.
[4:11]Because a lot of times the question would be something like this 16th president,
[4:15]bloody, bloody, blah, you don't even need to hear the rest of the question.
[4:17]If you remember that that's Abraham Lincoln, right?
[4:20]I can't do it all now, but I used, I was a for a while.
[4:22]I could name all the presidents in order and kind of vaguely what time period they were.
[4:26]Because it's like in 1848, this president said you'd be like, okay, that guy.
[4:30]So that was helpful.
[4:31]And then I sort of tried.
[4:32]I watched some like documentary on like rock music because I have this giant hole
[4:37]in my knowledge before like 1980 from music.
[4:41]And that was actually kind of helpful.
[4:42]There was one final Jeopardy question that was about the Beatles.
[4:46]And I had actually just been watching a documentary that morning in the hotel room.
[4:50]And I wouldn't have gotten it right otherwise.
[4:52]Oh my gosh. Was it as exciting as you had hoped it would be to be on the show?
[4:56]Yeah, it totally was.
[4:57]Everyone there is so nice.
[4:59]Oh my god, all the people backstage are just like wonderful having a lovely time and
[5:03]super welcoming.
[5:05]And they just made it really fun for you to be there.
[5:07]I actually, I got, I won like a random ticket when I was in college to go watch Jeopardy
[5:12]being filmed and that was like one of the most exciting moments of college for me.
[5:15]No, that's not true.
[5:16]But it was a really cool moment.
[5:18]Anyway, well, I just thought that was really neat.
[5:20]So obviously you're a genius and that's amazing.
[5:23]So we can move on from there now that we've established that.
[5:26]But though I had a clarify that that was before I had kids like when my brain still worked.
[5:33]That was much anymore.
[5:34]Yeah, seriously.
[5:35]The fact that Abraham like Mr. 16th president is pretty much the only piece of trivia I have retained
[5:41]since I met kids.
[5:42]Yeah, I get that one reinforced because my son has the same birthday as Abraham Lincoln.
[5:46]And he's the one who talked about a lot.
[5:48]So speaking of our sons, let's talk about this book that has Owen, you know, just totally
[5:54]fascinated and making him really into reading, which is a gift that you've given our whole family.
[6:00]Tell me about the Wings of Fire series in particular.
[6:03]What inspired you to write it?
[6:04]And how you even got into writing fantasy and all the books that you've written.
[6:09]Sure.
[6:09]Wow.
[6:10]That was a big question.
[6:11]So you can check that a part of you want.
[6:14]Sure.
[6:14]Well, Wings of Fire.
[6:16]So I'd written a bunch of books before Wings of Fire, as you mentioned.
[6:19]And I think sort of a unifying theme of all of them is I really am interested in telling stories
[6:24]from different perspectives, like kind of focusing on like my whole pet trouble series.
[6:29]Each book is a different kid, but they all know each other.
[6:31]So when you read one book, you'll see the other characters and you'll kind of find out more about
[6:35]them like as you read their books.
[6:37]So that was one thing that I was really interested in.
[6:39]And I also really just love writing fantasy.
[6:41]I've always read fantasy.
[6:42]I find it really just one of the most fun genres to read.
[6:46]I read everything, but that's my favorite.
[6:48]And I guess I had, so with Wings of Fire, it sort of started with my agent and I were talking
[6:53]about all of my ideas for different projects.
[6:55]And he said, you know, have you ever thought about doing something that was like focused on
[6:59]dragons because he knew that I love dragons.
[7:02]And you know, as with them is the heroes of the story.
[7:04]And I immediately got excited because it kind of fit into those themes I've been thinking about
[7:09]where I like, you know, all the books that I read, the humans were the heroes of the story.
[7:13]And like the dragons were there, but they were the sidekicks or the transportation or the bad guys.
[7:18]And they never got to be like the center hero.
[7:21]And so I thought wouldn't it be interesting to write a whole series where the dragons get
[7:24]to tell their own stories.
[7:25]And I thought that would be just really fun to do.
[7:28]And then I started thinking about it.
[7:29]And it was actually the first book I was sort of outlining the idea for the first five books
[7:35]right around when I had my first kid.
[7:37]And that I think really affected what the themes of the series ended up being.
[7:41]It ended up being a lot about like what, you know, how does your childhood shape your choices
[7:46]and your destiny and how do like different kinds of parents like shape the kids or like who else
[7:51]you're growing up with.
[7:52]So the first five are about those five little dragons in the cave who are taken away from their
[7:56]original families.
[7:58]And then they are growing up together under this mountain because they're supposed to fulfill
[8:01]this prophecy according to, you know, a bunch of older dragons who want to tell them what to do.
[8:06]And so that question of what's nature, what's nurture, how does parenting affect,
[8:11]you know, your destiny and also like, can you choose your own destiny no matter how you were
[8:16]made?
[8:17]I think that's actually, I keep joking about this, but saying that I think that I'm writing these
[8:20]books to sort of reassure myself that no matter how badly I parent, at least I won't be like
[8:24]queen scarlet, right?
[8:25]And my kids will probably still be able to save the world is what I'm hoping.
[8:30]So that's sort of how, that's sort of the beginning of thinking about it.
[8:33]Oh, and have you read like up through book 13?
[8:34]Are you mostly making the graphic novel?
[8:36]Well, I had started by reading the first five not graphic novel.
[8:41]Oh, and then I started drifting away from reading.
[8:46]And then when I went back, you were already on like book 10.
[8:50]So I had it like, and then I found out there's a graphic novel, and I was like, overjoyed,
[8:55]read them all in like one day.
[8:58]And now that I'm like waiting, counting the days to the next one comes out.
[9:02]Awesome.
[9:03]And I also love how the names of the dragons all kind of relate to the kind of wings they are.
[9:09]Like clay is the mud wing and like tsunamis, the seaweed, like water and sunnies,
[9:15]sandwing, lorries, they're rolling, and Starfleet is the night wing.
[9:18]I thought I was really clever.
[9:20]And how so far they've all been disappointed when they've seen their real families.
[9:25]Oh, yeah.
[9:26]I'm trying to think like what happens next.
[9:28]But yeah, that was a big part of it that like they have these expectations,
[9:31]and then put the name much to the reality like, yeah.
[9:34]And that's cool.
[9:35]I would spend a long time thinking about the names because when I first dove into the series,
[9:39]I was like, oh, it's a big fantasy series.
[9:41]I'll give them all like crazy fantasy names that are just a bunch of syllables mashed together.
[9:46]And then as I was writing it, I started thinking about readers like my editor,
[9:51]who is amazing, but has trouble keeping track of all the dragons because she's a grown-up,
[9:55]and kids are way better at it than we are.
[9:58]And so I was like...
[10:00]What if I could identify them at least when you read their name,
[10:03]you know, at least what tribe they are.
[10:05]And hopefully it'll help you kind of connect to like where they come from.
[10:08]And it'll help you identify the dragons all the way through.
[10:10]So that was, yeah, that was a big part of sort of figuring out the world building for me.
[10:14]It was like, well, what kinds of names would each tribe have?
[10:16]And how will that help readers figure out like where they come from?
[10:19]Yeah.
[10:20]And with the graphic novel and the prose, I don't know what,
[10:25]what do you call the difference, the young adult version?
[10:27]Is your intention that people can go back and forth?
[10:29]Like, oh, and we're saying he read one through five,
[10:31]and then he skipped graphic novels.
[10:33]Are they basically the same stories you can go?
[10:35]The graphic novels are like the same boxes from the beginning to go and graphic novels.
[10:40]But like, so I'm holding, which number is this, book 13, but this is book three.
[10:46]But so she went over the series in graphic novels.
[10:50]So you condense it.
[10:51]Yeah, basically the way the process works is we have an adapter
[10:55]who's written a lot of graphic novels, who first his name is Barry, and he's amazing.
[10:59]He reads the novel for book one.
[11:01]And he writes out like a graphic novel script is what it's called,
[11:05]with the panel by panel, the dialogue, and suggestions for the artist.
[11:09]And then I go through that and I make sure that it includes everything.
[11:12]Because he hasn't read all the way through book 13.
[11:14]So I'll be like, oh, wait, this is actually really important.
[11:17]And it comes up later.
[11:18]Can we make sure to mention this?
[11:20]I'll change some of the dialogue.
[11:21]And usually I'm adding a lot of dialogue back in, because I like having
[11:26]all of my words as many words as possible.
[11:28]Because that's so neat.
[11:29]Like I wouldn't even have known that that was a job, that there's a person out there
[11:32]who takes books and adapts them to graphic novels.
[11:35]Like how cool?
[11:36]Don't you think it's cool?
[11:37]Well, yeah.
[11:37]He writes his own graphic in your job in life.
[11:40]Now you know, there's another option out there.
[11:44]Yeah, well, actually what I thought was amazing to discover.
[11:46]So first of all, let me just say Barry writes his own graphic novels too.
[11:49]Like he's a great artist, like author in his own right too.
[11:52]So then there's Mike who does all the art for the graphic novels.
[11:55]But then there's also yet another person, her name is Marta, who comes in and
[11:59]adds all the colors.
[12:00]So there's like her job is just coloring the graphic novel.
[12:04]And I thought that was so amazing.
[12:05]And she does such a good job.
[12:06]I mean, she's also an artist like she does her own art as well.
[12:09]And she's really talented.
[12:10]But it was really fun to discover that that was a job.
[12:12]Like, wow, who colors the graphic novels.
[12:15]I feel like now I can have like a family production team with all my different kids.
[12:19]I've got one who's really good at coloring.
[12:21]This is going to be great.
[12:22]Maybe we'll be a graphic novel producing by the end of this vacation.
[12:26]It's the yeah, it's pretty, my mom loves graphic novels.
[12:31]They can color that's right, you know, and it could be a creative graphic novel.
[12:37]They don't have to stay inside the lines.
[12:39]My son loves graphic novels.
[12:41]He draws a lot.
[12:41]He's in a like comics class.
[12:43]They all look a little bit like dog man.
[12:47]You know, he's working out his style.
[12:49]It's pretty cute.
[12:50]So I noticed from your bio that you've moved around a ton as a child.
[12:54]And I was wondering how do you think that's impacted the way that you see the world?
[12:58]Do you think that there's any part of you that wants to create these fantasy worlds
[13:02]to give some sort of consistency, or maybe you didn't have one in your own childhood
[13:07]and place that you can like make a place where your characters can stay.
[13:10]And it's all within your own control.
[13:12]This is my psychological theory of you, by the way.
[13:15]Yeah, I really like that as an overarching theory of Tui.
[13:20]I mean, I do think that moving that much, there were a couple of effects.
[13:23]One is that I read a lot because that was like the friend I could find anywhere.
[13:28]You know, I could, you know, no matter where we lived, I could go to the library
[13:31]and find Anne of Green Gables.
[13:32]So I was very attached to the books I read.
[13:35]I'd also made me really close friends with my sister because she was the only person I knew no matter where we went.
[13:39]Like, so we became really best friends.
[13:41]My mom likes to talk about how living in places like Paraguay, we didn't have television.
[13:46]And so we had to use our imaginations.
[13:48]So I think she takes a lot of credit for me being an author now.
[13:52]So if I take the TV away, my kids will become amazing, best-selling fantasy writers.
[13:57]Nope.
[14:01]So that's my mom's theory.
[14:02]I don't know that I agree because right now I'm a huge TV themed.
[14:05]Like I watched so much TV and I actually love watching TV with other people.
[14:09]Like my husband or my kids and talking about it because I feel like you can learn a lot from the storytelling
[14:14]about storytelling and structuring stories from TV.
[14:17]I mean, I feel like I wouldn't be the writer I am right now if it weren't for Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
[14:23]My show and I loved it so much.
[14:25]And I think it changed me in terms of like serious topics, like relatable characters, but also really funny.
[14:30]Like those sort of kind of combination that it did so well.
[14:34]I think it's partly like what I'm going for really in my own writing.
[14:37]But yeah, I think moving a lot, you know, it did make us have to like create our own sort of world wherever we went.
[14:44]And I both we did a lot of imaginative play and a lot of reading.
[14:48]And you've actually collaborated with her to write the whole menagerie trilogy as well.
[14:53]So tell me how is that process?
[14:54]How do you feel about it sounds like for the graphic novels, you're also collaborating with lots of people.
[14:58]It's a huge team effort.
[14:59]But what's it like writing with your sister like that?
[15:02]Well, that's probably the most collaborative of anything because we were really trying to co-write it together.
[15:07]And the original idea was hers.
[15:09]She was the first person to say like, wouldn't it be cool to do a series about a Zoom full of mythical creatures?
[15:13]Oh, and you haven't read those, right?
[15:15]Have you read those?
[15:16]No.
[15:16]In an address, you know, that's okay.
[15:17]I just wondered.
[15:19]No, we're going to order them right now.
[15:20]Sorry.
[15:21]That's okay.
[15:22]I don't know.
[15:23]I don't know.
[15:24]No, they're not graphic novels.
[15:25]Sorry, okay.
[15:26]You can still read books.
[15:27]It's okay.
[15:30]You can't.
[15:31]My kids the same way.
[15:32]Like, actually, my kids did not read my books.
[15:34]They're kind of like, maybe one day, mom.
[15:37]Wait for you, wait a time.
[15:38]And between all the dogman books.
[15:41]With Menagerie, yeah, Cara said, Mythical Zoo full of mythical creatures.
[15:46]And I said, that would be amazing.
[15:47]Like, why don't we write it together?
[15:48]Let's just like do it.
[15:49]And so we brainstormed a lot of the sort of concept together in terms of like the characters.
[15:54]We knew we wanted one kid who worked in the Menagerie,
[15:57]because like how cool would it be to wake up every morning and have to go do
[15:59]all like dragons and Phoenixes and unicorns?
[16:02]Those are your chores for the day.
[16:04]But then also like keeping it secret at school, you can't tell anyone.
[16:07]Like, there's a reason why your backpack smells like wet mammoth, you know?
[16:11]That's very hard to explain.
[16:14]And then we also wanted to have the perspective of a kid who's discovering the Menagerie
[16:18]for the first time, because like that experience of walking in and being like,
[16:21]what is this magical place?
[16:22]And actually, it starts with him finding one of the griffin cubs under his bed,
[16:26]because they've escaped from the Menagerie.
[16:29]And Zoey is trying to get them all back, and Logan manages to help her do that.
[16:32]So we kind of worked that out.
[16:33]And then we had some big mysteries.
[16:36]Yeah, there are a few others now about like mythical creatures that I think, you know?
[16:40]But it was really fun to figure out which creatures we wanted in the series to include
[16:44]in the zoo, and also the big mysteries.
[16:46]So there's like one mystery that's resolved in book one, but there's others that carry
[16:49]over into books two and three.
[16:51]And for the actual writing process, mostly I would write something and send it to her
[16:54]and she would edit it.
[16:55]She was an editor at the time as well.
[16:57]She was an editor for a long time in New York City, and she has incredible instincts.
[17:01]And now she's an agent, actually.
[17:03]And she's wonderful.
[17:04]I mean, I think she's the best, so I will be calling her after this.
[17:08]No, I'm kidding.
[17:10]She's very cool.
[17:14]And I mean, she mostly works in young adults.
[17:16]She has a lot of cool young adult authors that are coming up, but it was really fun
[17:20]to work with her and figure out like how the mysteries would develop.
[17:23]And whenever I get stuck, I could call her like G-Chatter, we could figure out the mystery
[17:27]together.
[17:28]That's so cool.
[17:29]It was a fun process.
[17:30]So let's talk about names for a second.
[17:32]So first of all, your name, Tui, is actually a bird in New Zealand.
[17:36]Is that right?
[17:37]Do you have to have some bird?
[17:38]How do you feel about that?
[17:39]Because I've had kind of a rough time growing up as Zibi and having to explain that name?
[17:43]Because you always have to spell it, and it's sort of a pain, and no one's heard of it.
[17:47]Have you had...
[17:48]And do they always ask if it's short for something?
[17:49]Right.
[17:50]Yeah.
[17:51]What is it?
[17:52]Well, my name is short for Elizabeth, but...
[17:53]Oh, okay.
[17:54]I get that all the time, and mine's not short for anything, so I always have to explain
[17:57]no, it's not.
[17:58]Yeah.
[17:59]It's a kind of bird.
[18:00]I guess actually what's interesting is my parents knew another Tui.
[18:02]That was where they think of a name from.
[18:04]In Venezuela, somehow.
[18:06]I think they just like the sound of it, so it is definitely like, you know, especially
[18:10]at loud parties.
[18:11]It's the worst when you're like trying to yell your name in somebody's ear, and they're
[18:14]like, Julie, and you're like, no, that's not, well, okay, fine, I don't know.
[18:19]But I think it also is, there's something kind of cool about the uniqueness of it.
[18:23]Like, I just, I do like being the only Tui that anybody knows pretty much.
[18:27]And actually, it's funny, growing up, part of my plan was to get famous enough that
[18:31]people would start naming their children after me, and then there'd be other Tui's
[18:34]in the world.
[18:35]Well, it looks like you're on the right track.
[18:38]That's pretty impressive.
[18:39]Yeah.
[18:40]But yeah, maybe one day.
[18:42]But you still chosen to write lots of books under pseudonyms, under pen names.
[18:47]So why did you do that?
[18:48]Why did you choose to do that?
[18:50]So there's actually, it's kind of funny, because there's a different excuse for each
[18:53]one.
[18:54]Like, there was a reason behind each pseudonym, they're all slightly different.
[18:57]But I think the main reason is that, so I was an editor for a while at a couple of companies
[19:02]in New York.
[19:03]And when I left to write full time, like, basically, when I wanted to, it was just right
[19:06]as much as possible.
[19:07]I had a couple of things that were sort of my pet projects that had my name on them.
[19:12]But I also, I knew a lot of people in publishing, and they would ask me, like, do you
[19:16]want to work on this project or that project?
[19:18]And I would say yes to everything, because I figured it was all good practice, and it
[19:21]was all making me a better writer.
[19:23]And especially like the ones where I was trying to write in a particular style.
[19:27]So for instance, the Warrior series, which is the one, it's the series about cats and
[19:31]the wild having adventures.
[19:33]Yeah, so that's it.
[19:34]Have you seen those?
[19:35]Yeah.
[19:36]There's a lot of them now.
[19:37]So I was the editor when it first started, and then when I left, so we had three authors
[19:41]to begin with, one, who would come up with a story, and then two, who would take turns
[19:44]writing the books.
[19:46]And then they asked me to join the team because the books were doing really well.
[19:49]And so they wanted more Aaron Hunter, basically, to Aaron Hunter was a made-up name in general.
[19:53]And so, like, learning to adapt my voice to that style, or I also wrote a couple of little
[19:58]house spin-offs, a little house on the paper.
[20:00]That was my favorite series as a little girl.
[20:04]Absolutely.
[20:05]Yes, obsessed.
[20:06]Oh, yeah.
[20:07]It's so cute.
[20:09]I was really fun working on them.
[20:10]You had to do all this research about the real Laura and the real Nellie Olsen and Almondo and what happened to him because one of them is about what happened to Almondo between farmer boy and when he meets Laura.
[20:20]And so doing all the research for that was amazing.
[20:23]And also made me realize, like, Laura had left me all these problems because she changed a bunch of things in farmer boy, like the ages of all his siblings.
[20:31]And so in order to make things make sense in the rest of his life, I had to, I mean, I had to stick with what was in farmer boy, but like they were all the wrong age.
[20:39]I don't know.
[20:41]It was a little things like that, but it was really, it was really fascinating.
[20:44]And also, like her, I think actually Laura Ingalls Wilder has a very different like voice than I do, certainly.
[20:50]Like it's much more, it's simple and it's a lot of like physical descriptions and not a lot of like, you know, witty banter between like dragons.
[20:58]It's a very different kind of style, but I think I learned a whole lot from trying to adapt my voice to hers for those two bucks.
[21:05]Like I think it just made me a better writer to get to practice in all those different styles.
[21:09]And so for that one, they asked me to come up with a pseudonym that would be shelved next to Wilder on the bookshelf so that I need to come up with a last name to start with WIL.
[21:18]And so I think really, I'm just because that's where I went to college.
[21:21]And then the first name that I said made me tomorrow, which is my middle name and they were like, do anything that sounds a little more like Prairie Girl.
[21:28]So I went with Heather because it's my sister's middle name.
[21:31]So that's like, that's just a couple of them.
[21:34]And basically, I think the main reason I would say is that I was just saying yes to all these projects that sort of like practice for my rating.
[21:40]And so it ended up that a lot of them involve pseudonyms.
[21:43]So where do you write?
[21:45]Where and when do you right now? Do you go somewhere to write? Do you write in your own office?
[21:49]Am I looking, we're on Skype now, but I'm like, looking for the back of your office. Is this where all the magic happens?
[21:54]I was going to say yes exactly. I don't know. This is interesting for you all in, but this is the office where I work.
[21:59]You can see I have like bookshelves with some of my favorite writing books, books I'm planning to read. My own books are up there.
[22:06]And some of my favorite books back here. And then over my desk, I have like copies of the covers so that I can look up and think about like,
[22:14]items. And I have the map right in front of me as well. I find the map really useful sort of like as I'm figuring out like, oh, where are they and how are they going to get?
[22:22]Yeah.
[22:23]Are they going to need help with anything? Just call me.
[22:25]That's awesome.
[22:28]You ever need anyone to proofread your reading before you give it out? Just give me a call.
[22:33]Hey.
[22:34]Excellent.
[22:35]I mean, I just love your book. You've liked that a lot.
[22:38]Look at your amazing. I want to wait to like all of them come out.
[22:43]Thank you.
[22:44]So if you've just actually read books one through five, the next one that's coming out, it's not book 14.
[22:50]It's a book that's set during books one through five. It's kind of going back to that same time period.
[22:54]Which one?
[22:55]And it's all about the young.
[22:56]Which one?
[22:57]It's coming up.
[22:58]But with time periods, like what's it about?
[23:00]It starts around about when it's like right before the prophecy starts and then it goes all the way through to the end of book five.
[23:08]Yeah, it is.
[23:09]It could be a little more around there.
[23:11]Yeah.
[23:12]Yeah.
[23:13]And it's sort of like you don't have to have read the other books to read this one because it's a standalone.
[23:16]And actually this one is from the point of view of the humans.
[23:19]Yeah.
[23:20]So, um, start reading them now.
[23:21]What?
[23:22]What is this one going to be called?
[23:24]It's called Dragon Slayer.
[23:25]Oh, yeah.
[23:26]It's like I don't know.
[23:27]Oh, and if you've seen the book Darkstalker.
[23:28]Oh, yeah.
[23:29]I saw that one.
[23:30]I didn't read it though.
[23:31]Yeah.
[23:32]That's okay.
[23:33]This one.
[23:34]You shouldn't read this one until you've read books like six and seven.
[23:35]Because this one is connected to like what happens.
[23:37]My dad needs to order them all for me, which is amazing.
[23:40]So when I go back to the studio, I'm just going to grab them all and go to Boyne's
[23:43]going to like read them all and then wait for the new comics to come out.
[23:47]Like the comics are just like the best thing ever.
[23:50]Because I'm actually so excited.
[23:52]That's why the teachers used to always give us books and I hated them.
[23:56]So it proved me away from reading.
[23:58]And then I finally found it wings of fire.
[24:00]And then it got me right back into reading.
[24:02]Oh, that's awesome.
[24:03]I do think that's like I think that's the hardest thing about like school reading.
[24:09]Yeah.
[24:10]I don't love it.
[24:11]If they don't let you choose what you want to read, then that can happen to a lot of kids.
[24:15]Yeah.
[24:16]Pretty bad.
[24:17]So this two of this graphic novel number three wings of fire.
[24:21]This window's this come out.
[24:22]That comes out in October.
[24:23]This comes out in October.
[24:24]How lucky are you?
[24:25]I know.
[24:26]I have a coolest mom in the entire world.
[24:27]Yeah.
[24:28]Oh my gosh.
[24:29]So I think you should work a little more in the next graphic novel.
[24:33]And I'll help with it.
[24:34]Okay.
[24:35]Oh my pages and table contents.
[24:38]Okay.
[24:39]Yeah.
[24:41]Actually, that's the next thing I have to do.
[24:43]I just finished that dragon's layer book I mentioned.
[24:45]And I just turned it in.
[24:46]So I know that she's been kind of holding on to the script for the fourth graphic novel,
[24:50]like waiting for me to be done with that one so she can unleash it on me.
[24:53]Yeah.
[24:54]So I'm here.
[24:55]Anything.
[24:56]I'm right here.
[24:57]God.
[24:58]Thank you.
[24:59]So that's coming next.
[25:01]What else aside from that?
[25:02]Are you do have any thoughts about turning all of this into TV?
[25:04]Oh, yeah.
[25:05]Yeah.
[25:06]Yeah.
[25:07]Right.
[25:08]Yeah.
[25:09]I love the colors you turn glory into.
[25:10]It's amazing.
[25:11]Oh.
[25:12]Well, yeah.
[25:13]So actually, that's just to talk about book three for a second.
[25:15]Yeah.
[25:16]Yeah.
[25:17]Yeah.
[25:18]Please.
[25:19]It's but my favorite so far.
[25:20]Like, I love what Marta did with all the, because, you know, poor Marta, the colorist.
[25:22]We were like, OK.
[25:23]Here's a book where all the dragons are different colors.
[25:25]Also, they're chameleons basically and can change colors in every page.
[25:29]So could you just like make them a different color in every panel?
[25:33]I think these colors when they're having emotions.
[25:35]So, you know, when Gloria's mad, she has to turn kind of red.
[25:38]Or like, you know, there's different colors for the different things that they're feeling.
[25:41]So it was a huge challenge.
[25:42]And I think she really rose to it.
[25:44]Like, it's beautiful.
[25:45]All the different colors in it.
[25:46]Plus also the main things that they end up with, they have pet sloths.
[25:50]So there's like a pet sloth on every page.
[25:52]And I was really excited.
[25:53]It's amazing.
[25:54]Yeah.
[25:55]What was the question?
[25:56]TV.
[25:57]Oh, yeah.
[25:58]Yeah.
[25:59]So I feel like it would, that would be amazing.
[26:00]I feel like it would be amazing.
[26:01]Oh, stop.
[26:02]So I'm hoping.
[26:05]Yeah.
[26:06]I mean, I would love to see it as a TV show.
[26:07]It's kind of in the hands of my agent.
[26:09]And there's like a film agent that's working with us.
[26:12]And hopefully they'll find the right people for it.
[26:15]I kind of, you know, I don't want to say yes to anything.
[26:17]Like I want to find the people who understand the books and like really get it.
[26:21]And are going to make it look good, you know?
[26:23]Yes.
[26:24]Yes.
[26:25]And also figuring out the right like animation style.
[26:29]Like what, you know, I watch a lot of TV with my kids.
[26:33]And I'm constantly thinking like, well, would this work with this work?
[26:35]Like what should it really look like?
[26:37]So, I don't know.
[26:38]Those Disney kind of cartoons, like those are kind of not like your kind.
[26:42]Anime is not really like that kind of kind of, I mean, it might be good.
[26:46]But like.
[26:47]Yeah.
[26:48]Okay.
[26:49]We'll go back to it.
[26:50]It's a such a hard question.
[26:51]I'm going to try watching a series called The Dragon Prince.
[26:53]Have you seen that one?
[26:54]It's on that.
[26:55]No.
[26:56]No.
[26:57]So just from watching the trailer of it, I was like, I kind of like this style, but I need to
[27:01]watch it a little and see if I really do like it.
[27:04]And then also my favorite.
[27:05]Well, my two favorites are Miyazaki.
[27:07]I feel like the Miyazaki movies are really beautiful.
[27:10]And also into the spider verse was like, yeah, that's amazing.
[27:13]That was great.
[27:14]Right?
[27:15]It was so brilliant.
[27:16]So I was like, can I just have that?
[27:17]Like, why would we do that?
[27:19]Can I do my book?
[27:20]So I'm sure they're not busy.
[27:22]We're almost out of time.
[27:23]And Owen has to get to camp.
[27:25]Wait.
[27:26]We're almost out of time with the podcast.
[27:27]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[27:30]Oh, wow.
[27:31]Yeah.
[27:32]I mean, so I feel like I have so much advice, but I don't know how much of it is useful.
[27:35]For me, pick one piece of useful advice.
[27:38]I guess sort of the, I feel like the most useful advice is to just like find what you
[27:42]love about it and like keep going back to that.
[27:45]I think that, you know, for me, whenever I get stuck on a book, I kind of, I have like a document
[27:49]full of notes.
[27:50]And usually at the top of it, I've written kind of the main things I want to focus on.
[27:54]There's like how I want the character to change.
[27:56]And what I, I feel like theme is such a like wiggly word, like it doesn't convey quite
[28:00]what I'm trying to go for.
[28:01]But like, what are the questions that I'm exploring?
[28:04]So in like the new books in sort of my, in books 11 through 15, but I've only written 11
[28:10]through 13 so far.
[28:11]It's really about like, can you empathize with the bad guys, but also resist the bad guys?
[28:17]You know, so there's a lot of trying to figure out like, is this character too empathetic?
[28:21]Is this character too fierce?
[28:23]Like, is there, can you be too fierce when there's bad guys you're dealing with?
[28:27]Or too empathetic, if you're just that kind of dragon, can you save the world if you're
[28:30]a Hufflepuff instead of a Gryffindor, that kind of thing.
[28:33]Awesome.
[28:34]Well, Tiwi, thank you so much.
[28:35]Thank you for all this time.
[28:36]Thank you for sending us an early and making Owens entire summer.
[28:41]And thanks for talking books.
[28:42]Yep.
[28:43]We are going to order books as soon as we hang up here on the way to camp.
[28:47]Oh, you have it.
[28:48]Oh, he has it.
[28:49]Okay.
[28:50]Nevermind.
[28:51]Thank you again for everything I really appreciate it and hopefully we'll meet you in
[28:54]person soon.
[28:55]Bye.
[28:56]Tinted.
[28:57]Bye Tiwi.
[28:58]Thank you.
[28:59]Thanks again for my new partnership with Book of the Month Club, Book of the Month.com.
[29:04]Use code ZibiZIBBYY to get your first book for just $5 and sign up for this really fantastic
[29:11]subscription box service.
[29:13]Thanks for listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[29:15]You can follow me on Instagram at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[29:19]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[29:23]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[29:27]Thanks for listening.
[29:28]You can always email me at Zibi at Zibi Owens.com.