Jessica Turner, Author of STRETCHED TOO THIN
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to Momstone Have Time to Read Books.
[0:12]This episode has been sponsored by Bookhampton.
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[0:28]I'm excited to be here today with Jessica Turner.
[0:30]Jessica N. Turner is the author of The Fringe Hours Making Time for You, a best-selling book,
[0:36]and is the author of Lifestyle Blog The Mom Creative.
[0:38]Her latest book, Stretch Too Thin, How Working Moms Can Lose the Gilt, Work Smarter
[0:42]and Thrive.
[0:43]The website for that is stretchtoothinbook.com, came out in September 2018, a frequent speaker
[0:50]on work-life balance, productivity, and faith.
[0:53]Jessica lives in National Tennessee with her husband and three young children.
[0:56]You can follow her on Instagram at Jessica N. Turner or at Book Snobbery.
[1:01]Hey, Jessica.
[1:02]Thanks so much for coming on Momstone Have Time to Read Books.
[1:04]Hey there.
[1:05]I'm so glad to be here.
[1:06]So what prompted you to write the book, Stretch Too Thin?
[1:10]Were you feeling stretchtoothin' yourself as a mom?
[1:12]You know, I hear that question a lot, and the complicated answer is yes and no.
[1:18]I mean, I had signed a two-book deal.
[1:20]My first book, I knew what I was going to write.
[1:22]The first book is called The Fringe Hours Making Time for You.
[1:24]And I didn't know what I was going to do next.
[1:27]And at first, I thought I would write a book about slowing down and after six months
[1:30]of trying to do that, I realized I wasn't the person for that.
[1:34]And so I thought, well, what do I know?
[1:37]Well, I know what it is like to have a full-time job, a career, and a couple of kids, and
[1:43]a marriage, and that it can really feel overwhelming.
[1:45]And so I did a survey of working moms just to kind of gut check if this might be something
[1:52]worth pursuing, and had over 2,000 women respond in just a couple days had, oh gosh, I think
[1:58]probably 500 pages of open-ended responses, and over and over and over again the women said
[2:04]the phrase stretched too thin.
[2:06]And so I thought, you know what, I think I've got something here.
[2:09]How did you find the women for your survey?
[2:11]So I'm a blogger.
[2:13]I've been blogging since 2006, and so most of it was just through my online platform,
[2:18]as well as friends sharing about the survey as well.
[2:21]So we were able to get women from across the country those who worked full-time, part-time,
[2:25]at home, in an office, in a retail setting, all types of jobs and positions.
[2:30]So it was a really well-rounded survey, which I was really pleased with.
[2:33]What were some of the surprising, were there any surprising findings, I should say, among
[2:36]this group of women?
[2:38]You know, I think the most surprising statistic was that most women didn't say that they
[2:44]had troubles with work boundaries, which I felt like maybe they don't know how they define
[2:49]those boundaries, because for me I would say if I'm looking at work email at night, that
[2:55]means that I don't have a great boundary in place with that.
[2:58]But I think it has become so ingrained in the way we do life, that we just have this
[3:02]little computer in our hand all the time, that we don't even recognize that that's a
[3:06]boundary that we don't have in place.
[3:08]So I think when I talk with women, anecdotally, it seems like a lot of women have trouble
[3:12]with boundaries with work, but the survey didn't really reflect that.
[3:16]Got it.
[3:17]And what were the most consistent findings in your survey, aside from feeling stretch-toothin?
[3:21]I think the biggest no surprises here were that the two biggest struggles for working
[3:26]moms were that they struggled with home management, four out of five, cited that as being
[3:31]a challenge, and four out of five, cited self-care as being a challenge.
[3:35]And I think that is not a surprise to any of us.
[3:37]I'm trying to get women to think that reading is a form of self-care, right?
[3:42]It's an easy, the easiest one to do, right?
[3:44]You just pick up the books.
[3:45]Absolutely.
[3:46]You don't have to write, you don't have to jump in a bathtub or something crazy, right?
[3:48]You just have to open up a book.
[3:50]That's so true.
[3:51]And you know what, data backs that up, because my first book, The Fringe Hours, I also
[3:55]did online research and did a survey.
[3:59]And the number one thing that women said they would do if they had more time was reading.
[4:02]And it's so funny, because it's the easiest thing to do, right?
[4:05]Like you can read your Kindle app on your phone, or you can be listening to a book while
[4:08]you're doing chores.
[4:09]I mean, you can read anywhere.
[4:11]So I agree with you.
[4:12]100%.
[4:13]I think people maybe feel too much pressure to finish lots and lots of books.
[4:16]But I'm like, if you read two pages a night, a friend just emailed me today.
[4:19]Like, oh, but I only read two pages a night.
[4:21]It takes me a month to finish a book.
[4:22]And I'm like, but that's great.
[4:23]A book a month.
[4:24]How great is that?
[4:25]Anyway, I'm getting off topic.
[4:26]So you say in the book that you want moms to be able to say with pride, quote, I love
[4:34]my family.
[4:35]I do great work.
[4:36]I'm thriving.
[4:37]So if you have a bazillion tips in this book, and it is so useful and amazing, and I'm
[4:41]like, and I use it as my Bible.
[4:43]But what are some of the best tips that moms who are listening now could take out of
[4:47]it and take away?
[4:48]My biggest tip is for women to track their time for a week.
[4:52]And that is an exercise where you literally write down everything that you're doing through
[4:56]or out the week.
[4:57]Just like we track our food or we track our steps or our calories, you're tracking all
[5:01]of your activities.
[5:02]So not just the big things.
[5:03]You're not just writing work for eight hours, but you're actually writing what you're
[5:06]doing within that.
[5:07]You're writing if you're taking a lunch break, you're writing the drop off line and
[5:10]soccer practice and all those things because I think that it gives you a really great perspective
[5:14]in what you're doing, where your time is going, and where there's opportunities to
[5:18]make change.
[5:19]So that's step number one.
[5:20]Step number two is to take care of yourself and really give yourself that permission to
[5:25]practice self-care.
[5:27]It is that oxygen mask philosophy that you've got to take care of yourself before you can
[5:30]take care of anyone and everything else.
[5:31]And you're going to be the best wife, the best mom, the best friend, the best co-worker
[5:35]when you're taking care of yourself.
[5:37]So make that a priority even if you have to put yourself on the calendar, do the things
[5:41]that you need to do to take care of yourself.
[5:43]And self-care is so much more than massages and manicures, right?
[5:46]It is our health.
[5:47]It's going to the doctor.
[5:48]It is getting enough sleep, drinking enough water.
[5:50]It's eating well.
[5:51]It's doing those things that bring us joy, like reading.
[5:54]It's also making time for community and making time to be with friends.
[5:57]I think that's another important piece that a lot of women miss.
[6:01]So number two would be to practice self-care.
[6:03]Number three is to recognize that you're not going to be able to overhaul everything.
[6:07]If you're interested in all of the areas that I talk about in the book, because every chapter
[6:10]I break down a different pain point for working moms, listen, I get it.
[6:14]But you're not going to be able to change all of those things.
[6:16]So start with one thing.
[6:17]If home management is a struggle and then within home management, your kitchen is always
[6:20]a hot mess.
[6:21]Okay.
[6:22]Start with just one thing and then build on that.
[6:23]I like it.
[6:24]Small steps.
[6:25]So one of the things you say in the book is you recommend mom spend less time on social
[6:29]media.
[6:30]And yet you are this giant social media star and just online social media, your blog,
[6:35]everything.
[6:36]What's the best way for moms to approach social media?
[6:38]Do you think?
[6:39]Working one.
[6:40]So just because I have a business that's based on line doesn't mean that I don't have
[6:44]good boundaries in place.
[6:45]And so I think the theme here is having boundaries with that.
[6:49]So for me, I schedule my content so that I'm not glued to it 24-7 and I have an assistant
[6:55]that helps you manage some things and I write on weekends so I'm not having to work
[6:59]every single day necessarily on online content and that sort of thing.
[7:02]So I think that it is really good to check on how much social media you're consuming
[7:08]because so much comes from social media that isn't good, like comparison and jealousy
[7:13]and guilt and all of these types of feelings.
[7:16]And so I think recognizing that in yourself.
[7:19]I know I was noticing a season where I was getting really jealous and I was like, where
[7:23]is this coming from?
[7:24]And it was a few profiles and so I unfollowed those people so that then that toxicness
[7:29]wasn't impacting my day to day life.
[7:31]So it's really personal.
[7:32]The new iPhone interface, you know, tracks how much time that we're doing, which is really
[7:37]horrifying.
[7:38]It's horrifying to me every week, although I did realize that Audible is counted in
[7:43]like that average hour and I was like, okay, well, it's a little better if I know that
[7:48]but it's still alarming.
[7:49]It's a lot for sure.
[7:50]So it's something that you've got to make personal changes for some women.
[7:54]They'll find deleting the apps from their phone and then just checking them on their laptops
[7:59]is a good way to go because then there isn't that aimless grilling.
[8:02]I like to say women who say they don't have time to read but then they're on, you know,
[8:06]their iPhones four hours a day looking at Instagram and Facebook.
[8:09]Well, there you go.
[8:10]There's opportunity right there.
[8:11]Oh, I like it.
[8:12]Just swap out all that time.
[8:14]Now we have like an actual goal that's excellent.
[8:17]Is the smarter, high at smarter system?
[8:19]Is that the tracking that you were just referring or is the smarter system even more of
[8:24]that?
[8:25]I know it's an acronym for lots of different steps, but could you take me through the
[8:27]smarter system?
[8:28]Sure.
[8:29]So the smarter system is actually a goal tracking system.
[8:32]So it's not something related to time tracking or media consumption or anything like that.
[8:37]So smarter, there's smart goals are pretty popular vernacular but smarter is something
[8:42]that might be high at developed and it stands for specific measurable, actionable, risky,
[8:48]time-keyed, exciting and relevant.
[8:50]And so these are words that you use as you write goals for yourself and I think goals are
[8:56]really important because they give us motivation and grounding and direction.
[9:01]And so often we'll set goals for our businesses or the work that we do but we don't do
[9:05]them in our personal lives.
[9:06]And so I encourage women to use that little acronym of smarter to set good goals for themselves
[9:12]that they can keep themselves accountable for.
[9:14]Are there any particular goals that you use for yourself?
[9:17]They vary based on the season but I have goals for my personal development.
[9:21]I have goals for the work that I'm doing.
[9:24]I have goals for me as a mom that I pay attention to and goals for my own personal health,
[9:30]you know, whether that is exercise or how I'm eating those types of things.
[9:34]But using that lens has been really powerful for me.
[9:37]What are the some of the things like on a crazy afternoon, like let's pretend I'm standing
[9:41]in your living room at like 4.30 in the afternoon or something and you're, or maybe later,
[9:46]let's say 6.30, right?
[9:47]Because you're off of work in your home and everything's crazy.
[9:51]And everybody's screaming, I'm just, well, I'm assuming sometimes your kid's screen,
[9:53]my kid's screen.
[9:54]What do you do in that moment when you're feeling just totally overwhelmed?
[9:57]And you are like the author of this book, right?
[10:00]You can't have all the tips of your disposal.
[10:03]But probably y'all.
[10:04]Like, I mean, I'm going all right.
[10:06]Like, they say that you write from what you know well.
[10:09]So in those times where I'm really overwhelmed,
[10:12]I'm absolutely just like the rest of us.
[10:14]But I think what I've learned is I'm quick to apologize
[10:18]if that is the way that I react.
[10:19]And I'm quick to get down on my knees
[10:22]and get at the eye level of my kids and talk to them.
[10:25]I think that it's important for our kids to see our humanity,
[10:28]right? So I don't think that that makes me a better person
[10:32]just because I've written stretch too thin.
[10:34]No, I'm right in the muck of it during those moments.
[10:37]But you know, at 6.30, we were probably just wrapping up dinner
[10:41]and getting ready for baths and checking homework
[10:43]and that sort of thing.
[10:44]But I really try to be intentional about the time
[10:46]that I have with my kids.
[10:48]So because I work a traditional corporate job,
[10:50]I've gone a lot.
[10:52]And so during that time when I'm home from about 5.45,
[10:55]till they go to bed at 8, I do really want to be present.
[10:57]So you probably won't find my phone attached to me.
[11:01]It's probably in my purse or it's in the dining room.
[11:04]We actually are old school and stuff a landline.
[11:05]So we feel like if there's a real emergency,
[11:07]the people who need to reach us know that number.
[11:10]So hopefully I'm not screaming.
[11:11]Hopefully we're snuggled up on the couch watching
[11:13]food network or something like that or reading stories
[11:16]or that type of thing.
[11:17]But that doesn't happen every night.
[11:19]So when do you do everything?
[11:21]So you have a traditional corporate job.
[11:23]Is it revolving writing at all or blogging?
[11:26]Yeah, I work in marketing for a large health care company
[11:29]doing mostly social media content strategy and development.
[11:32]Nice.
[11:33]So you do that.
[11:34]And then you have a blog which is super popular
[11:36]and you've been doing for a while.
[11:38]And you write books.
[11:39]So when do you find the time to do this?
[11:41]If you're totally present with your kids
[11:43]until they go to bed, are you using your weekends?
[11:45]Or I'm not asking, like, I'm looking for suggestions here
[11:48]and how to find time to do it so any tips, you know?
[11:52]So I think that you always can find time for things
[11:54]that are important to you.
[11:55]And so if we use the book for an example,
[11:59]I got up at 4 30 or 5 and would get ready to leave
[12:03]for the day and would often leave the house by 5 30
[12:06]and be writing from 6 until 8 30.
[12:08]And then I worked my job all day for the blog.
[12:12]It's kind of the same thing.
[12:13]I'll get up early to do some writing.
[12:15]And then on weekends, I would take about a half day
[12:18]on Saturday and a half day on Sunday to work.
[12:20]But I would get up really early again.
[12:22]So I wouldn't miss out on a whole lot of time with the kids.
[12:24]And I'd be back home by noon or one o'clock.
[12:27]And so we'd still have the majority of the day together.
[12:29]But the book was written in small bytes of 500
[12:33]to 1,000 and 2,000 words at a time.
[12:35]And you have a long time to write a book.
[12:37]So I was able to do that over the course of probably
[12:40]four to six months to get the book written
[12:42]in the same with the blog.
[12:43]You know, I'm just working on the next thing,
[12:44]the next thing, the next thing, and not getting
[12:47]to the weeds of what I need to do a month or two months
[12:49]from now, because I don't have that capacity.
[12:52]It's also been really important for me
[12:53]to not compare myself to bloggers who do it full-time,
[12:57]which would be really easy for me to do,
[12:58]particularly if I looked at how many followers we have
[13:02]or what our traffic is like.
[13:03]I'd be able to say, oh, look, we're really equal,
[13:05]but we're not because I'm not able to put the same amount
[13:07]of time into it.
[13:07]So that's saying, notice some opportunities.
[13:10]It's streamlining some things.
[13:11]It's writing things that I'm only really passionate about
[13:13]and that I think makes sense for my audience.
[13:15]That makes sense.
[13:16]That's a good framework for that.
[13:18]When you talked in your book about relationships
[13:21]and how having enough time for your relationship
[13:24]is always a challenge, one tip you gave was reading together
[13:27]for how spouses or significant others
[13:29]could not be so much of a challenge.
[13:31]And I'm literally reading a book right now out loud
[13:33]to my husband because we both want to read it so badly.
[13:36]So I'm reading it out loud to him and I was like,
[13:38]wait, I thought I was the only one who did that.
[13:39]What other things aside from reading together
[13:41]do you suggest couples do to sort of stay glued together
[13:46]more, at least emotionally, during the chaos of childering?
[13:49]I think it's really important to just make time
[13:52]for one another.
[13:53]And that can be as simple as playing a game
[13:56]or reading together like you're doing.
[13:57]It doesn't necessarily have to mean going out,
[13:59]although I think going out can be a great way
[14:02]to reconnect and commit to not talking about kids
[14:05]and not talking about the house,
[14:07]but really talking about what one another are feeling
[14:10]and doing and listening and being present
[14:12]and putting our phones down.
[14:13]It is just an active commitment to invest in one another
[14:17]because here's the thing.
[14:18]Hopefully our children are going to leave someday, right?
[14:21]And so when they do, we have an empty nest.
[14:24]All we're left with is our spouses.
[14:26]And there's so many marriages that their kids leave
[14:29]and their left with brokenness
[14:31]because they haven't invested in one another.
[14:33]And so I think that it's just really important
[14:36]to commit to investing in one another
[14:38]even during these hiring hard little years.
[14:40]Okay, we'll do.
[14:41]I'm gonna note that and try to see more that this week.
[14:45]So I think I was maybe just really emotional
[14:47]when I got to year chapter seven,
[14:48]after like a particularly trying day with the kids,
[14:52]but in year chapter seven, which is titled,
[14:54]Parenting Well, you start and say,
[14:55]as we begin this chapter, first and foremost, know this.
[14:58]You are a great mom.
[14:59]The very fact that we're reading this book tells me,
[15:02]don't beat yourself up.
[15:03]And I literally just like started crying.
[15:05]I was like, thank you, someone thinks I'm a good mom today.
[15:07]And so I just sort of wanted to thank you
[15:09]for putting that in there.
[15:12]Do you think that part of good parenting is researching
[15:16]and trying to find more information about parenting
[15:19]or was it just more of a joke?
[15:21]But I think no, I don't think that you necessarily
[15:25]are a better person or parent if you are researching.
[15:29]I think that you are created for your child.
[15:33]Like nobody else was meant to be your child's mom.
[15:36]And so I think that in and of itself is really powerful
[15:40]and that we can become so distracted.
[15:42]I think particularly by social media
[15:43]when we're looking at everyone's highlight reels
[15:45]of what everyone is doing and how they're doing it
[15:48]or reading all of these books.
[15:49]I think books can be a really useful guide.
[15:52]But ultimately, I think we have what we need within ourselves
[15:56]and that every single mom's a great mom out there.
[15:59]I don't think anyone sets out to be a mom thinking
[16:01]that they're gonna be terrible or that they don't wanna do
[16:04]a good job.
[16:05]And we're all just doing it a little different and that's okay.
[16:08]So if you don't mind, tell me a little more
[16:10]about the process of getting this two book deal.
[16:13]So what happened?
[16:14]You're writing a blog and you got a lot of,
[16:16]well just tell me, I won't fill in the blanks.
[16:18]How did you go from writing your blog
[16:19]into the two book deal and tell me more about that, please?
[16:22]So it's important to know from my story
[16:25]that my husband is an author.
[16:27]And he's been writing full time since 2003.
[16:30]He has published about 20 books for grown-ups
[16:34]but now writes, kids books is best-selling book
[16:37]when God made you has sold more than 100,000 copies.
[16:40]And so he has a really phenomenal story and background.
[16:43]So I'm fortunate because I live with someone
[16:46]who does this really well for a living.
[16:49]And so I had that perspective.
[16:51]Being a blogger, I know a lot of authors
[16:53]and I'm friends with a lot of authors
[16:55]and always said that I was never going to write a book.
[16:58]That's something that was great for them
[16:59]but wasn't something that I had an appetite for.
[17:01]And I was at a blogging conference called Alt
[17:04]a few years ago and was in a segment or a program
[17:08]about time management.
[17:09]And during that session,
[17:11]the title The Fringe Hours came to me.
[17:14]And it sounds dramatic
[17:16]but I really felt like it was an active obedience
[17:18]to write a book called The Fringe Hours.
[17:20]It was not something I wanted to do.
[17:21]It was not something I had capacity to do.
[17:24]At the time I had just two kids
[17:27]and just really was overwhelmed by it.
[17:30]But felt like I needed to came home from that conference
[17:32]immediately started a book proposal.
[17:35]I found an agent because I didn't want to have the same agent
[17:37]as my husband.
[17:37]I just thought that would be weird
[17:38]and she started shopping the book.
[17:41]And I said, I just want to write this one book.
[17:42]I don't want to do anything else.
[17:44]I just feel like this is something I need to do.
[17:47]She said, okay.
[17:48]And nearly every publisher we pitched the book to you
[17:52]wanted to buy it.
[17:53]And so that was very fun and exciting.
[17:55]I had a big bidding war
[17:57]and I came down to two publishers
[17:59]and both publishers wanted a two book deal.
[18:02]And as an author, that is a good thing
[18:06]to sign a two book deal
[18:07]particularly when you're new like I was
[18:09]because your publisher's going to be more invested in you.
[18:12]If they know they're going to be stuck with you
[18:14]for a second book as well.
[18:17]So that was sort of how it came to be.
[18:19]You know, I just was going to do this one book
[18:21]and I got this offer for two
[18:24]and it was a really generous offer.
[18:26]And we figured we could figure it out down the road
[18:29]and I'm so glad that I did because I'm so proud
[18:32]of stretch to thin.
[18:33]And I think this is a conversation
[18:35]that we need to really be having.
[18:37]We don't have a lot of great resources out there
[18:39]for working moms.
[18:40]And this has been a tipping point for a lot of women.
[18:43]So I'm glad it worked out,
[18:44]but it was certainly not something that I set out to do
[18:47]when the idea for the first book came to me.
[18:49]And would you do it again?
[18:50]Do you have any more books than you know, any big callings?
[18:54]You know, it's too fresh right now.
[18:56]It definitely was hard.
[18:58]I found out that I was pregnant with my son, my third.
[19:02]I have two boys.
[19:02]My third child right during the time
[19:05]that I was writing the French hours.
[19:07]We actually had to push the pub date back
[19:08]because of my due date.
[19:10]And so I had him New Year's Eve
[19:12]and then six weeks later the book came out.
[19:13]And so I never thought that when I was writing
[19:17]the French hours and had two kids
[19:19]that I would have to do it again with having three kids.
[19:21]So right now I'm just really excited
[19:24]that stretch to thin came out as a hardback
[19:26]because the publisher believed in it so much.
[19:28]It's an airport bookstores and Target stores
[19:30]and everywhere books are sold.
[19:32]And so I'm just really enjoying that right now.
[19:34]It'll come out of paper back the next year.
[19:36]So it's hard to say right now.
[19:38]It's possible.
[19:39]But right now nothing has lived forward with that.
[19:43]Do you have any tips to other people?
[19:45]Maybe even people as busy as you if that's possible
[19:48]to our interested in writing books?
[19:50]I think that you can just start writing, you know?
[19:53]I mean, I wrote the French hours and stretched to thin
[19:56]literally in my French hours.
[19:57]In those little pockets of time I was able to...
[20:00]to write to 50,000 more books. So I think just get started. I think it's really important to
[20:05]have representation. So if it's something that you want to pursue having a traditional publisher,
[20:10]I think finding an agent is critical. I think it's very unusual to get a book deal if you don't
[20:16]have somebody representing you. I also think it's really important to build your platform.
[20:20]My understanding is that publishers want to sign authors that have platforms that have
[20:25]followings that will be able to help market their book. It's just as important that you can
[20:29]market as it is that you can write, which is not something that authors historically had to do.
[20:35]It's a new age and so it's important to have a platform and build a newsletter list as well.
[20:41]I think if you're pursuing being an author. And how might you go about accomplishing that
[20:46]you're very adept in this skill set sort of nailed, I feel like with your job and everything
[20:52]I've seen you do. What if somebody's trying to build that type of platform or they have like a band
[20:57]they're trying to market or something with today's framework as it is with social media and
[21:01]everything. What are some of the most important things or the most helpful things even if
[21:04]that they could do to achieve that goal? So it's different because I started 12 years ago.
[21:09]So what I did to build my platform isn't what people need to do today. But I think that ultimately
[21:14]it's about having really great content. And if you have content that resonates with people that
[21:19]you're not just throwing up a picture of your cat, right? Like no one is interested in that.
[21:23]Like how can you bring value to somebody's feed every single time they see an image from you on
[21:30]Instagram or on Facebook? So I think write really great content and bring value to people and they're
[21:36]going to keep coming back. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Don't have time
[21:41]to read books. Oh, it was my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Okay. Take care. Bye. Bye. This episode
[21:46]has been sponsored by bookhampton bookhampton dot com. Thanks to Ryan and Steve at texture sound
[21:52]for the audio editing and mixing. Thanks for listening to momstone. Have time to read books.