Nicola Harrison, MONTAUK
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[0:59]I'm so excited to be here today with Nicola Harrison.
[1:02]Nicola is a native of England, who studied literature at UCLA, and received an MFA in creative
[1:07]writing at Stony Brook.
[1:08]She was the fashion and style staff writer at Forbes, wrote a weekly column for Lucky, and
[1:13]has had work published in Los Angeles Magazine, the Southampton Review, and many other
[1:17]publications.
[1:18]She also launched a personal styling business, Harrison's Style.
[1:22]She currently lives in New York, and has spent many summers in Montauk.
[1:25]She's the author also of Montauk.
[1:26]So welcome, Nicola.
[1:28]Thanks for being on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[1:30]Thanks for having me.
[1:32]Everybody be gentle.
[1:33]This is Nicola's first podcast.
[1:34]Yes, it is.
[1:35]We're going to break her in nice and easy.
[1:38]Thank you.
[1:40]So I read her book, Montauk, start to finish.
[1:45]In one big chunk, I sat on the couch and I read for six hours straight.
[1:50]It was so good, and I'm so excited to talk to Nicola about it.
[1:53]So tell listeners what Montauk is about, please.
[1:56]OK.
[1:57]So it's set in 1938, and it's the story of Beatrice, who is a young woman, and she
[2:04]spends the summer in Montauk, at the request of her husband.
[2:07]And for those who don't know, Montauk is a little town at the tip of Long Island past
[2:10]the Hamptons.
[2:12]And so she spends the summer out in Montauk, and she stays at the Montauk Manor with all
[2:16]the wives, and then the husbands go back and forth to the city during the weekend.
[2:20]They come out in the weekends.
[2:22]And instead of getting in with the high society wives and women, she finds herself
[2:28]drawn to these locals and their lives, and she gets involved in their lives, and that
[2:34]leads to some complications to say the least.
[2:39]So you have a lot of facts and images and things through it.
[2:43]So did you have to research?
[2:45]Did this was it a whole historical fiction thing, or did you make everything up?
[2:50]No.
[2:51]I mean, the story itself is a section of it, but yeah, I mean, it started out with me
[2:56]with visits to the Montauk Library and reading about the local history, and then tours
[3:02]of the lighthouse or the local historian.
[3:04]And then I interviewed some locals who lived in Montauk their whole life in the 90s now.
[3:10]So those interviews are amazing.
[3:12]And then I learned a lot about the development of Montauk back in the 1920s by this guy
[3:17]Carl Fisher, this developer.
[3:19]He also developed Miami, which was just swamp ground.
[3:22]So that was all true.
[3:23]Yeah, that's true.
[3:24]Yeah.
[3:25]And so that was, you know, I wove that in throughout.
[3:34]And it's interesting because I've seen Montauk have a lot of changes over the years.
[3:39]And you know, it's gone from like a sleepy fishing village that people didn't really
[3:42]want to drive all the three hours out of New York City to get there.
[3:45]So it's like very quaint.
[3:46]And now it's become a very popular destination.
[3:48]It's still beautiful and everything, but it's changed a lot.
[3:51]And so I, that kind of mirrored what I read about how it happened in the 1920s and 30s.
[3:56]And so I kind of wanted to capture it.
[3:59]So cool.
[4:00]Yeah.
[4:01]I've watched Montauk change.
[4:02]I've been going into the Hamptons.
[4:03]This is going to age me somewhat since 1979.
[4:04]Oh, wow.
[4:05]And so like I've seen the shift in Montauk, the first hand.
[4:09]So I was particularly interested in this.
[4:12]Right.
[4:13]So how did you end up writing this book?
[4:15]Tell me about, so you used to work in magazines.
[4:18]How did you end up creating MFA?
[4:20]Yeah.
[4:21]Tell me where this book came from, how you came up with the idea for this book, how you
[4:25]went from magazines here.
[4:26]Just how did you get here to this beautiful book?
[4:30]So you know, I spent a lot of time out in Montauk and a lot of summers out there.
[4:33]My ex-husband and I used to have a house out in Montauk.
[4:36]And it was funny because when we bought it, it belonged to this guy, his name was Billy.
[4:40]And he was a lobster fisherman.
[4:42]And when the real estate prices started to rise, a lot of locals sold out and moved.
[4:46]And he actually moved to Florida.
[4:48]And so we had this house.
[4:50]And then when we started going to the local fish market and the liquor store and the grocery
[4:55]store, we'd talk to the people and get to know them and they'd be like, oh, yeah, you live
[4:58]at Billy's house.
[5:00]And for years, we lived in Billy's house.
[5:02]And it probably still is Billy's, you know, considered Billy's house.
[5:06]And just that sort of sense of loyalty and community to this guy, Billy, just thought
[5:12]that was so cool.
[5:13]And it kind of, you know, it was like a term of an idea in the back of my mind.
[5:17]And what else did you ask you?
[5:18]Oh, so how did you come up with this story?
[5:21]So you got your new house, but you've kicked Billy out.
[5:24]Billy's out of town and you decided to write a story about it or you came up with the
[5:30]idea then.
[5:31]And then that was sort of like the beginning of it, this idea of the locals and this loyalty.
[5:36]And then, you know, when my son was young on the weekends, you know, how they'd sometimes
[5:40]don't nap and you put them in the car and you just drive around.
[5:42]And I would just drive around Montauk for so long up by the lighthouse and down to the
[5:46]fishing village and down by the beach and up by the Montauk Manor.
[5:50]And I just, I think it just started piecing it piecing something together in my mind.
[5:54]And then did you decide, so were you working full-time or freelancing?
[5:58]And like when did you decide to write a book at all?
[6:00]Yeah.
[6:01]So I started working on this, took me about four years to write.
[6:06]Obviously I was working in magazines and I was a fashion writer for Forbes and lucky and
[6:11]some other places.
[6:12]But that was earlier.
[6:13]I think it was, so after, yeah, obviously after I had my son about four years ago, I started
[6:18]working on this book.
[6:20]Yeah.
[6:21]And then it took you four years to write it.
[6:22]Yeah.
[6:23]Four years.
[6:24]Because there's so much in there.
[6:25]Well, it's so good, but I was like, I mean, it's really like a, like, you woven so much
[6:34]stuff.
[6:35]It's so much action.
[6:36]How did you come up with the idea, like how did you come up with the plot?
[6:39]And did you know along, and I'll ask you specific questions, I'm like rambling, but did
[6:43]you come up with the ending at the beginning?
[6:46]Like did you already know how it was going to end?
[6:47]I did.
[6:48]Yeah.
[6:49]Yeah.
[6:50]I knew how this whole story, I don't know how I came up with the end of the plot.
[6:53]It just sort of came to me.
[6:54]I was just like, this is my story, and it was sort of fully developed in my mind.
[6:58]I mean, obviously there are different twists and turns that took along the way.
[7:01]but the general idea of from beginning to end.
[7:05]So cool.
[7:06]It's my mind.
[7:07]That's amazing.
[7:08]One of the things you wrote so beautifully about in the book was infertility, which I feel
[7:11]like is not often talked about infection in this way, and especially not in the 1930s.
[7:17]Right.
[7:18]It was like such a neat way you handle it.
[7:19]Anyway, you wrote, I was trying to remain hopeful that we would be blessed with a child
[7:23]somewhere in the near future, but the same old fear and questioning about why it hadn't
[7:27]happened yet came rushing back, the thought of being around all the women during the week
[7:30]with their children at the beach and the pool, teaching them to play tennis and build
[7:34]sand castles.
[7:35]It made me feel rather melancholy, most likely I'd be the only one of childbearing age without
[7:38]a child to care for, and everyone would be asking why I wasn't in the family way.
[7:42]My stomach clenched, and I suddenly found it hard to swallow that feeling that you captured
[7:47]that so beautifully.
[7:48]Tell me about the interest in including this dimension to the book.
[7:52]Yeah, so I mean, I was writing about a time when if you weren't married with three kids
[7:57]by the age of 25, you're considered an old maid.
[8:00]And it's just so different from where we are now, especially in New York City.
[8:04]You see women having kids so much older.
[8:06]I mean, I'm 40, and I just had a three month old.
[8:09]So I mean, that would never have gone down then.
[8:12]But I mean, I've seen, we all have friends who struggle with this, who struggle with
[8:17]infertility.
[8:18]And I think it's so hard for them to go to the birthday parties and go to the baby
[8:24]showers and be this good friend when they're struggling with that.
[8:26]It's just, you know, very heartbreaking for them.
[8:28]It's so true.
[8:29]Oh my gosh.
[8:30]And you also rape so beautifully about loss.
[8:33]So I won't give anything away, but Beatrice, the main character had lost someone close
[8:37]to her, which informs many of her life decisions going forward.
[8:41]And I felt like you captured that feeling of suddenly just so out of sync with the rest
[8:46]of the world when you're grieving.
[8:47]Yeah.
[8:48]And you said, this is what Beatrice is thinking, anything they spoke of seemed childish
[8:51]and petty.
[8:52]I seem to have been thrust into the world of adulthood overnight.
[8:55]How could I relate to these people anymore?
[8:57]And I have gone through a period of time where I felt that way.
[9:00]Mm-hmm.
[9:01]Did you have you gone through this?
[9:02]Yeah.
[9:03]I mean, you must have to have written about it like this.
[9:05]Yeah.
[9:06]So I lost my brother in the car accident when it was like the day before my 18th birthday.
[9:09]Oh, yeah.
[9:10]Yeah.
[9:11]He was so young.
[9:12]He was 22.
[9:13]So, you know, it was just devastating for my family.
[9:16]And we, you know, I was in high school and, you know, it was a cheerleader and, you know,
[9:21]my biggest problems were like boys and, you know, what our plans were for Friday night
[9:26]football, we would have to do a football game.
[9:28]And then suddenly it's like, like I said, it was like thrust into this adulthood.
[9:33]And suddenly it felt like my job was like to take care of my parents and to make sure
[9:37]that they were, you know, eating and drinking and, you know, gonna move forward.
[9:42]And, you know, I just thought it's, I wanted to explore this a little because it's a,
[9:46]you feel very isolated and like very, very alone and like all of a sudden my best friends
[9:52]who are like, you know, my besties and suddenly I just couldn't relate to them at all,
[9:56]you know, and they were trying to say all the right things and they just.
[10:00]You know, they couldn't, it's nothing they could say
[10:01]because they had never been through anything like this.
[10:04]So yeah, I channeled that.
[10:06]I'm so sad to hear that.
[10:09]Yeah.
[10:10]And it was just the two, it was just the two.
[10:11]Yeah.
[10:12]Oh, yeah.
[10:13]I'm so sorry.
[10:14]Well, now I feel like all the rest of my questions
[10:15]are so stupid.
[10:17]You're so stupid to that.
[10:19]Well, okay.
[10:21]Had you written about your loss of your brother
[10:23]in other contexts?
[10:24]Yeah.
[10:24]Have you tried to write about it?
[10:25]Did you write, did you think about writing this
[10:27]as a memoir?
[10:27]Yes.
[10:28]Yes, you're onto it.
[10:30]So I got my MFA in creative writing at Stony Brook University.
[10:34]And when I was there, I worked on a memoir.
[10:37]And it was about my brother and losing him at a young age.
[10:40]And the reason I wrote it is, I think, this is the reason
[10:44]I wrote it, is the first of all, it was very cathartic
[10:46]to write about him and like us growing up.
[10:48]And I just wanted to remember all of these times
[10:51]we had together.
[10:52]And I was scared that I was going to forget things.
[10:54]And I found that I was remembering things
[10:57]in terms of pictures, like family photo albums.
[11:01]Like I would remember in my mind what I saw this picture.
[11:03]Oh, yeah, I remember that.
[11:04]And then I was worried that that was all
[11:06]I was going to remember with these pictures that we had.
[11:08]And you're not going to get any more pictures.
[11:10]So I just wanted to write down.
[11:12]I wanted to capture it and write down the good times
[11:15]that we had and things growing up.
[11:18]So I'd written that memoir as in a draw now.
[11:21]I didn't do anything with it.
[11:22]But it was a very cathartic experience to do it.
[11:26]And then what made you want to fictionalize at this time?
[11:28]You know, I had no intention of including that
[11:32]and this really in this book.
[11:34]I feel like it's such a central part of the book.
[11:36]Yeah, I feel like it was missing it before it was in.
[11:41]And then I just sort of dabbled.
[11:43]Like I'll make just do this.
[11:44]And then it started to develop into the thing.
[11:47]Yeah, that's amazing.
[11:48]A friend of mine recently was asking.
[11:51]So I had another author event recently
[11:53]with Sarah McCall and Claire Biddwell-Smith.
[11:56]And both of them had lost their mothers
[11:58]and wrote written memoirs about that.
[12:00]And both of them had been divorced.
[12:02]And I have also been divorced.
[12:04]And as a view.
[12:05]So this new theory came out of this discussion
[12:08]because a friend of mine who was not divorced
[12:10]said, you know, what is it that makes,
[12:13]because now everybody's, I'm not being rare to take it here.
[12:16]But she was saying people who have been divorced
[12:19]and are in new relationships
[12:21]don't ever have this like creative spur, you know,
[12:24]is the divorce itself, what causes the creativity.
[12:28]And then I said, you know what?
[12:30]I don't think it's the divorce.
[12:31]I think that the commonality is the loss
[12:34]that once you've had a loss, you realize
[12:37]like you're very aware that life is way too short.
[12:40]Like, and that this is your only shot, right?
[12:42]And I feel like people maybe who haven't been shocked
[12:45]by a big loss at some point in their lives.
[12:47]Maybe not to say that if you've had a loss,
[12:49]you're going to get divorced, but there's something about,
[12:52]right, do you know what I mean?
[12:55]Yeah, I do.
[12:56]I mean, I think there's a couple things
[12:58]that I think about that.
[12:59]I think that when you have a lot, at least for me,
[13:01]when you have a loss, like it made me,
[13:02]I think it made me more aware of like my feelings
[13:07]and sort of looking more inside.
[13:09]And that's when I think that, yeah, it was about then
[13:11]when I started like doing creative writing
[13:13]and getting more into that and sort of more in touch
[13:16]with getting my thoughts and my feelings down on paper.
[13:19]But then as far, this is, I'm not quite making
[13:21]the connection that you made, but then as far as like,
[13:23]when you get divorced, I didn't necessarily become more
[13:26]creative when I went through a divorce,
[13:28]but, you know, I had more time to myself.
[13:32]Yeah.
[13:32]And, you know, nights when I didn't have my son with me
[13:35]and, you know, it was just like,
[13:36]happen away on the computer and working on this book.
[13:40]And I don't, it wasn't like I thought,
[13:42]okay, I got divorced so now I'm gonna write a book.
[13:44]No, no, yeah.
[13:45]But I just, I don't know, I feel like I accomplished
[13:48]a lot more after I got divorced.
[13:53]It's like, imagine how much everybody would be
[13:55]accomplishing without having kids all the time.
[13:57]Right.
[13:58]I know.
[13:58]I feel like super heroes.
[13:59]I feel like everyone's like, how do you get stepped in?
[14:01]I'm like, well, I do have, you know, eight days a month
[14:04]where I don't have custody of my kids.
[14:06]Right.
[14:06]I could either sit there and cry,
[14:08]which sometimes I do.
[14:09]Yeah.
[14:10]Or I could just be super productive with that.
[14:11]Right. Exactly.
[14:12]Anyway.
[14:13]And you had a great scene with Beatrice and her husband where
[14:15]he wrote, I wondered how our marriage could go on.
[14:17]When I always cringe at the site of him,
[14:19]the site that at one point he made me smile
[14:20]until my cheeks are.
[14:22]So I love that.
[14:23]I feel like that juxtaposition is so great.
[14:24]How can someone, yeah, it was like the beel endel,
[14:28]end up somebody else who's like tossed aside in a way?
[14:31]Yeah.
[14:32]And it's, I think it's interesting how, you know,
[14:35]your feelings for someone can change in like an instant
[14:38]or like, very, very quickly.
[14:40]And, you know, something can happen or some sort of, you know,
[14:43]evil or something can happen.
[14:45]And your love just turns to,
[14:47]can turn to anger.
[14:49]And it's very difficult to make that go away, I think,
[14:53]and to go back to the place where you were.
[14:55]After something's happened, I agree with that.
[14:58]In terms of getting a lot out of the writing,
[15:00]because you have Beatrice in the book actually right as well.
[15:03]And you say how strange and incredible the feeling was
[15:07]to see her words in print.
[15:08]And she said, seeing my view of a moment in time,
[15:11]smelling the ink of my words, that felt good.
[15:13]Some wondering, does it feel equally good
[15:15]when you see your words in print in this book?
[15:18]I mean, is that the most amazing feeling?
[15:19]Yeah, I mean, it's pretty awesome to see it in book form,
[15:23]you know, in the advanced coffee.
[15:24]But I think also, you know, just from my journalism background,
[15:27]I just remember that first time, you know,
[15:30]it got article published and seeing it was like this big,
[15:33]tiny, but seeing like something actually get published
[15:36]just feels amazing.
[15:37]And I think no matter how many articles I've written
[15:40]over the years, like it always just feels,
[15:42]I feel incredibly proud of getting something published.
[15:44]It feels good.
[15:45]It feels good.
[15:46]Like these like specific, measurable, like tangible things
[15:51]like so much in life is just, you know, not tangible at all.
[15:54]You also have another great character in the book named Dolly,
[15:56]who has like amazing influence on Beatrice.
[15:58]And Dolly, at times, was talking about how bored she can be
[16:01]with, you know, all the, you know, society ladies and blah,
[16:04]blah, blah, but that she looks for ideas everywhere she goes.
[16:08]And that's how she gets through some of that,
[16:09]not such exciting stuff.
[16:12]Right.
[16:13]Do you feel like that happens to you too?
[16:14]Or is there a particular moment you remember,
[16:17]like having to survive something,
[16:18]but then your brain goes somewhere else,
[16:20]and you come up with some great idea?
[16:21]I think ideas come to me when I nap.
[16:24]Okay.
[16:25]Which happens very rarely these days.
[16:27]But sometimes when I'm, when I'm writing,
[16:30]if I get stuck on something, if I take a little nap,
[16:32]sometimes I feel like the idea comes to me
[16:34]right as I'm falling asleep.
[16:36]But, you know, I really should nap more.
[16:38]You should.
[16:39]Oh my gosh.
[16:40]That's like the, like, you have like a golden ticket to nap
[16:43]like every day.
[16:44]Right.
[16:45]I should schedule that.
[16:46]You should.
[16:47]It really doesn't happen though.
[16:48]No, I mean, that's what they say.
[16:49]Wait a minute, like that we're so busy
[16:51]and we fill every second and we're checking our funds
[16:54]and set it up, but that if you just take a walk in the,
[16:56]in the park.
[16:57]Things will come to you.
[16:58]It's like what you're saying as soon as you unplug.
[17:00]Mm-hmm.
[17:01]Wow.
[17:02]All right, well maybe, maybe I'll take a nap.
[17:05]Right, take a nap this afternoon.
[17:07]So, are you working on anything else now?
[17:09]Or are you?
[17:10]You are.
[17:11]I'm working on a second novel.
[17:13]And this one is set in the 20s during prohibition
[17:17]and it takes place in the Adirondex and in Manhattan.
[17:21]And yeah, it's fun.
[17:23]It's a fun time period to work on the 20s
[17:25]and all the fashion and it's really,
[17:27]it's having a lot of fun with it.
[17:28]And you have nine-year-old and three-month-old.
[17:31]Yeah.
[17:31]So when are you not to say that people with nine-year-olds
[17:34]and three-month-olds can't write?
[17:35]But it's challenge.
[17:36]So when and where are you writing music?
[17:39]So I write at a workspace called the writers' room.
[17:43]It's downtown by an astroplace area.
[17:47]And it's this workspace for writers.
[17:49]And it's just a big loft and a bunch of desks
[17:51]and it's totally silent.
[17:52]And it's funny, all these writers come in
[17:55]from the hustle and bustle of the city
[17:56]and they just sit in silence and I have a way.
[17:59]But I get so much work done there,
[18:01]so much more work done there than I do at home.
[18:03]So that's where I work.
[18:05]And finding the time, you know, I actually find that
[18:08]when I have a small child, I get sort of more productive
[18:13]because you have to schedule your time.
[18:14]You're like, OK, I've got two hours or I've got three hours.
[18:16]That's it.
[18:17]After that, I'm not going to have it.
[18:18]So it's like you make the most of those couple of hours.
[18:21]But yeah, my nine-year-olds in school, so.
[18:24]Yeah.
[18:25]So exciting.
[18:26]Do you have any advice to aspiring authors
[18:29]having been through this process?
[18:32]Well, I would say probably one of the things
[18:35]that helped me out most is I remember
[18:37]of a writing workshop and we meet every Thursday night
[18:41]and it's led by a novelist Jennifer Bell who's awesome.
[18:46]And we've been meeting for years and we meet every Thursday
[18:49]and we just bring in pages of what we've been working on
[18:51]and we just read it to each other and we give each other
[18:54]our gut instinct and then we go to the next person.
[18:57]So it's kind of informal, but we just do it.
[19:00]And it's just the structure of that weekly meeting,
[19:03]knowing we have to show out with some pages
[19:05]and that sort of accountability.
[19:08]And then also just hearing what you've written,
[19:10]hearing it out loud.
[19:12]It sort of takes it out of your head and makes it something real.
[19:15]It has been incredibly helpful for me.
[19:18]So I would recommend to aspiring writers to find a group
[19:22]or find some fellow writers and get something on the calendar,
[19:27]something regular.
[19:28]It's great advice.
[19:29]So everyone who's listened to the end,
[19:31]we have to congratulate Nicola on finishing her first podcast.
[19:34]Yeah, I made it.
[19:35]We did her on Instagram at Nicholas Harrison, right?
[19:39]At Nicholas.
[19:40]What's your?
[19:40]Well, we'll look it up.
[19:41]I think it's at Nicholas Harrison author.
[19:43]At Nicholas Harrison author or through my website
[19:46]or whatever and give her one of those little clappy images.
[19:50]I just wanted to say, I love your podcast.
[19:52]And I think it's so good, not just for readers,
[19:55]but for writers also.
[19:57]And the reason I like it is because when I'm on my way
[20:00]to go for a writing day at the writers' room.
[20:02]I like to put it on when I'm on the subway
[20:03]and listen to a podcast.
[20:04]And here, other writers talk about their process
[20:09]and their inspiration and what their challenge is.
[20:13]And I like it because it gets me pumped up for the day
[20:16]for my writing day.
[20:17]And it helps me relate to other people.
[20:20]That doesn't make any sense.
[20:21]It makes sense.
[20:22]But it helps me to be kind of, OK,
[20:25]they're having trouble with that as well.
[20:26]And they're having trouble with that plot point.
[20:28]And it helps me just relate to them.
[20:31]It gets me pumped up for my writing day.
[20:33]It's awesome.
[20:33]And you're going to make everybody take a nap.
[20:35]Yeah, as well.
[20:36]I would like one myself.
[20:39]All right, thanks for coming in so much.
[20:41]OK, bye-bye.
[20:43]Thanks again to my sponsor, Mermaid PillowCo.
[20:47]Mermaid PillowCo.com slash zibi.
[20:51]Enter code zibi for 10% off.
[20:53]Thanks so much.
[20:54]Check out those really awesome giftable pillows and blankets.
[20:57]Thanks for listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[20:59]You can follow me on Instagram at Moms Don't Have Time
[21:02]to Read Books and at zibi Owens and my new podcast
[21:06]at Kids Do Have Time to Read.
[21:08]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[21:10]for the Sound Editing.
[21:12]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[21:13]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[21:16]Thanks for listening.
[21:17]You can always email me at zibi at zibi Owens.com.