Liz Astrof, DON'T WAIT UP: CONFESSIONS OF A STAY-AT-WORK MOM
[0:09]I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the web-e-nominated podcast,
[0:13]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[1:17]I'm so excited to be here today with Liz Astroph, who's the author of the hilarious book,
[1:22]Don't Wait Up Confessions of a State at WorkMom. An award-winning executive producer and successful
[1:28]sitcom writer, Liz's work on shows like Two Bro Girls, The King of Queens, Raising Hope,
[1:32]and many others. She calls herself a writer, producer, and mother-ish. She currently lives in
[1:36]California with her husband and two children, so welcome, Liz. Hi. Is this on? It's on. It's on. It's on. Hi.
[1:44]Thank you. Thanks for coming on most of the time to read books. So start please by telling
[1:49]listeners what Don't Wait Up is about and what made you write it. What Don't Wait Up is about.
[1:54]It's a collection of humor essays. It's about the fact that I am terrified of being a mother
[2:00]because I inherited the maternal instincts of a hot dog from my own mother, from my biological mother.
[2:06]And I am always shocked when I show up for them and when I am not her, still to this day.
[2:13]I'm not. And so I kind of stay at work a lot and try not to come home, but I do eventually.
[2:19]So that's what. So but I had all these stories I wanted to tell from my childhood and I wrote
[2:23]all these essays and I took a class at UCLA after I was on Whitney and I was like I want to
[2:29]write something that's my own and not TV and that I have control over. And I took this class and
[2:34]I started writing and all the essays started having the same theme no matter what they were about.
[2:38]They were all about being a mother and not really having a mother. And so that was the arc that
[2:45]I kind of found. And how long did it take for you to do all of them? Like how long was that hope
[2:49]process? It took years because it took years to get the proposal together. The proposal was what
[2:55]took so long. So I spent two years trying to write a proposal and then my agent read the proposal
[3:01]that took two years to write and then said thanks for taking your first crack at a proposal.
[3:06]So then I was in a ball on the floor of a bowling alley and saying I can't, I'm just
[3:11]like I can't do it, I can't do it. And then I met someone who could like who knew how to do like
[3:16]an overview and help me and we never met in person but over the cloud we worked and she helped me
[3:23]and then from the time I wrote the proposal until the time I sold the book was only six months
[3:28]and then I wrote the rest of the book in like three months. Crazy. It was like a crazy and it was
[3:36]it was fast. It was really fast. So but getting to it has been like a 10-year process or nine-year
[3:42]process. Wow. It seems like the story is just must have flown out of you. I mean because the way
[3:46]you write is like the way you talk, right? You're a bit conscious. Yeah, just just come stream
[3:51]on your pants. So do you just like sit down and they all come out or do you do any sort of
[3:56]outlining or any high struggle with the ones that the ones that do just come out? I think the
[4:03]reason why this kind of writing is easier for me is because in personal essays you can just
[4:07]go off on tangents. So that's why it's easier for me and there have been some that have just
[4:12]come out and then I immediately second guess them and throw them out. But there's a story in there
[4:20]about my daughter at a trampoline place and trying to jump like jump high onto something and like
[4:27]I was there with her and I wanted to tell her that we're not the kind of people who jump high
[4:32]because we are potatoes and I've never been able to jump high so you're not going to be able to
[4:38]and then I became determined to help her do what I couldn't do. And that night I just sat in my
[4:43]son's chair and just wrote the whole thing and I was like, well this is garbage and it wound up
[4:48]being the analog. So yeah, those are the easiest ones. The ones I struggled the least with
[4:54]wind up being the better ones. The ones I spend weeks like also I try and I try and structure them
[4:59]like a TV, like a script like each one is like an episode sort of. So I try. It's awesome. There's
[5:06]nothing forced out of me except maybe like coffee. Black coffee. So in the beginning of the book you
[5:13]discuss how there's this whole stigma to being a state at work mom as you call it. And that you
[5:18]felt sort of discriminated against sort of by the state of my mom. Yes. And you have this one scene
[5:23]where you're at a sporting event I think a soccer game with your kids and somebody comes over
[5:28]and actually had asked you if your husband was working on the show or you were wearing like a
[5:32]two broke girl girl girl's jacket with the thing on it and the woman turned to me and she's holding
[5:37]nine or 10 kids. And she's like, oh my god. Does your husband work on that show? We love that show.
[5:44]And then I just said, no, that would be great because then we'd work together. What is wrong with
[5:49]you? What? You know, and then I said I work there and then I felt though my disdain for people
[5:56]like that is really my own guilt because then I followed her to the bathroom to explain why I
[6:01]have to work. And I made it like I wish I could be home. I really I can't. I just can't. How lucky
[6:07]you are. But meanwhile, she didn't look that lucky and she didn't look that happy. So I mean,
[6:11]the mother is always greener, but I always feel guilty that I like working. And you said you
[6:16]were making fun of her by saying like you don't what she must the smugness. You said you don't
[6:22]even recognize yourself under those maternity sweatments. You fantasize about getting in your minivan,
[6:26]running away from it all, getting involved in a bridges of medicine County type romance,
[6:30]and never coming home again. There is no way any adult enjoys spending time with the toddler,
[6:35]even if it's brilliant hilarious. And frankly, if you really do enjoy them that much, there is
[6:38]something wrong with you. I don't think that's true. When people say like I remember Angelina
[6:43]Jolie said Zahara was like the funniest person she ever met and she was two. I was like,
[6:47]I don't know. I doubt that. Like how is she the funniest person you've ever met?
[6:51]I think that's strange. But then as you said about the guilt, you said you feel guilt at the
[6:56]unrivaled joy I get leaving my house in the morning unrivaled. Talk to me about the joy you feel
[7:03]it leaving and then the guilt that comes with it. If I could fly away, well, right now,
[7:09]so right now I'm working from home kind of. I'm like between stuff and my kids get off of school,
[7:14]so I like hang out at home a lot. I drop them off. I can't. And then around like three,
[7:19]when I know they're getting off, like a mother senses these things like where their kids are
[7:23]going to be, I leave my house as if it's on fire. I grab all my things. It's like 312 every afternoon
[7:30]you would think my house was on fire. And it's like born identity style like driving off and like
[7:35]just getting out of there. I just can't. But anyway, but the morning stuff when they were little
[7:40]little and my nanny would come and I would leave, I just felt like they were in great hands,
[7:44]better hands than with me, cans that were going to play with them and not hide in the bathroom.
[7:50]And I felt like they weren't good hands. And then I was, I was going to be with grown ups.
[7:55]And I would be laughing at work. And then I would come home right before they went to bed,
[8:00]usually with presents, which is the worst thing you could do. And if they, my guilt,
[8:04]so I'd come home with presents. And then if they didn't like them, I would go to my car and get
[8:08]other presents. And then if they didn't like them, I'd get other presents. I'd always have
[8:12]presents in my car. And then I would rattle them up again and my husband would get so upset
[8:16]because then they would be up. They don't sleep. They're, they're not sleep trained. They're like
[8:20]dogs that aren't potty. They're not, they're I'm a potty trained. They're not sleep trained at all.
[8:25]My son, that was the thing about the book I was going to tell you, but my son is my son sleeps in my
[8:29]bed a lot and he's 12 and he's giant. So like I, he just like the bed goes down and he puts his glasses
[8:35]on the nightstand, gets into bed. So we're like a couple. I love that. Yeah. I feel like your guilt
[8:41]leads you to do so many funny things in this book. I'm trying to make up for it. Like when the chapter
[8:46]about the turtles, which was so funny, I literally read it out loud to my 12-year-old son,
[8:52]as like on his bed while like like he's like going to bed and we work like crying laughing
[8:57]and the two of us. And then of course my daughter's like, wait, why didn't you read the
[9:00]old chapter to me? But anyway, it was just the funniest. But in that your nanny takes the kids to
[9:05]Chinatown, which you like really didn't want to do. There's parking and I don't know where
[9:09]things are. I'm annoyed immediately. And then I feel bad. And so you let the nanny like bring
[9:16]him these two turtles, which then you realize we're going to live like 40 to 70 years.
[9:20]That was a giant FU. I felt like on her part. I felt like she knew. I mean, they were tiny
[9:26]and my husband was supposed to say no and he missed the text and I must have missed a text somewhere
[9:31]because I always say yes to everything so that I'm the good guy and then he has to step in and
[9:36]be the bad guy and he did it. So we wound up with these turtles that were going to be like 90 pounds
[9:43]or something and they'll live outlive all of us. So like we'd be taking these, we'd have to
[9:48]like find a house that suited the turtles and like work, we put the turtles and the turtles like
[9:53]hate each other and they get like it was just, it was horrible, horrible. And then at the end after
[9:58]like you describe and-
[10:00]Great, hilarious detail, like buying the tank
[10:03]and then the credenza that the tank has to sit on
[10:05]and like this whole thing.
[10:06]It was so funny.
[10:06]And then you're like, in the whole chapter
[10:08]you've wanted to get to this yoga class.
[10:10]And then you're like, oh, I think now I could get to yoga.
[10:12]That would be so selfish.
[10:13]And you're like, obviously I went.
[10:14]I went, it's better for everyone.
[10:17]This is always me.
[10:18]Shannakur yoga.
[10:20]Do you want to do?
[10:21]Shannakur yoga?
[10:22]Whatever you want.
[10:23]So I won't go to yoga.
[10:24]Okay, I have to go to yoga.
[10:26]I have to.
[10:27]I'm going to be a monster if I don't go.
[10:28]It's in our marriage license.
[10:30]And I like to go, I think it's in there.
[10:32]That it's in a book.
[10:33]So, so a lot of this stuff that comes up about your own parenting
[10:37]comes from your relationship with your own mom,
[10:40]which is also describing great detail.
[10:42]And that part was actually sad.
[10:44]I mean, you make it funny, but it wasn't,
[10:45]this book is not only just comedy.
[10:48]Come, you show us where it came from,
[10:50]which I also thought was like really awesome.
[10:53]And you have such a difficult relationship with your mom
[10:56]that during that funny scene at Tim Allen's ranch
[10:59]or wherever you were.
[11:01]He doesn't believe you getting to fight with him
[11:02]because he won't believe you that your mother was so terrible
[11:04]because you're such a high-functioning adult.
[11:06]So then you go off on this whole tangent
[11:08]about how you're actually not high-functioning at all.
[11:10]I couldn't make the connection either
[11:12]between high-functioning and it means that,
[11:14]so he insisted that I had a good experience with my mother.
[11:18]And this has happened with other people where they say,
[11:19]well, you must have had one good experience.
[11:21]And there is not one.
[11:23]So then they insist that I have.
[11:25]And then my blood starts boiling.
[11:26]I have a physical reaction to it.
[11:28]It's like my nose starts running
[11:29]and fire shoots out of my eyes.
[11:31]And then he said you can't be such a high-functioning person
[11:36]if you didn't have a good relationship with your mother,
[11:38]which makes me immediately go to,
[11:40]a, I'm not a high-functioning person,
[11:42]but also, shit, I have to have a high-functioning relationship
[11:45]with my daughter so that she's high-functioning.
[11:47]Otherwise she'll live with us forever.
[11:49]So then it's like so much pressure on that.
[11:52]But yes, but my own mother and I are estranged
[11:55]and we did not have, we didn't have a good relationship.
[11:58]Was it hard to write about that?
[12:00]I mean, there's a lot of really painful stuff in there.
[12:02]It was interesting because when I wrote that stuff
[12:05]and I'm cursed with a very good memory,
[12:07]a very past things and not any short-term.
[12:10]All of my memories used on horrible things
[12:12]that I feel people have done to me.
[12:14]But it was, it was cathartic, but then I felt like I came home
[12:18]in like a bad mood or I would definitely shape my mood.
[12:23]And when I was doing the audio book,
[12:24]when I was reading those chapters about her,
[12:26]I started having like physical reactions like again,
[12:29]like my nose would start running like I was possessed
[12:32]or something, like just, it was, I couldn't breathe.
[12:35]So, you know, I blocked her from Facebook finally
[12:39]because I feel like she kept liking the book on it
[12:41]and I was like, she's not gonna like the book.
[12:43]I don't want her to read the book.
[12:44]So anyway, my gosh, your parents also,
[12:49]and I won't go into the ways and what's your mom,
[12:53]or the difficulties in your relationship
[12:55]because you outline them so well
[12:56]and it's like your story to tell,
[12:57]but you have both of your parents.
[13:00]I feel like we're really after you about your weight
[13:03]and you poke so much fun at that
[13:05]and talk about your experience at Fat Camp,
[13:07]Camp Shamingen and all the rest of it
[13:10]and trying to fit into this stress
[13:11]that it vomits for shove, which was so,
[13:14]I mean, it was funny, but for hiding your food outside
[13:17]in a paper bag and like having this crazy relationship
[13:20]with your grown-up neighbor where you're having like
[13:22]this reciprocal candy sharing arrangement,
[13:24]which was hilarious.
[13:26]But I was just wondering, so all this attention
[13:29]growing up on how you looked
[13:31]and you make jokes like, oh, and then, you know,
[13:33]my failed delumia and the center of blah, blah, blah.
[13:36]How did you like deal with all of that as a grown-up?
[13:38]And how are you trying to deal with your kids now
[13:41]to like make sure that it's so hard?
[13:43]It's so hard.
[13:43]First of all, I have my own like dysmorphia for sure
[13:48]and my own ICU dietician now
[13:50]and so much such a like kind of poor relationship with food,
[13:55]but I think I have it under control,
[13:56]but it is definitely like I definitely define myself
[13:59]by how, you know, my weight and stuff like that.
[14:02]But the one thing I will say that I give myself credit for
[14:05]is my daughter, my daughter is kind of an experiment
[14:08]in having a relationship with a daughter
[14:10]that I didn't have with a mother.
[14:12]So she has zero awareness of her weight,
[14:15]zero body shame for any reason.
[14:18]She has so much confidence.
[14:19]My friend Dale, her dad used to tell her every morning
[14:23]that she was beautiful and she's not like someone
[14:25]that you would like be like, oh, she's beautiful,
[14:27]but she had so much confidence.
[14:29]Like her eyes didn't even close all the way when she slept.
[14:31]She had such big eyeballs that it would always look like
[14:34]she was like a little awake, like the whites of her eyes
[14:36]and sleep weight camp, but she had so much confidence
[14:41]because every day when she left the house,
[14:42]her father would say you're beautiful.
[14:44]He didn't say inside and out
[14:45]and I think that's why she was a bitch,
[14:47]but so I say to Phoebe, you're so beautiful inside and out.
[14:50]And she really has so much confidence.
[14:53]The problem is with my son and her a little bit is that,
[14:57]so I make immediately made everything available to them,
[15:01]like candy, everything because I don't want it to be an issue.
[15:03]I don't want them to have to like sneak
[15:05]or anything like I had to do.
[15:07]But it backfired a little bit in the way that my son
[15:10]is gelatinous at times,
[15:12]and he wakes up in the middle of the night
[15:13]and eats ice cream and stuff.
[15:14]And I find myself having to do what my parents did,
[15:18]like get rid of stuff.
[15:19]We had to put like a lock on our fridge
[15:21]because it was bad, like we got rid of all the stuff.
[15:23]I find myself repeating those patterns
[15:25]and trying desperately not to go to those places
[15:29]that my parents went, I get it now a little bit
[15:31]because I'm like, why do you treat yourself
[15:32]like a garbage pal?
[15:34]But it's definitely that is challenging.
[15:37]It's challenging with kids because I,
[15:39]but then I also know that for me,
[15:41]it got to a point where I was like,
[15:42]I had to want to do it myself or not do it.
[15:45]So yeah, I feel like so much of parenting
[15:48]is in reaction to the way you liked or didn't like
[15:50]the way that you were best.
[15:52]And then I find myself doing the same,
[15:54]the same things and I pull myself back.
[15:57]I had a moment like that where,
[15:59]so my mother used to like hide all the chocolate chip cookies
[16:01]for me, which is probably smart given how much.
[16:03]I love chocolate chip cookies.
[16:04]Now many of them might eat now,
[16:05]but she would like hide them on this high shelf
[16:07]and then bring them down like on a platter
[16:09]from my brother when he got him from school.
[16:10]Oh my God.
[16:11]You could eat like a box today
[16:12]and I was like not supposed to eat that.
[16:14]I was measuring out like a quarter cup of orange juice
[16:16]with my like, oh my God, whatever.
[16:19]Anyway, so I made the decision like,
[16:20]you know what, I'm gonna let my kids eat
[16:22]whatever they want.
[16:23]Like I'm not putting things on high shelves.
[16:25]Like really, you want ice cream after camp
[16:27]and you want ice cream so you're gonna try
[16:28]but it's go go for it.
[16:29]I'm amazing.
[16:30]Yes.
[16:31]But like you, I'm like, well,
[16:33]I don't know they have had like 57 trees today
[16:35]and I found myself the other day
[16:36]with this bag of chocolate chip cookies.
[16:38]And I could like see myself like in a movie
[16:40]like putting them up on this high shelf
[16:42]and being like, oh my gosh, I'm doing that.
[16:43]I'm doing what she does.
[16:44]And then I was like, but do I want to hear like,
[16:47]yes.
[16:47]Am I hiding them from me?
[16:49]Am I hiding them from the kids?
[16:50]And then I was like, oh my gosh,
[16:51]I don't even know.
[16:52]And I like raised out of the kitchen.
[16:53]I'm also worried.
[16:54]I do that.
[16:54]I'm worried about shaming them.
[16:56]My son had eaten like a bunch of like ice cream cakes
[16:59]out of the garage fridge.
[17:00]So I had to throw them out.
[17:02]And then I threw them out
[17:03]but I threw them out without putting them in a bag.
[17:07]And they were just gonna melt.
[17:08]Right.
[17:09]And my husband was like, did you just throw them in there?
[17:11]And it's like the summer.
[17:11]And I go, well, Jesse, you'll wake up and eat them in the moment.
[17:14]I go, when you go to eat in the middle of the night,
[17:16]just go to the garbage outside.
[17:17]But I'm like, set me up.
[17:19]So I have to like, the other day I was in bed with him.
[17:22]And he doesn't like to exercise.
[17:23]He's like a very old man.
[17:25]And he worries about chafing.
[17:27]And he's 12.
[17:27]He just turned 12.
[17:28]And I said, did you buy any snacks at camp today?
[17:31]And he said, well, I was hot.
[17:32]So I had a drumstick, you know, the ice cream.
[17:35]And he goes, and then I had some Cheeto puffs and silence.
[17:39]And then thought he was done.
[17:40]I had an Oreo bag.
[17:43]And then I had a hot dog.
[17:47]And then I just was like, did that cool you off?
[17:50]Because I'm always like, if you tell us the truth, we can't be met.
[17:52]But what is interesting to me is that we don't ask that we
[17:54]don't, they have no reason to hide anything.
[17:57]And yet my housekeeper found a drawer of empties
[18:02]in our bathroom like a while ago.
[18:04]And I just said, I had to hide food.
[18:06]You don't.
[18:07]So just eat it in front of me.
[18:08]And then when he does, I'm just white, not going everything.
[18:11]But there was one thing that happened that
[18:13]has to do with reading.
[18:14]I'll just tell you quick.
[18:15]Yeah, no, it's coming.
[18:16]One night, I was like three o'clock in the morning.
[18:18]And I noticed that the bed went up.
[18:19]I felt around.
[18:20]What do you mean the bed went on?
[18:21]Do you like my son's bed?
[18:23]My son's side of the bed was up.
[18:25]My son gets into bed with me every night.
[18:28]Usually we're working on that.
[18:29]Sleep training him at 12.
[18:31]So I noticed that he's not in bed.
[18:32]So I go downstairs to the kitchen, and he slams the garbage
[18:36]and he has chocolate on his face.
[18:38]And I'm like, what are you doing?
[18:40]And he goes, nothing.
[18:41]I just had a little bit of pudding.
[18:44]And then I go, just go back to bed.
[18:46]You need to get sleep, go back to bed, go upstairs.
[18:48]So I follow him upstairs.
[18:50]And I go, this is how we're like a married couple.
[18:52]I go, I just don't know why I send you a do a trainer.
[18:55]If you're going to eat like that, if you're
[18:56]going to treat yourself like a garbage pill.
[18:58]And he goes, I just got hungry.
[19:02]And it was just one pudding.
[19:05]And I go, no talking, just go to bed, go to bed.
[19:07]And then we get into bed.
[19:09]And it's dark.
[19:10]And I flip the light on.
[19:11]And I take a book out.
[19:12]And I go, why can't sleep?
[19:13]I have to read now.
[19:14]And I'm lying on my side.
[19:15]I go, but no talking, no talking.
[19:16]And he goes, what you're reading?
[19:18]And I go, none of your business, go to bed, no talking.
[19:22]And he goes, is that a chapter book?
[19:25]I go, yes, it's a chapter book.
[19:27]No talking, go to bed.
[19:29]And then he goes, I don't see you read a lot.
[19:32]And I go, I don't read a lot.
[19:34]Because I have been reading the same book for six years.
[19:39]I go, I have not had the chance to read a book
[19:41]because I'm chasing you downstairs.
[19:43]Like finding, I have not a minute because of you.
[19:46]And he goes, well, what is it about?
[19:47]I go, I don't know what it's about.
[19:49]I have no idea what it's about.
[19:51]Go to bed, no more talking.
[19:52]And then I flip the light.
[19:54]I, he's quiet.
[19:55]I go, no more talking.
[19:56]Go to sleep, you need to get sleep.
[19:58]And then I said, and.
[20:00]Do you know what?
[20:01]It would be nice if I could read a book once in a while.
[20:04]And then he goes, I'm sorry, no more talking.
[20:06]So then I shut the light off and I go,
[20:09]have you even practiced the drums?
[20:11]And he goes, no.
[20:12]And I go, why are we sending you the drum lessons
[20:15]if you don't play the drums?
[20:16]If you don't practice.
[20:18]And he starts to talk and I go, no talking, go to bed.
[20:22]And so then he's quiet.
[20:23]And I said, did you let the dogs out
[20:25]when you were downstairs?
[20:26]And he goes, no.
[20:28]And I go, why couldn't you just let the dog?
[20:30]I go, you know what, don't even talk.
[20:32]And he goes, why didn't have to?
[20:33]Crash made a poop on the floor.
[20:36]And I go, did you pick it up?
[20:38]And he goes, yes.
[20:40]And I go, did you throw it in the toilet or the garbage?
[20:44]Or the outside garbage?
[20:45]And he goes, I threw it in the kitchen garbage.
[20:47]So I flip the light back on, I go downstairs.
[20:51]I take the garbage out.
[20:52]I'm storming around.
[20:53]I got attacked by a moth.
[20:55]I come back up, storm into the bedroom,
[20:57]shut the light off.
[20:58]And then I just go, no talking.
[21:00]And I get into bed.
[21:01]And then I just go, love you, snukes.
[21:03]And he goes, love you, mama.
[21:04]And we went to bed.
[21:05]So it's like this married couple,
[21:06]like you just don't stick to things.
[21:09]I haven't read a book in six years.
[21:11]I see you so clearly why you write for TV
[21:13]because I feel like I now I just watch to show.
[21:16]Like I could see all that happening in my head.
[21:18]Thank you very much now.
[21:19]He is like a, yeah.
[21:21]It is like a, but he's a character and everything I write.
[21:24]I feel like I rob from our lives so much.
[21:27]But-
[21:28]And your husband too.
[21:29]My husband tore Todd in my head.
[21:30]And I thought you did some sort of,
[21:32]he wants him a word for what was that?
[21:34]So I had written, when we first got married,
[21:38]we went for life insurance.
[21:39]Cause I was worried that one of us was gonna drop dead.
[21:41]And our dog wouldn't have insurance.
[21:43]So I was actually pregnant.
[21:45]I think when we got life insurance.
[21:46]And at the time he wasn't working.
[21:49]And the insurance guy said that like,
[21:52]he showed Todd what he would get if I were to die.
[21:54]And then he showed me when I would get,
[21:56]if he were to die and it was just a blank piece of paper,
[21:58]he just wanted me to have a piece of paper.
[22:00]And I freaked out because I was like,
[22:03]I was like, can I take anything out on him?
[22:05]Like even if I want to go shopping.
[22:06]And he's like, where are you going to go shopping?
[22:08]And I'm like, I don't know.
[22:09]You're like blooming dales.
[22:11]And he was like, mmm.
[22:13]Could you go to like a Nordstrom off-rack?
[22:14]Like I was like what, so he was not,
[22:16]where I'm like, so he's not worth anything dead.
[22:18]So I panicked because I was gonna be supporting us
[22:21]even when I'm dead.
[22:22]And I wanted to relax.
[22:24]And then it turned into, I wrote a whole pilot about it
[22:26]about how he's there for me emotionally,
[22:28]which is so much more important
[22:29]in how I consider myself low maintenance
[22:31]because I supported us, but really I'm so high maintenance.
[22:35]And so he wants to direct.
[22:37]So I had sold the pilot to NBC many years ago
[22:40]when it wound up not getting made.
[22:42]So I was like, why don't I produce it?
[22:44]Why don't we produce it and you direct it?
[22:46]And we made it and the actors did it for free.
[22:48]And they all got work out of it.
[22:50]And it won like the New York Comedy Festival
[22:53]and the LA Comedy Festival.
[22:54]So that was exciting.
[22:56]That's awesome.
[22:56]Yeah, so yeah.
[22:58]I love your chapter with the Tiffany Love bracelet.
[23:00]That was so funny too.
[23:01]It doesn't make me look bad.
[23:02]No, it didn't.
[23:03]The whole thing, it was like one thing after another
[23:05]of like hilarious because you say all the stuff
[23:08]that everybody is thinking and feeling.
[23:09]Maybe not everybody, but maybe not everything.
[23:13]But neither of us come off fast.
[23:14]Smelling like a rose in that.
[23:16]But no one in life is perfect.
[23:18]Like that's what's so great.
[23:19]Like I love when you like had this one section
[23:22]where you outlined like all the reasons why you lied
[23:24]and steal it and like do you know what I'm talking about?
[23:26]Yes, wait.
[23:27]I'm trying to remember what I was in the context of.
[23:30]But it was sort of how you're like not a perfect mother
[23:32]at all.
[23:33]Was it the one when I sent that text?
[23:35]Maybe.
[23:36]Or maybe it's a horrible text to my friend,
[23:38]our first night on vacation.
[23:39]Then I had to tell you how it was all things I lied about.
[23:42]Yes.
[23:43]I thought she was going to tell him anyway.
[23:44]Yes.
[23:45]And you're like, God, that was awesome.
[23:47]I mean, everything like that was terrible.
[23:48]Everyone's done that though.
[23:50]Everyone's felt the hot rush of blood draining
[23:53]from their entire body when they've sent a text
[23:56]to the wrong person.
[23:57]It's the worst.
[23:57]It is the worst.
[23:58]It's the worst.
[23:59]So with all the stuff that happens in your life
[24:01]and now it's all become just this hilarious material.
[24:04]And you do have a scene in the book where you realize
[24:06]you're funny when you're like regaling your stock
[24:09]photography office with your stories
[24:11]of this clubbed disaster vacation, right?
[24:13]When you're going through like day to day life,
[24:16]are things in your head, are you finding them funny even
[24:18]when they're really not funny at the time?
[24:20]Or do you have to step back and later you find them funny?
[24:23]I find them funny almost immediately
[24:25]because it's the only way I can process them.
[24:28]Like even my parents' reaction to the book,
[24:30]my step mom and my dad has not been stellar immediately.
[24:34]I'm like, this is an essay.
[24:35]This is my next thing, but wouldn't it be funny
[24:37]if I tried to kill myself in an electric car
[24:41]because my book was coming out, but then I had to live.
[24:43]And then like just the whole like everything is,
[24:46]that's just my defense mechanism
[24:48]is to try and think of how it's funny because it's so not.
[24:51]But yes, love that, but yeah.
[24:53]But I do in the day to day.
[24:55]Yes, everything.
[24:56]And are you gonna work on another book after this?
[24:58]Like, I think there are two.
[24:59]If I get to, if I'm allowed, if it does well enough,
[25:02]desperately, yes.
[25:03]I might make this one more fiction the next one.
[25:06]But yeah, and I'm kind of working on stuff,
[25:07]but either way, I just want to do this again.
[25:10]It was the best writing experience I've ever had
[25:12]better than TV, yes.
[25:14]Really?
[25:15]Because I got to be more, the toll process is much more
[25:17]like you don't have networks, like you don't have all these
[25:22]people, you know, people don't have to be likable.
[25:25]You know, your characters don't have to be likable.
[25:27]You can be unlikable, you know, stuff like that.
[25:29]I probably will make this into a show at some point.
[25:32]So that's actually part of the reason I wrote it
[25:35]because when I would pitch this show, this book as a show,
[25:38]the studio people would say, everyone's so unlikable.
[25:43]We don't know that they're likable.
[25:45]But then in the book, I was able to show
[25:46]that they're likable and now people want to make it.
[25:48]Oh, good.
[25:49]So yeah, they're like, we know you turned out OK.
[25:52]But I don't know if we're going to find an audience that knows,
[25:55]you know, so, but now they know, would you be in it?
[25:58]No.
[25:59]OK, so I'm too old.
[26:01]But I would, you know, maybe it's like a current future.
[26:04]Oh, stop, you're not.
[26:05]But do you have any advice to people starting out
[26:08]who want to do something like you did with writing writing?
[26:11]Here's what my advice is that I learned from this writing
[26:14]coach, and it's been the most helpful for me.
[26:16]And I do it now, is that if you give yourself a sentence,
[26:19]a writing prompt, like my story is about this,
[26:22]and then set a timer for 20 minutes and just meander
[26:25]and just write without any editing,
[26:27]no rethinking, no going back, no judgment,
[26:30]you will find something like a kernel of something
[26:33]that you can use, and you'll be amazed by what you've
[26:35]signed up going up what you come up with.
[26:38]You can just say anything.
[26:39]I still do that, anything.
[26:40]Like I think one of mine was I'm afraid of.
[26:44]And then I get into this whole thing of like,
[26:46]I don't know how I wind up at a whole other like, me it.
[26:50]But I do have to say so I have all these writing prompts
[26:52]that I did recently that all wind up having the same theme
[26:56]to try and figure out what I want the next book to be.
[26:59]So they all wind up coming back to the same thing.
[27:01]And either that's laziness or that there's a, like, a reason.
[27:05]What's the thing?
[27:06]The thing is that I want to write about escaping and freedom.
[27:10]Like I have a lot of friends who are at that stage
[27:12]where their kids are grown up enough
[27:15]that they don't need them as much.
[27:16]And they gave up careers for them.
[27:18]And their kids are like, a whole is kind of.
[27:20]And not like, thankful at all.
[27:22]And now they look down and they're wearing like the same
[27:23]sweatpants.
[27:24]They were wearing when they had them.
[27:25]And they start to take their lives back.
[27:27]And that's what every single one of my things comes to.
[27:31]It's about people taking their lives back.
[27:33]So cool.
[27:34]So like a rebirth.
[27:35]Yeah, I love that.
[27:37]So yeah, awesome.
[27:39]Well, thank you so much for sharing your experiences.
[27:42]And I'm telling you, this is literally my favorite.
[27:45]I mean, it was so funny.
[27:47]And I just feel like it is such a gift when authors are this funny.
[27:51]And relatable, even though your lives are not the same,
[27:54]do you know what I mean?
[27:55]Like just finding that kernel between reader and author.
[27:58]I think it's just the greatest experience.
[28:01]And you just feel so like, not alone in any of the stuff,
[28:03]even like the inner stuff in your head
[28:05]that you're kind of ashamed of.
[28:06]Right.
[28:06]So I say everything I'm ashamed of.
[28:08]I'm not even ready, but everybody shares some of that.
[28:11]Right.
[28:12]Anyway, that makes me feel better too, actually.
[28:14]Yeah.
[28:15]Thank you.
[28:15]Thank you.
[28:16]Thank you.
[28:16]Thank you.
[28:18]Thanks again to my sponsor, Libro FM audio books.
[28:21]Thanks for listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[28:24]You can follow me on Instagram at Moms Don't Have Time
[28:27]to Read Books and at Zibi Owens.
[28:29]And my new podcast at Kids Do Have Time to Read.
[28:32]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[28:35]for the Sound Editing.
[28:36]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[28:38]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[28:41]Thanks for listening.
[28:42]You can always email me at Zibi at Zibi Owens.com.