Candace Bushnell, IS THERE STILL SEX IN THE CITY?
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[1:54]I am just beyond excited to be interviewing Candice Bushnell, who is the internationally best-selling
[1:59]author of nine books, including Sex in the City, Lipstick Jungle, the Carrie Diaries
[2:04]and Four Blonds.
[2:05]Her latest book, called Is There Still Sex in the City, is currently in development
[2:09]as a TV series with Paramount already.
[2:12]Two of her previous books, as you all probably know, were made into popular TV shows
[2:15]on NBC and the CW, and Sex in the City, of course, became the show on HBO and two blockbuster
[2:22]feature films.
[2:23]She's written for many publications, including men with zal, hamptons, and the New York
[2:26]observer for which she wrote the Sex in the City column.
[2:29]She hosted a radio show on Sirius XM Radio.
[2:31]She wrote a web series starring Jenny Garth.
[2:34]She even does some music videos.
[2:35]A Connecticut native, she currently divides her time between New York and side-carver.
[2:40]Welcome, Candice.
[2:41]Thanks for being on Mom's.
[2:42]Don't have time to read books.
[2:43]I am thrilled to be here.
[2:45]It's an amazing setup here.
[2:47]There's an author coming in.
[2:49]It's maybe the most beautiful place I've ever been in of you.
[2:55]Thank you.
[2:56]Candice came into my apartment and has taken 67 videos.
[2:59]I'm worried she's going to put my house in the market, or so I guess.
[3:03]What is this for now?
[3:05]No, but it's wonderful.
[3:07]I love the idea of the salon and all of that.
[3:11]Oh, thanks.
[3:12]That's great.
[3:13]So I'm so psyched to have read, is there still Sex in the City?
[3:17]I was a huge sex in the City fan in every way, shape, and form.
[3:20]I was an extra on Sex in the City.
[3:22]One of the episodes I know, which episode was it?
[3:25]OK.
[3:27]I had just been diagnosed with cancer and was trying to break up with Smith Jared.
[3:30]They were at Lotus nightclub.
[3:32]And you can see the top left corner of my forehead.
[3:35]So if you pause it, I wasn't an extra in the pilot.
[3:42]And again, it's like a top left corner thing.
[3:46]And I'm in for two seconds.
[3:49]But after doing that, I thought being an extra is it's
[3:53]kind of the worst, because you really are stuck there.
[3:58]But then I was an extra in the carry diaries in the 70s dancing,
[4:02]or it was like the 80s dancing.
[4:03]And they dressed me up and they put me in a huge top hat
[4:07]and a red kind of Maestro circus leader jacket.
[4:14]And so then I was dancing.
[4:15]And that actually was fun.
[4:17]But they didn't actually play the music.
[4:19]You had to pretend dance.
[4:21]Oh, my gosh.
[4:21]So that made it even more interesting.
[4:24]That does not sound fun to me.
[4:26]That was fun.
[4:29]So can you tell listeners a little about what
[4:31]is there still sex in the city is about?
[4:33]And what made you write it right now?
[4:35]Well, to me, it's really about a journey that I had in my 50s.
[4:43]And my 50s were not anything like I
[4:49]thought they were going to look.
[4:51]For one thing, I got to forced when I
[4:54]think I was about 53 maybe.
[4:57]So I was in my early 50s.
[4:58]I got divorced.
[5:00]And I suppose I'd kind of been, I just really
[5:05]didn't want to live in New York all the time anymore.
[5:08]So something was happening in my brain.
[5:10]Like my brain was changing.
[5:12]I was somebody who I never wanted to leave Manhattan.
[5:17]And if I left Manhattan, I was going wearing all black
[5:21]and heels, I was getting back to Manhattan as fast as possible.
[5:26]But I just changed quite a bit.
[5:29]And then I spent, I lived basically at my house in Connecticut.
[5:34]So I have a little small country house.
[5:37]And I spent a lot of time alone.
[5:40]And I guess I was doing the thing
[5:44]that you always dream about when you're a kid and you're a writer.
[5:49]I'm just going to live in a little cabin in the woods.
[5:51]And I'm going to write because that's all I need.
[5:55]And I'll have a little bit of food and I'll have dogs or something.
[5:59]And the weird thing is that if you are a writer
[6:03]or a particular kind of creative person,
[6:06]that actually is enough.
[6:08]You can do that.
[6:10]And I moved to an area where people had been doing that.
[6:16]Traditionally, my Arthur Miller lived up the road.
[6:20]And on his property was the writing shack
[6:27]that he built with his own hands, where he wrote the crucible.
[6:32]And he was also in that house with Marilyn Monroe.
[6:37]And I found that super, super inspiring.
[6:40]And Frank McCourt lived across the street.
[6:44]And then Calder was up the road.
[6:47]So of course, they're all dead now.
[6:49]But it was that kind of place where I went for walks.
[6:54]And then I wrote whatever I wanted.
[6:58]And when your publisher says, you write what your editor says,
[7:03]like, write whatever you want, they do not mean that.
[7:07]OK, that is a lie.
[7:10]They do not want you to write whatever you want.
[7:14]They want you to write what you want within the confines
[7:19]of what they want from a book.
[7:21]It's a business.
[7:24]And I just wasn't conforming.
[7:28]I just wouldn't write that commercial novel that they wanted.
[7:34]So that was like, yeee.
[7:37]And then a lot of my girlfriends moved to sidecarber.
[7:44]And they all sort of said, maybe you're going crazy up there.
[7:47]Because I really spent like three years pretty much alone.
[7:52]I wrote horses, but I didn't date.
[7:55]And I really just wrote all the time.
[7:58]I wrote so much.
[8:01]And it was like during that time that I
[8:03]made this crazy music video and wrote a song on Garage Band.
[8:09]And people are like, what the hell is going on with her?
[8:14]And that actually is a phase of what I would call middle-aged
[8:21]madness.
[8:22]It's at the end of menopause.
[8:25]I suppose when you've gone through menopause.
[8:27]I mean, the whole menopause thing, it's like,
[8:29]has all these freaking stages.
[8:31]You don't even know where you are, whatever.
[8:36]And then after you've gone through this thing,
[8:40]your post-menopausal, but it should just be something
[8:42]like period free or something.
[8:44]I don't know.
[8:45]But I tried to look these things up,
[8:49]but it's, and I kept thinking that when you,
[8:53]as your hormones change, your brain is going to change.
[8:57]And so what's happening to women when
[9:00]the hormones change is that you're going from a brain,
[9:03]a reproductive brain to a non-reproductive brain,
[9:08]which could mean a brain that's more about the self in a sense.
[9:16]And it seemed to me that maybe because women spend most
[9:20]of their lives taking care of others.
[9:22]This is nature's way of saying, you know,
[9:25]I'm going to free you from those hormones that bind you
[9:28]so tightly to others and make you feel like, you know,
[9:33]because women, when you're in those reproductive years,
[9:35]you really are second to other people.
[9:38]You put everybody else and their needs first.
[9:44]So this was what kind of launched this idea,
[9:48]and I realized I'm going through something,
[9:50]and I'm doing the thing that I always wanted to do,
[9:55]but never had permission to do.
[9:58]And it didn't exactly work out.
[10:00]the way I wanted, but I ended up moving to Sag Harbor.
[10:05]And all of a sudden, when I felt like I was the only single person
[10:10]around with the exception of a couple of girlfriends,
[10:13]I had never married, all of a sudden I had all these friends
[10:18]who were single again because they were in their 50s
[10:21]and they were getting divorced or had gotten divorced.
[10:26]So it seemed like again there's a coming together of single women.
[10:32]Like there's certain times when you really need your single women friends
[10:36]and those are the times like before you're married and you have kids.
[10:40]And after you've done the reproductive life system,
[10:45]which is meat, get married, partner up, whatever, have kids,
[10:50]raise them to a certain point, get divorced.
[10:53]It's like you've done a full cycle, okay?
[10:57]And what I realized was, you know, there's still people
[11:04]that they still want to do the cycle again.
[11:07]They still, even though they had it all and it didn't work out,
[11:13]yet people still want to go back and do that again.
[11:17]And that I found fascinating.
[11:21]So I really started taking a look around at,
[11:27]and there were all these single women coming through Sag Harbor
[11:32]because there were a couple of women there who had houses
[11:35]and then they have friends and then the friends of the friends come.
[11:40]And I realized everybody was going through something that was very similar,
[11:44]which I call middle-aged madness.
[11:47]And it's a confluence of events.
[11:51]And there's a lot of loss and there are a lot of socks to the jaw.
[11:58]Like, whoa, I didn't see that one coming, boom.
[12:01]And then you get up again and you're like, I think I'm going to be okay.
[12:04]And then boom, but there's menopause, there's divorce,
[12:12]there's children leaving the nest, there's usually like the death of a parent.
[12:20]It's just that statistically that's how it's going to work out.
[12:26]And, you know, it's a time when somebody's maybe going to get sick.
[12:31]And then it's also a time where if you have gotten divorced,
[12:36]it's going to be a time in your life or even if you're not.
[12:41]Money becomes important in a way that it wasn't before.
[12:46]Because now you are thinking about retirement and you can see that future.
[12:54]And so that's something that people have to deal with in a way that they haven't dealt with.
[13:00]And then if your divorce chances are you're going to be moving.
[13:07]So if you look at the overall picture, you have life's biggest stressors,
[13:12]which are divorced, death, and moving on top of about four other major stressors.
[13:21]And then you have women who are in a sense in a transitional period.
[13:30]And so that was really what I wrote about.
[13:33]And I felt like I didn't really get through this middle-aged madness period
[13:40]until I turned 60.
[13:42]And I see so many of my friends going through it too.
[13:46]And it's funny that there also is a lot of pain there.
[13:53]Because you have to, you know, the death of a parent or the end of a marriage or children
[14:02]leaving home and therefore leaving a void in time and energy.
[14:10]It causes you to look at yourself and who you are, what is your value, what is your worth?
[14:22]And you're also confronted if you have to go out there and support yourself again.
[14:29]What is your value and what is your worth in the world?
[14:32]Now you find it's very different than it was when you were 20 or even 30.
[14:41]Now in your 50s, your value in the world is greatly changed.
[14:46]So that's what it's about.
[14:48]Wow. That was a great answer.
[14:50]You can go home now.
[14:52]I'm getting deli.
[14:54]That's awesome.
[14:55]You said something, where did you say you said something about having a middle-life crisis
[14:59]when you're in your 40s is just really dumb.
[15:01]Yes, because I was, you know, it's so funny because I look back on, when I look at all of my books,
[15:10]I see exactly where I was in life.
[15:14]I was writing something.
[15:15]I was actually writing pretty much the same thing as sex in the city when I was in my 20s
[15:22]in New York and I wrote for women's magazines and it was a good gig because you got paid $2,500.
[15:29]It was 2,500 words and you had a month to write a 2,500 word piece and I cannot tell you why,
[15:41]but it took every single day of that month.
[15:45]I don't know.
[15:47]I don't know.
[15:48]And then at one point, I worked at self-magazine and there were four staff writers and it was
[15:54]like a big deal job and we were paid really well.
[15:58]I think we made 30,000 a year, but we had the writing had to be so precise and we were writing
[16:07]about mascara and you would hand your copy in and if you got your copy back with just a couple
[16:14]of changes, you'd be like, oh, few.
[16:17]And then if you had all these sentences or, you know, looks like it didn't quite get the point.
[16:23]Try again. It was horrifying. It was like the walk of shame, you know, but I was writing about
[16:33]women in their 20s in New York and it was really about dating and that was a super interesting
[16:41]time because it was the first time when women in on mass, although it happened in the 1920s,
[16:48]moved out of the home and into the workplace and all of a sudden, there are all these women
[16:55]in the workplace where there were it before and the male system has to figure out how to deal with
[17:02]them. And, you know, we had all kinds of, you know, the office romance, you know, it was also the
[17:10]time of sexual freedom. So we were, you were allowed to have premarital sex for the first time.
[17:17]I mean, the big O was on the cover of Cosmopolitan and it was revolutionary the idea that a woman
[17:25]could have an orgasm. And so I was writing about all of that and then in the 90s, it really
[17:35]was the single woman who wasn't still supposed to be single. And that was me. That was
[17:45]Carrie Bradshaw. Why are we still single? Somebody promised us that if we worked hard and had a
[17:52]career and looked good and that we were smart and in control of our lives because that's what we
[18:00]were supposed to do, right? That we get this great guy. No.
[18:08]And then I, one of my favorite books is Trading Up, which is about, I mean, the woman is a
[18:15]borderline narcissistic personality at least in Manhattan, which was something that was great.
[18:22]And then one fifth was I thought about being middle-aged. This is a long and super boring answer to
[18:29]not all. Honestly, I could just sit here and watch you talk all day. And like, I should be filming
[18:33]this. You were like, you should have your own, like, stand up comedy show. But there are no boring
[18:39]answers you could come up with. But when I wrote one fifth, I was in my 40s and I was married
[18:45]and that book is about a couple like in the lastitude of, you know, when you're in your 40s,
[18:53]you think you are middle-aged and you're going to have a certain kind of middle-aged crisis that
[18:58]has to do with what that's really about is saying no to the man. You know, that's why only men
[19:06]had middle-aged crisis because, you know, it was about railing against, you know, the society
[19:12]restrictions of the office and having to be buttoned up and having to get home every day and have
[19:18]those responsibilities. That's it was about men breaking out of that. And of course, women weren't
[19:24]allowed to have one. But now so many people are you're in the beginning of your reproductive life
[19:32]cycle. I mean, people in their 40s, they're just starting to have kids. Or, you know, their kids are
[19:41]10. But it's, you know, there's so much involved in having kids these days and having a family
[19:50]and so many obligations and so many things to do that it seems like you don't have a lot of time
[19:59]to say. And what?
[20:00]But it was, am I doing the right thing?
[20:02]Am I, it's like, you don't have time to ask
[20:05]if you're doing the right thing.
[20:05]You gotta do, do, do.
[20:07]So that's the long answer.
[20:09]I can relate to that.
[20:10]You are too busy when you can stop and look at it all
[20:14]or you're forced to stop and look at it all.
[20:16]Some people go, ah!
[20:18]So then what happens, like give me the preview
[20:20]and I read it all in your book, but in your 50s then,
[20:23]when it comes to your divorced,
[20:25]tell me then about like dating in your 50s again.
[20:27]Like what happens?
[20:28]How does that look versus when you were younger?
[20:32]Well, I think one of the interesting things
[20:34]is that in some ways, it's very similar
[20:39]to kind of being a virgin again.
[20:43]Because, you know, if you think about it,
[20:47]usually when people get divorced, they haven't,
[20:51]you know, they're not having sex like,
[20:53]oh a week before they get divorced.
[20:55]These are usually people who,
[20:57]there's hasn't been sex there for a while.
[21:02]So they haven't had sex for a while.
[21:04]They probably haven't dated for 20 years.
[21:08]That's a real possibility.
[21:11]And so much has changed in those 20 years.
[21:15]And, you know, all the things that you're expected to do,
[21:19]like, you know, with dating in your 20s,
[21:21]like, oh, you're gonna take your clothes off
[21:23]and friends, strangers did to that, yeah, that's great.
[21:25]When you're in your 20s, when you're in your 50s,
[21:27]you're like, I've got to take my clothes off
[21:29]in front of strangers.
[21:30]Like, how am I gonna do this?
[21:33]What are they gonna look like?
[21:38]Can I kiss someone my age?
[21:40]I love how in the book you have one of your friends
[21:42]is saying, well, can I date him?
[21:44]He's 64 years old, isn't that like too old?
[21:46]And he you're like, well, how are older you?
[21:47]I mean, I know, it's gas.
[21:50]And there's so much sort of self-ageism
[21:56]in the sense that it's exactly what you said.
[21:59]If when I read somebody's 60 or 64,
[22:04]I think some old person, and then I remember I'm 60,
[22:09]and it doesn't feel old.
[22:13]And it didn't feel old to that person either,
[22:15]even though we have so much ageism.
[22:17]But it's, you know, it's also for people,
[22:21]I mean, I think it's disheartening
[22:26]because I'm, I think that dating isn't great
[22:32]for anybody of any age now.
[22:35]I don't see 20 something women.
[22:40]They're not coming up to me and saying,
[22:42]Candice, dating's never been better.
[22:47]They're saying, dating's never been worse
[22:50]and what's a date and have you ever gone on a real date?
[22:53]Your chapter on Tinder was so great.
[22:56]I mean, after experiencing the whole thing,
[22:58]like what's your main takeaway?
[22:59]Because you started the whole chapter thinking
[23:01]that like everybody told you Tinder was terrible.
[23:04]Yes.
[23:05]And, you know, weirdly, the way it ends with,
[23:09]it's really just a way to get Instagram followers is,
[23:13]I'm not kidding.
[23:15]Like I think at the end of the day,
[23:17]that's what it is.
[23:20]And I should probably go back up on Tinder
[23:23]and really update my photos, et cetera
[23:27]because I feel like I need more Instagram followers.
[23:30]I could not believe in the book
[23:32]and you said you used your real name and on Tinder
[23:34]and people are like, are you the real candidate special?
[23:36]And you're like, yeah, that's me.
[23:37]I'm like, I cannot believe she did that.
[23:39]But you know what?
[23:40]Well, first of all, I didn't know how to fake my name.
[23:43]And, I don't know.
[23:46]I just, for some reason, I couldn't fake my name.
[23:50]I had to use my real name.
[23:52]So I did.
[23:54]And, you know, it was fun.
[23:56]And like people were very nice to me on Tinder.
[23:59]I mean, they were sweet.
[24:01]But everybody else had so many other bad experiences.
[24:05]I mean, I wasn't going on there
[24:07]as an anonymous kind of person.
[24:10]But I do, you know, really look,
[24:13]the bottom line with Tinder and, you know,
[24:16]I think maybe dating apps like match,
[24:18]they really do want you to find a match
[24:20]because so many people say they met somebody on match.
[24:23]But something like Tinder,
[24:25]it's a money-making algorithm designed by men
[24:29]to play into, you know, the most base instincts
[24:34]of the, you know, male or monily driven person.
[24:41]And that's really what it's about.
[24:44]It's about making money and keeping people on there.
[24:48]And it seems to hurt people's souls who are on it.
[24:54]I mean, that to me was what struck me
[24:59]was how, I mean, they seemed sad,
[25:03]which makes sense because there's so much disappointment.
[25:08]It's like, I guess it's a casting call,
[25:11]really at the end of the day when I think back,
[25:15]cause I used to go to go on casting calls
[25:18]when I first moved to New York.
[25:20]And they were so awful and I felt so bad.
[25:25]I said to myself, I'm giving you permission
[25:28]to never have to do that again in your life.
[25:34]You know, to never have to stand in line
[25:37]in a casting call and be judged, it's harsh, you know?
[25:42]And you're there with all the other girls
[25:43]and everybody's like, you know, you know,
[25:46]they'll reject you if you don't have the right eyelashes.
[25:49]And we're like, I know.
[25:54]So it's that kind of, you know,
[25:57]and then there are people on it
[25:58]for all different kinds of reasons.
[26:00]So on balance, do you think social media
[26:02]and the introduction of it
[26:03]since like the sex in the city days
[26:05]versus where we are today?
[26:07]Like, how have you found it to help to hurt?
[26:10]I mean, you're obviously an Instagram.
[26:12]Yes, I mean, there's a, you know,
[26:14]and this was by the way a question I wanted to ask,
[26:16]but also from Jennifer and Glade Dahlberg,
[26:19]who's an author who wanted me to ask it.
[26:20]So just shout out to her.
[26:22]Yeah, hello, shout out.
[26:24]I mean, one of the things that I always wanted to do
[26:26]when I was a kid was like,
[26:29]my sister's and I did like little radio plays
[26:31]and I used to do, I used to make little movies
[26:35]when I was a teenager.
[26:38]And I studied a little bit of filmmaking
[26:40]and I used to do it with the, you know,
[26:42]it was, it had the prongs and the spongs
[26:45]and you had to like cut it with a machine.
[26:49]And I was like really into making these little movies,
[26:53]but then I just, I never really did it again.
[26:57]And so when Instagram started,
[27:00]I loved the visual aspect of it.
[27:03]Like when it first started, it seemed like it was super fun
[27:06]and great because they had the weird filters
[27:09]and you could do these different things.
[27:10]And I started looking at the world much more visually
[27:15]and I really liked it.
[27:17]But now it seems like it's, and then,
[27:20]so I really like making the little movies
[27:22]and using it creatively, you know?
[27:24]And then of course I want like a zillion more followers.
[27:29]All right, it's a zillion more.
[27:30]You have a goal?
[27:31]You know, I don't, I don't know.
[27:33]I mean, maybe I'd try to get 50,000.
[27:35]I think you could do that.
[27:37]I know they won't verify me.
[27:39]I'm not even verified.
[27:42]That's how messed up this whole thing.
[27:43]That is messed up.
[27:44]That's crazy.
[27:45]Did you apply?
[27:46]I did.
[27:47]And they said no, that's insane.
[27:49]No, they didn't say no, they just haven't done it yet.
[27:52]Okay, well, you have to apply yet if it doesn't happen yet.
[27:55]You have to.
[27:56]Yes, I am.
[27:57]I mean, that's crazy.
[27:58]I love you so much for me.
[27:59]That's a gram.
[28:00]Are you listening?
[28:02]So your book, and I know we're almost out of time here,
[28:05]your book ended on an emotional.
[28:07]It was a really emotional ending to your book.
[28:09]And there's an unexpected level of emotion
[28:12]that my heart was like, anyway, well, that's good.
[28:15]Because I mean, the weird, the thing about this book
[28:17]and we're calling it auto fiction is like,
[28:23]the real things happen while I was writing this book.
[28:25]My father died while I was writing this book.
[28:27]And then my friend died.
[28:29]And I was almost at the end of the book.
[28:32]I mean, that part about like her and her MMB,
[28:38]they were going to get married.
[28:40]And then, well, don't give it away.
[28:43]Right.
[28:44]So that was, do you feel like there's some sort of closure?
[28:48]Like, do you feel like writing the book helps
[28:50]like sort of cap off your 50s or like now you're,
[28:52]you know what, I really do.
[28:54]And I feel like I needed to do that.
[28:58]I mean, there's so many questions of like moving forward
[29:02]and how do you want to move forward?
[29:05]And where do you want to move forward?
[29:07]And like, what do I want to do with,
[29:10]I mean, this is all about work stuff, by the way.
[29:14]Like, I never even, you know, moving forward to me
[29:18]is just about like work, you know?
[29:21]Do I want to try to write a Broadway musical?
[29:23]Yes, I do, you know.
[29:25]That's cool.
[29:26]Do I want to do a bunch of other stuff?
[29:29]Yes, so that's amazing.
[29:32]That's great.
[29:33]Okay, and last question.
[29:34]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors out there?
[29:37]Read a lot.
[29:39]I mean, look, the reality is that if you're going
[29:43]to be a writer, you'll be a writer.
[29:46]The trick to being a writer is figuring out
[29:49]how to be a writer.
[29:52]And that is an individual path, everybody.
[29:57]And also, the question is, what kind of...
[30:00]writer. Like I always wanted to be a writer like, I've got Fitzgerald, you know, that, but it
[30:07]doesn't make sense to want to be that kind of writer anymore because nobody writes those books
[30:12]anymore and people don't really read those books about society. And, but that's still what I
[30:19]write about, you know, but it's like knowing what kind of writer you want to be. At the beginning,
[30:27]no, you know, like writing, it's like playing an instrument when, like, let's say you want to
[30:33]play the violin. The first thing you do is you play lots of other pieces. And I think as a writer,
[30:39]you try on different styles. That's what I did, you know, it's like, you know, you try to write
[30:45]like Hemingway. And then you try to write like, I don't know, Edith Morton. And, you know, it's part
[30:52]of that is it's an exploration of finding your voice. And your point of view, it's more than
[31:02]words on the page. You kind of have to see the world in a certain way that nobody else sees
[31:10]it. And that's something that only the writer as the individual can figure out on their own,
[31:16]you know what I'm saying. Yes. And, but I do feel that, you know, people who are meant to be
[31:23]writers, you find the way in. Maybe you do a blog. Maybe you do this, do that. But, you know, in the
[31:31]end, it's about getting people to read your stuff. That's the bottom line. So, you know, I mean,
[31:39]listen, I see people writing things on Instagram that are fantastic. So, I mean, you know,
[31:50]it's just, it's just doing it, doing it and putting it out there and keep knocking on the doors.
[31:56]I love that. Thank you so much. Thank you. This entertainment and this extra information about
[32:02]the book and yourself. And thanks for coming on the show. This is so much fun. Thanks again to
[32:09]my sponsor, Libro FM audio books. Thanks for listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[32:14]You can follow me on Instagram at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books and at Zippy Owens
[32:20]and my new podcast at Kids Do Have Time to Read. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[32:25]for the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this
[32:29]fantastic intro and out trim music. Thanks for listening. You can always email me at ZippyAtZippyOins.com.