Anissa Gray, THE CARE AND FEEDING OF RAVENOUSLY HUNGRY GIRLS
[0:00]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to Momstone Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:34]Vanessa Gray is the author of debut novel at the Care and Feeding of Ravenously Hungry Girls.
[0:39]Originally a print journalist at Reuters, Vanessa moved to broadcast journalism and became
[0:43]a writer, editor, and producer at CNN for which she received Emmy and DuPont Awards.
[0:49]A graduate of Western Michigan University, she received her masters in English from NYU.
[0:53]Hi, Vanessa, how are you?
[0:55]I'm good, how are you, Zibi?
[0:56]I'm good.
[0:57]Thanks so much for coming on Momstone Have Time to Read Books.
[1:00]Thank you for having me.
[1:01]Would you mind telling listeners what the Care and Feeding of Ravenously Hungry Girls is
[1:05]about?
[1:06]It's about what happens to a family after its matriarch and our husband are sent to prison
[1:11]after defrauding their town.
[1:14]Her two sisters are forced to return home to deal with the fallout and care for the couple's
[1:19]two troubled teenage daughters.
[1:21]I think what you see as a narrative unfolds is a family moving through the challenges
[1:27]of forgiveness in some imperfect but I think ultimately hopeful ways.
[1:33]Totally.
[1:34]It was so good.
[1:35]Thank you so much.
[1:36]You're welcome.
[1:37]Sure.
[1:38]So this is your debut novel after a career that you've spent in print and broadcast journalism.
[1:42]What made you turn to fiction writing at this stage in your career and why did you start
[1:45]with this particular story, this book?
[1:48]What made me change?
[1:49]I've wanted to be a novelist ever since I was a kid, so growing up I was a big reader
[1:54]but I also enjoyed writing stories just for myself.
[1:57]But when I went away to college and graduated with student loan debt and all other associated
[2:03]costs of life, I realized that I needed a paying job.
[2:07]So I went in the direction of journalism which I loved but I reached a point in my career
[2:12]a few years ago when I started to feel a little bit burned out and that's when I revisited
[2:18]that sort of childhood and adolescent dream of being a writer.
[2:23]And how did you end up picking this title?
[2:25]The Karen Seating, Brevinously Hungry Girls.
[2:27]Yes.
[2:28]This title was born with my initial idea for this book.
[2:32]So when I sat down to write this book, what you have in your hands now or what you've
[2:36]read, that's not the book I intended to write.
[2:38]The book I intended to write was about the character Viola and her life dealing with
[2:44]an eating disorder and the aftermath of that.
[2:47]So the title attached quite well to that but the story just wasn't coming together.
[2:52]I was just sort of flat on the page.
[2:54]So what I did was took a step back and started to view her through the lens of family.
[2:59]And when I did that, it just became a much broader and richer story.
[3:04]But the title still stuck because one of the things you learned in treatment for an eating
[3:09]disorder is that it is not about the food, it's about those hollow places.
[3:14]And you see that in the other siblings as well.
[3:17]I think that the way you wrote about Viola's eating disorder was one of the best ways
[3:22]I've seen eating disorders written about in fiction, to be honest, I mean, I see why
[3:26]you were going to make it a whole book, I mean.
[3:28]Like Viola was for sure, you know what, you kept alternating characters and I kept waiting
[3:33]to get back to hers.
[3:34]Not that the others were not also just as strong but there was something about Viola that
[3:38]I was really drawn to.
[3:40]One of the things in a binge eating episode that Viola goes through, which was followed
[3:44]by violent purging, you wrote about sort of that fuzzy white noise that stayed calm the
[3:48]Viola achieves and you wrote that calm I felt that fuzzy white noise is afterwards.
[3:53]It's leaving too.
[3:54]And here arrives that always comes next, this need, nothing short of crotch grabbing desire,
[3:59]spreading up and seizing my brain until I can think of nothing else, the zombie stirs.
[4:02]And then later you write the zombie walks, there's no taking this dead-eyed monster
[4:07]down with a good headshot, a good blast of rational thought, I'm alive with it, pulsing
[4:11]with adrenaline, desire and dread, I reach for the Oreos.
[4:14]That was amazing.
[4:16]It's like, it's so alive, it's like you're right there with her the whole time.
[4:21]So tell me a little bit about how you were able to capture these feelings about sort
[4:25]of her state of mind.
[4:27]Well, just sort of to start with, you know, I've experienced that.
[4:32]It's a world that I'm, you know, unfortunately quite familiar with.
[4:37]But for me, as the writer, the question was how much do you put on the page, how much
[4:41]detailed do you go into, and I won't, you know, done on it to a spoiler for readers,
[4:46]but the whole scene that you're referring to is pretty, you know, detailed, to say the
[4:52]least.
[4:53]So for me, it was just making a decision to take what I know and to show it in the fullest
[4:59]possible way that I was capable of.
[5:01]Well, I'm really grateful that you shared it because I know so many people go through
[5:05]the same thing and often feeling alone is one of the consequences of that and being able
[5:10]able to read about someone else's struggle is so helpful.
[5:13]So I'm really glad you put it down there.
[5:16]Even as fiction.
[5:17]Thank you.
[5:18]Eating disorders are, yeah, like most things, very private disorders, but more common
[5:23]than, you know, most people are than most people know.
[5:26]I did my senior thesis in psychology about eating disorders, just FYI, so I have to tell
[5:31]you, you know what I'm saying.
[5:33]I know what you're saying.
[5:36]So Viola has this relapse, which, you know, you introduced very early, so hopefully it's
[5:41]not a spoiler, but it was very early in the book, but you also have her as a therapist
[5:46]to girls with eating disorders.
[5:47]So I was just wondering how you feel her own experience sort of as she continues to go
[5:52]through it affects her role as a helper to others who are still struggling.
[5:55]Well, there's a point in the book where she talks about how important the job is to
[5:59]her.
[6:00]She's a therapist in an eating disorders clinic, but she is in full relapse at that point.
[6:05]And she knows that she cannot really be effective in her job because she's not being
[6:09]honest.
[6:10]So that's problematic there, but towards the end of the book, and I'm trying to answer
[6:17]the way that I don't give anything away, so for the end of the book, we don't know
[6:20]if she's going to go back or not.
[6:23]And so I'm not entirely sure if she feels like she's able to be useful, at least at that
[6:31]point in her life and in her efforts to recover after relapse.
[6:35]I feel like having a therapist who sort of knows what you're going through, it's like
[6:38]if you see someone about parenting and they have kids, I don't know.
[6:42]I think it doesn't have to, but I think it can help.
[6:46]I don't know.
[6:47]I think you're right.
[6:48]I mean, that's one of the reason group therapy is so effective, at least it was for me
[6:53]and my treatment experience because you're sitting in a room and you're describing something
[6:58]that not a lot of people understand and you don't have to give any back story, you don't
[7:02]have to explain yourself, you can just talk and people understand you.
[7:07]So I feel like there's so many mixed things about treatment for all sorts of mental illnesses
[7:12]and disorders.
[7:13]And I thought the scene that you created at the Burger King when Viola is having, you
[7:17]know, flashing back to this meal she had with her dad and is trying to open up to him
[7:21]and he says to her, don't be acting no fool up there with your teachers.
[7:25]Ain't no such thing as depressed.
[7:26]You just make it your business to get something in your head, you hear me?
[7:29]And I felt like that was so just, I don't know, representative of the many people who feel
[7:33]like, okay, you're depressed, just snap out of it.
[7:36]Yeah.
[7:37]But of course, that's not what depression is about at all and it just sort of can make
[7:40]the person feel worse.
[7:41]Yeah.
[7:42]So I really, I liked how you did that.
[7:44]What do you think people should do who are depressed but have to, you know, encounter loved
[7:49]ones who thinks it's all just a matter of making up your mind not to be that way?
[7:53]I think the best a person can do is to go and get good trusted competent help for themselves
[8:01]because it's just true that a lot of people don't understand that depression is a real disorder.
[8:07]It's a real thing.
[8:08]It's not, you know, putting on, it's not, it goes beyond being sad and a lot of people
[8:14]don't understand that.
[8:15]So to talk a little about Althea and Proctor is sort of the main couple who in the very
[8:19]beginning end up, you know, you see them as transgressing and committing this crime.
[8:24]When Proctor sends lyrics to Althea through the mail, he says, you and I are charged with
[8:29]this to hold the essence of a kiss, to take these broken plans and make them rhyme.
[8:33]So I'm wondering, do you think Althea was able to do that successfully at all?
[8:37]One of the things I think about the book and sort of broadly speaking is that you don't
[8:43]really get a neat tie up at the end for these characters, but I think you get enough
[8:47]at the end to see that it is possible, that their trajectory has changed in a way that
[8:54]they may be moving in a different direction, a much more positive direction.
[8:58]And I think that's true at the end with Althea.
[9:01]Now can I say for sure, I'd love to hear what readers think, but in my mind as the writer,
[9:07]I feel that at the end of the book Althea is set up to pursue a different course, a much
[9:14]more positive one.
[9:15]Yeah.
[9:16]I agree.
[9:18]Thank you.
[9:20]No problem.
[9:21]So you spent a bunch of time in the book with Althea in a prayer group in prison and you
[9:28]developed this character Mercedes along with her and I was wondering what you think the role
[9:32]of religion is here or in the book, what you were trying to say about it, if anything.
[9:37]Well, I think a lot of that is just sort of, I am the daughter of a preacher.
[9:41]I don't follow the faith that I was raised with, but I still understand it and I see
[9:47]how transformative it has been for people I've known.
[9:51]So I think some of that is sort of transferred here into the book, sort of my understanding
[9:56]of religion and what I've seen it and how I've seen it.
[10:00]sort of help people who are in difficult periods.
[10:03]So in this book, I think there's sort of a broad look
[10:07]at face.
[10:08]Althea is not really a person to face,
[10:09]and she, you know, makes her way,
[10:11]and she finds her comfort in her way.
[10:14]In the case of Mercedes, she is a person to face,
[10:17]and it means a lot for her,
[10:19]and it is helping her through a very difficult time.
[10:23]So I see it as sort of one of the many ways
[10:26]where sort of the care part of care and feeding
[10:29]comes into play.
[10:31]So just broadly, did you enjoy writing this novel?
[10:34]Like, what was it like for you after wanting to do it
[10:36]for so long, and then just deciding to do it?
[10:38]Was it fun?
[10:40]It had its moments there, you know,
[10:44]during the, it took about three years,
[10:46]and over the course of that time, you know,
[10:48]there were starts and stops.
[10:49]The big one being, you know, starting off
[10:52]with a completely different book and six months in,
[10:54]I'm like, it's not that book and throwing all that away.
[10:56]That wasn't fun.
[10:57]No.
[10:58]But that doesn't tell anybody.
[11:01]No, it wasn't.
[11:02]But sort of finding your way
[11:04]and watching these characters sort of come alive on the page,
[11:08]that part of writing is absolutely priceless.
[11:11]Your characters were particularly alive, to me.
[11:14]Verse, I mean, I know I read like tons and tons of books,
[11:16]but for some reason, when I would put the book down
[11:18]and go about my life and do something else,
[11:20]I kept being like, oh, I wonder, like,
[11:21]what proctors of two today, and yeah,
[11:23]like, I kept thinking, but they felt so real to me.
[11:26]It was like almost a little creepy.
[11:27]I don't know.
[11:28]Now, I need like a continuing story of them,
[11:31]or so, I don't know.
[11:32]Now, that's good.
[11:33]That's good to get to here,
[11:34]then they're doing exactly what they're supposed to do.
[11:35]Like, what's up with Kim?
[11:37]What's going on?
[11:37]Anyway, so when and where did you write this book?
[11:41]Like, are you a go to the library type of person?
[11:43]I know you, I saw a video where you were sort of
[11:46]extolling the values of libraries,
[11:48]but is that where you like to write or do you write at home?
[11:50]I write mostly at home, writing this book,
[11:52]it was sort of a journey woman's adventure.
[11:56]I started out writing in a spare room.
[11:58]We have on a, those TV tables.
[12:01]It's not stretched up there.
[12:02]So I started there and then we decided to renovate that room.
[12:05]So I was cast out to the library,
[12:07]where I worked a good deal of the time.
[12:10]And then I was sometimes working at the kitchen table,
[12:13]and eventually I, you know,
[12:15]went and worked in the renovated spare room.
[12:17]So for me, I'm able to work generally anywhere.
[12:22]And I think a lot of that comes from sort of the discipline
[12:25]of being, having been a journalist
[12:27]for, you know, much of my professional career.
[12:29]You have a deadline to do it and do it where you can't.
[12:33]As you went along, would you show people?
[12:35]Like, who told you you had to switch gears?
[12:37]I came to see that.
[12:39]I went to one to one workshop,
[12:42]and I got sort of a separate reaction,
[12:44]but it sort of reinforced what I already knew.
[12:47]Okay. Would you do it again?
[12:49]The whole novel writing business?
[12:51]Yes, in fact, I am doing it again.
[12:52]No, there you go.
[12:55]I'm in the process of doing it again, yeah.
[12:57]What is your next book of M?
[12:58]Can you say?
[13:00]Just sort of generally, so it's not to jinx myself,
[13:02]but it is also a family story, a much smaller family,
[13:06]but it's sort of what happens in the aftermath
[13:08]of the disappearance of the father.
[13:10]Oh, it's so funny.
[13:11]I feel like a lot of authors, it's like,
[13:15]they don't wanna talk about the next book
[13:16]because of jinxing themselves, like you just said.
[13:18]It's like, no, it's like, the whole thing is almost like,
[13:21]luck to, like, I feel like it's coming out of you.
[13:25]It's completely irrational.
[13:26]No, no, it's just, it's completely irrational,
[13:27]but you're not alone in that.
[13:29]It's like, everybody feels that way.
[13:31]Everybody's like, well, I can't tell you what this is about,
[13:33]or I don't know, if I say too much, it won't come true
[13:36]as if it's, you know.
[13:37]We writers sort of can a lot of our hopes on, you know,
[13:40]wings, prayers and, you know, the ability to get down
[13:43]some straight thought we had, you know, six months ago.
[13:47]So funny.
[13:50]I saw a video on, I think, the Penguin website,
[13:52]you told writers to, they'd asked you for advice to young writers,
[13:56]and you said that you should write a lot,
[13:58]but expect it to be terrible, basically.
[14:00]Like, expect, which I kind of laughed.
[14:03]I laughed out, laughed out at that.
[14:04]I was like, yeah, tell it like it is.
[14:06]Like, you said, expect sub-par writing.
[14:08]It's like, all right, well, here I go,
[14:10]writing this terrible stuff.
[14:11]Well, you know, sadly it's true, and that's, you know,
[14:14]that even now, as I said, I write to a schedule,
[14:18]I don't wait for inspiration.
[14:19]So I sort of find it on the page,
[14:21]but sometimes it's a journey to finding it on the page,
[14:24]and you're writing a lot of bad stuff
[14:26]to get to the good stuff.
[14:28]I guess that's just part of the process.
[14:29]I mean, does anybody just sit down and write
[14:31]in a genius way, everything is like a final draft?
[14:34]I think just part of the process is writing and rewriting it.
[14:37]Yeah.
[14:38]Writing is rewriting, and they say that, you know,
[14:40]for reasons, not just cliche.
[14:42]And you are a huge fan of reading
[14:44]and the importance of reading as I am as well,
[14:46]which it's great.
[14:48]It's like, why do this?
[14:49]Have you read anything good lately,
[14:50]or do you have any books you would recommend
[14:52]or that influenced you a lot?
[14:54]One of the books I just finished reading was
[14:56]Manhattan Beach by Jennifer Egan,
[14:59]and I would recommend that book wholeheartedly.
[15:02]And as a companion to that, I would recommend her book
[15:05]before that, visit from the Goonsquat.
[15:07]They are two completely different books
[15:10]that show just an incredible range of one writer.
[15:14]So if you're sort of interested in A, a good story,
[15:17]you'll find that in both of those books,
[15:19]and B, watching a master at work, read those two books.
[15:23]I read Manhattan Beach, but I did not read
[15:25]visit from the Goonsquat, but it's here.
[15:26]I have it.
[15:27]So it's a completely different book.
[15:30]It's something.
[15:32]And why do you think reading is so important?
[15:34]So sell busy moms on why it's worth it
[15:37]to spend the time reading.
[15:39]Well, one of the things I say about reading
[15:42]is that it allows you to inhabit a different world,
[15:45]which is fun for you as the reader.
[15:47]But one of the benefits of that is that it helps you connect
[15:51]with people and experiences that aren't your own.
[15:55]And through that, we build empathy.
[15:58]I think we are more inclined to listen to and care
[16:01]for one another more when we're interested.
[16:05]And we're respecting the fact that not everyone is like us
[16:08]and they may be different for some specific reasons.
[16:11]So I think it just sort of makes society better
[16:14]to have it people to with people who read a lot.
[16:18]Excellent.
[16:19]Well, thank you so much for coming on mom's turn out
[16:20]time to read books.
[16:21]I really appreciate your candid answers and all the time
[16:24]you spent.
[16:26]Thank you very much.
[16:27]All right.
[16:28]Thank you.
[16:28]Bye bye.
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