Madeline Puckette, Author of WINE FOLLY: MAGNUM EDITION
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[0:39]I'm here today with Madeline Peket, who is a certified summer yay and the co-author of
[0:44]Wine Folly Magnum Edition, along with Justin Hemick. With a background in design,
[0:49]Madeline launched the website WineFolly.com, which has become the world's most popular wine
[0:53]block. She currently lives in Seattle, Washington, so welcome to Madeline. Welcome Madeline. Thanks so much
[0:58]for being on mom's don't have time to read books. Thank you. So you start your book Wine Folly
[1:06]Magnum Edition with a section called Why Love Wine. So can you tell listeners why love wine
[1:12]if they don't happen to already? Well, it's really fascinating beverage because it gives you
[1:21]it's sort of a way to get into the world and discover the world of wine because wine grows
[1:26]pretty much everywhere and every single wine around the world has a different story to tell
[1:32]about that region, about that place and that people. So if you want to get into wine on that level
[1:38]as sort of in a cultural exploration, it's lots of fun, but there's more. It's about the soils,
[1:44]it's about the geology of the region. It's so many layers. So if you, wine will go as
[1:50]willing, as deep as you're willing to dive, I'm sure how I put it. But you know, for someone who
[1:56]just likes to drink into taste, it's at that level too. So it's lots of fun to explore as one
[2:04]of those things that follows along with you in life, if you let it into your life. Love it.
[2:11]So why do you think moms in particular get such comfort from a glass of wine at the end of a long
[2:15]day? I think you said it right there. I think there's really something to be said about
[2:22]ending your day and sort of putting a punctuation on the end of your day and a wine had just
[2:31]even a pouring a glass of wine. And I'm sure people are imagining this right now while listening
[2:38]actually. Yeah, there's a moment when you open that bottle of wine and pour it into the glass,
[2:44]you can, you can finally sort of breathe out and exhale. And, and what's amazing about wine is it
[2:52]has, if, if you teens are actively, if you're paying attention to your wine and not just drinking it,
[2:58]you have another sort of slower process that happens in sort of activates senses. You're
[3:03]using your nose and you're smelling with your nose and you're paying attention to smells.
[3:08]And I don't know how other, you know, moms feel about this, but smelling could be a really harsh thing
[3:16]in a mom's world. So it's to allow yourself to smell and to enjoy is a small pleasure that we can
[3:26]take every day if we want to. And even if you're trying to drink responsibly, we can do that every
[3:33]day. And I like what you said also about how it helps moms sort of breathe at the end of the day
[3:39]and doesn't wine breathe too. Maybe there's something related to that. It does. Yeah, it's been
[3:44]cooped up in a bottle for a long time. So it helps to actually aerate your wine. And the simplest way
[3:52]to do that is actually just supporting your glass in this world. And that helps quite a bit.
[3:57]Cool. Maybe it's like a mom taking a bath too, right? You just like, maybe that is.
[4:03]So yeah, there's some analogs there. I think I'll tell you say the right wines age while
[4:09]on, you know, I think probably great moms do too. Oh, I don't know about that. I might have to do
[4:15]it. But anyway, um, so you are a sommelier. So how did you end up being a sommelier? Like,
[4:22]what was your training? Did you always know you wanted to be one? Um, it's such a cool job.
[4:26]How did you end up with that? Because it becomes a sommelier. Yeah, I actually started out wanting
[4:31]to be a musician. And so I went to a music school and I realized I was not going to have a job in
[4:37]music very easily. So I do a major in art and design. And so worked as a graphic designer. And
[4:46]so my way into wine was more on the side. I really enjoyed tasting wine. It was lots of fun.
[4:53]And it was my dad who got me a wine subscription when I turned 21. This is when I was in art
[4:58]school. And I you have to imagine I was slumming it. Living in my studio. Where was this? What part
[5:09]of the world? This is oh, yeah, I was living in Valencia. I was going to California studio artists.
[5:13]Okay. And it's in it's in around LA. And you know, you kind of hang out. You just do art all day.
[5:21]you focus and you're so focused on things. So like, when these bottles came in, they were exotic
[5:26]and fancy. Like, they might not have been that expensive. Maybe $15 bottles of wine. But to me, $15,
[5:33]that's like a night out on the town. It's a big deal. So they were the and this is going to sound
[5:41]kind of weird, but they were the fanciest things I would put in my mouth for an entire month.
[5:46]So I sort of had this, I sort of put them on a pedestal a little bit. And then I tasted this
[5:53]wine wine that tasted like I'm wines. Everybody's describes the fruit flavors like ooh, blueberries
[5:59]or strawberries and vanilla. I tasted olives and it really threw me off. And then I became obsessed
[6:07]with the olive flavor. And I wanted to repeat the experience. I bought more of the wine. And little
[6:12]did I know the vintage had changed. And it was no longer the same thing. It was not the wine that I
[6:18]liked that I purchased because the vintage had changed. And so in that purchasing experience, I learned
[6:25]about vintage variation and I learned about the wines of France. All in one fell swoop. And that was
[6:32]that was my entryway into wine. And then later on in 2008, I lost my job. It was a market crash. And
[6:39]I had a condo and I was needing to pay the mortgage. So I picked up a job helping a guy. He had
[6:46]just opened a wine par. I was, I polished thousands of glasses at this point. But he let me taste
[6:54]and make friends with the distributor and used to blind taste man wines all the time. And I noticed
[6:58]I really had a knack for it. And I had so much passion for it. And I loved helping people pick
[7:04]out wines and pick out flavors. And so I just figured out how to put my design with the wine. And
[7:12]that's how I started winefalli.com. So cool. So winefalli that you started with Justin Hammack.
[7:22]What is the most popular wine plug in the world? How did that happen? What do you think makes it
[7:27]the most popular? What's your secret? Well, there's a technical answer would be
[7:34]a lot of really smart design and optimization for the internet would be the technical answer.
[7:41]But it truly comes back to people because people have to come back and choose the blog in order
[7:47]to think that it is the best. So that was my work and that was the content and to creating
[7:53]articles that actually help people learn and are maybe a little bit more pragmatic and answering
[8:01]the questions that people actually have. You know what some of these learn what I've learned in
[8:05]the process of starting this website is consumers have different questions. Like they want
[8:11]to know the best wine for a keto diet. Like it's all me doesn't necessarily know that they can work
[8:16]in the answer. But like that's the type of questions we get asked on the internet. It's the
[8:22]type of question that sort of would have asked the internet. So when I answer those questions,
[8:27]that's how. And I do it in a helpful way that it doesn't really make people feel bad about themselves
[8:32]in their choices because truly everyone has their own, we all have our own preferences. And
[8:38]that's sort of the MIT's palette is going to be different than yours. And that's fine. That's
[8:43]like, you know, the great thing about me is I'll do it just about anything. So we can work together
[8:48]a little bit of grand old time. Okay, come on over.
[8:51]All right, I'll be right there. Great. So you had this amazing website and you turned it into a
[8:58]New York Times bestseller, your first edition of Wine Folly. What was that process like for you?
[9:05]It was really hard. It was it was hard for many reasons. I never written a book before. I never
[9:13]written a multi page report in college. So they went to art school. So developing the design
[9:19]systems to create a 230 page book was a great deal of effort. And I was 100% determined to do
[9:27]it right and to do it well. And then right before the publication on husband's birthday, Justin
[9:37]has been his dad passed away. Oh, no. And and so we we had already sort of he instead of
[9:46]getting sick at the beginning of the year. And we did like post pawn things with the book. It was
[9:50]really hard to work on it. Well, this was all happening because it just didn't seem important.
[9:55]You know, his dad was really, really important in his life. And
[10:00]Um, so, you know, it was, when it all happened, like, I was, I was trying to hustle and
[10:07]get the book out there, but like, I was so deeply worried and concerned about my husband
[10:13]and his family and, and, and I was hurting too.
[10:17]I mean, his dad was a very magnanimous person in our lives.
[10:21]So it was like, it was a shock, it was, it was, it was, and it was actually the most
[10:27]interesting growing experience.
[10:29]You know, I was back on his dad and I had a very warm, happy feelings about him now,
[10:33]but then it was really a shock, but it was a growing up experience.
[10:38]It was like, okay, Madeleine, but all you big girl pants, you're going to do this thing
[10:43]because after that doesn't sort of stop working on the side and you didn't want to do
[10:46]it anymore.
[10:47]He sort of had this, like, a hog moment.
[10:49]It was almost like a midlife crisis in his thirties and he just, he said, I need to do
[10:55]it.
[10:56]I'm the best at and, and you seem to be doing, okay, you're going to either, you're
[11:00]going to either swim or sink and I got to let you swim or sink.
[11:04]So I'm running the site on my own now and it's doing pretty well, which is good.
[11:08]But in the last couple of years, I basically learned how to do it and so this next book
[11:13]was really me being like, okay, Madeleine, let's, let's do it for real.
[11:18]We learned from our first book and the first book is a great book for beginners because
[11:23]it's very welcoming and it's super fun and bright colors and, and, and, you know,
[11:29]a beginner who's even just 21 will get a lot out of it and enjoy it.
[11:35]But this book was more like, I've learned from my readers that they're smart that they
[11:40]may not know anything about wines, but they're smart people and they learn very quickly.
[11:45]And the way that I'm communicating with this visual design, this whole book is all visuals.
[11:51]They learn really, really fast.
[11:53]So they look at these pages and they just absorb it all really quickly.
[11:58]And so it's, it means it's working, that method of teaching is working really well.
[12:05]But so in this next book, I was like, well, what if I was trying to teach someone to
[12:09]become a sommelier, like, what are they wanting to know as much as a beginner song
[12:14]with the quarter masters or something like that?
[12:16]So I use that as sort of my, my lighthouse in the distance.
[12:21]Okay, does that, is that what a sommelier learns?
[12:25]And then I, and then I thought to myself, well, some of these, a lot of them can't,
[12:28]or anybody turning into snobs, how do I teach someone so that they not only know what
[12:34]a sommelier knows, but they're not too snobby about it, right?
[12:37]They're not too prideful.
[12:39]So the knowledge is free and welcoming and they feel like everyone should know it.
[12:44]And so that was the goal of this book is to get you some status without this sommel's
[12:49]sommel.
[12:50]I love it.
[12:51]That's awesome.
[12:52]Yeah.
[12:53]I just made that.
[12:54]That sounds kind of good.
[12:55]I like it.
[12:56]I think we're going to like, you know, trademark the, the slogan that, take it on the
[13:00]rib.
[13:01]Love it.
[13:02]Yeah.
[13:03]Well, I'm so sorry that your first book experience became sort of mired in that loss
[13:08]for you.
[13:09]That's awful.
[13:10]I'm really sorry.
[13:11]It's okay.
[13:12]It's okay.
[13:13]I know.
[13:14]And, you know, it happened and that, and I can look back on that whole experience and
[13:19]it's kind of nice that I have a piece of something that places it in time, you know.
[13:25]Yep.
[13:26]So what did your husband actually want to do instead?
[13:29]Just out of curiosity.
[13:30]Well, he just started getting interested in, he's, he's like the boy of the internet.
[13:36]He's always been really deeply interested in future technology, where the internet's
[13:41]going and all that sort of stuff.
[13:43]So he started really getting into the future blockchain technology and trying to understand
[13:50]how it works and how it's going to be implemented.
[13:52]So like, yeah, everybody's investing in crypto currency now instead of, but how is it going
[13:57]to work?
[13:58]What's it going to do?
[13:59]Who's going to make these things that are, what is the future of the internet?
[14:03]How's it actually going to work and all that stuff?
[14:06]So he's really into that now.
[14:08]And I support him fully and he's awesome because I like the, that he's the boy of the internet
[14:13]because he was there when it started and he's there, you know, he's there, you know, in
[14:22]the next stage of where the internet is going.
[14:25]So I, I, I'm very happy for him, but still though he is my primary advisor and run
[14:32]everything by him, he's, he's kind of more of a strategic thinker and more of the
[14:38]person on the boat.
[14:39]The paddle's really hard.
[14:40]It does all the every day, you know, every day, every day, you know, and so I use him to bounce
[14:48]off the ideas and he usually finds flaws and a lot of my big crazy ideas, which I am now,
[14:56]you know, started to embrace and before I used to be very defined with them and now I'm
[15:01]like, no, that's a great, keep talking, don't stop talking, okay, and I write it all down
[15:06]and then I actually try to do a systematic plan and I execute on it.
[15:10]So it's, it's a different type of, he does a different type of thinking that I really
[15:14]appreciate and that's why he's not there on the boat.
[15:16]He didn't make the boat, but he helped create the strategy that ended up resulting in
[15:21]the book.
[15:22]So he gets off the ship on that.
[15:24]I don't care.
[15:25]Lucky guy.
[15:26]I can do it around.
[15:28]He can have that.
[15:29]It's really sweet.
[15:31]I know I always, I'm like, I love collaborating with my husband Kyle and things and I always
[15:36]wonder, like what you're saying, like, does it really work or does it add to attention?
[15:40]Does it create tension?
[15:41]Like, is it a robot?
[15:42]Oh, sorry.
[15:43]I don't know.
[15:44]Does it ever?
[15:45]I don't know.
[15:46]I don't know.
[15:47]Some, some has been wiped out as our, like, power team partners.
[15:50]I've always been a little bit competitive with my husband when we're not just being
[15:55]husband.
[15:56]Like when we're being husband and wife, we're super pals and supporting each other and
[16:00]that sort of things, but he's very smart and I'm very snarky, so sometimes.
[16:05]And so we do have a little bit of sort of manning up and it makes for a lot of fun adventures
[16:14]that him and I have together.
[16:16]But when you're trying to run a business together, it was nightmare.
[16:19]It was honestly, I was, I like to blame myself for it because I, you know, we can always
[16:27]be better.
[16:28]So I don't really want to blame him and his shortcomings because he said, he's got his own
[16:33]road to go on, you know.
[16:35]But yeah, I think I could have been a better, more open team member with him when I was
[16:41]working with him and not be so, you know, rigid in my goals and, and be more open to what
[16:50]he had to say.
[16:51]Now that he doesn't work for me, I treasure everything he tells me.
[16:55]So, so that's, so that was a good thing.
[16:58]And so now I had the experience of hiring employees and having people work for me.
[17:03]And that's, that's taught me quite a lot.
[17:05]And I'm glad that I had that opportunity, you know, before it was just him and I working
[17:10]on it together.
[17:11]And when he left, I was like, oh, well, I mean, I love, I mean, the sink or swim.
[17:17]You totally obviously did not sink your like, you know, doing a triathlon with wine at
[17:23]this point.
[17:25]But anyway, sometimes I guess it takes those moments to really see what you can do.
[17:30]And yeah, that's awesome that you learn that you sound super self aware.
[17:34]And sounds like you have a lot of the skills of having a really good marriage too, which
[17:38]is not about wine.
[17:39]But anyway, I like the taking responsibility.
[17:43]I think I have to take a paid debt of your book.
[17:45]But anyway, so back to wine for a second.
[17:49]So on your website, you have these awesome wine tasting placements where you can like
[17:53]record the wines you're tasting and all that stuff.
[17:56]Yeah.
[17:57]If I were to host a wine tasting party, which now these little placements have inspired
[18:00]me to want to do, what would you think I should do aside from ordering your awesome
[18:04]placements?
[18:05]Okay.
[18:06]Well, that's a great question because it sounds like a lot of fun.
[18:10]The best type of tasting to do is a comparative tasting.
[18:13]And you can have snacks and things there, but I would actually leave them off to the side
[18:19]and focus more on the wine for the first tasting because wine food, it kind of mussies
[18:25]it all up.
[18:26]And you really want to learn about tasting first, tasting wine first before you do.
[18:32]And it's also easier and cheaper, come on.
[18:34]We're just standing a few bottles and then you get us all together and then we taste.
[18:39]But when you learn how to actively taste, you're looking at essentially four different
[18:45]things.
[18:46]You're going to look at the wine.
[18:47]You're going to look at the color of the wine.
[18:48]You hold it over with the white place mat or whatever and you look at it and then you
[18:53]smell the wine and you try to pick out flavors in the smells.
[18:58]And then you taste the wine.
[19:00]And when you taste the wine, it's different than the smell and we talk a lot about the
[19:02]flavors, little blueberries and vanilla and both of all.
[19:06]But when you taste wine, it's more about the structure and we just keep going.
[19:09]What is structure?
[19:10]It's more about how it feels on your palate, like how it feels on your tongue and your
[19:14]mouth.
[19:15]So in order to really taste when you get to switch it around, get it all over the place
[19:20]on your mouth, on your palate.
[19:22]And then when you swallow, you pay attention from the moment you taste the wine, the moment
[19:28]you swallow and even after that, what's happening in your mouth?
[19:32]What is your mouth tingling?
[19:33]Is it really a stringent and dry?
[19:36]You have a drying sensation in your mouth.
[19:40]All of these things, these are the structure of wine.
[19:42]And that's actually the stuff that tells you the wine will age well, which is really
[19:48]cool.
[19:49]If you taste the wine, smells amazing and you taste it and it's kind of flat and simple on
[19:53]your palate and it doesn't have a lot of acid a year that is stringent tanned or anything
[19:58]like that, it might be.
[20:00]on age that well, truly. It tastes great now, it should be dark now, and you should
[20:05]enjoy it, and it's awesome. But maybe it won't age more than, you know, four to five years,
[20:11]max. And most times don't, surprisingly. Most times you buy in the grocery store,
[20:16]I'm not meant to age, all of them meant to turn now. But a few of them will, they'll go
[20:21]the while, and if you like a wine, and you like drinking it, the most fun to do, even
[20:28]it doesn't age well, is to age it for a period of time, like a couple of years, and to
[20:33]taste how it changes, and you'll learn a lot about wine, if you do that. But yeah, getting back to
[20:41]tasting, I was in comparative tasting. And how many, how many different wines am I ordering here?
[20:46]And should they be white in four? Four wines, white in red or just white or just red or what?
[20:52]Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What would I do? I think a lot of folks generally, like, I would,
[21:00]I would take an assessment of the group first before making that decision. Okay.
[21:03]If people tell you that you really like, they really like red wine or drink anything else,
[21:08]maybe we do a red wine tasting. And vice versa. If people were open, two by two would be really
[21:15]fun. Okay. And you could do something like, you get a decent, you really want to taste it,
[21:22]you do too, but I do, you want to taste the same grape. You want to taste maybe Sauvignon Blanc
[21:28]from New Zealand versus Sauvignon Blanc from France, or Sauvignon Blanc from Napa Valley versus
[21:35]Sauvignon Blanc from Chile or something like that. You want to taste the same grape right
[21:40]from a different region, because then you realize the grape tastes different from different
[21:45]regions, and you start to develop this repertoire of wines that you get to know. And I love
[21:52]to taste Sauvignon Blanc as one of the first wines that everyone tastes, because it really does
[21:56]communicate where it's from. And I also, for that same reason, I love to taste the raw or pink
[22:02]and war. You know, it's the raw from Australia versus the Sauvignon from France.
[22:08]We'll blow your mind, like it's not even the same thing, it's not even on the same plane,
[22:12]but when you taste them alongside each other, you realize what's similar about them,
[22:16]but it's not what you think. And it's more about how the taste profile, like we were talking about,
[22:22]that taste, taste part, how it hits your palate. And so you realize the raw can be many,
[22:28]many things, but when you taste those two wines next to each other. And then you'll learn also
[22:33]about cool climate versus warm climate. And so the reason I pick Napa Valley, which is
[22:38]coastal chitley or New Zealand versus France or things like that, is has a lot to do with
[22:43]the climate where it comes from. Hot climate wines have a totally different taste profile
[22:50]in cool climate wines. They tend to be bolder, they tend to be more fruit forward,
[22:56]they tend to have sort of dry fruit characteristics to them, whereas cool climate wines tend to be
[23:03]more tart, more like it's more like you grew up in a cool climate. And it's like, if it was
[23:08]tomato, it didn't get that sweet. Like it's from a cooler place. And if you do that, everyone
[23:15]in your group will suddenly pick which one they like more. They'll know deep down, they'll know
[23:20]which one they like more. And that's a clue to get it tells you what regions you should go hunting
[23:25]for wine. Like if you like hot climate wines, check out Spain or check out Southern Italy or check
[23:32]out more California or, you know, Australia. Like these are going to be your hot spots for wine,
[23:39]that's fine. So that would be, that would be the big tasting to do, because not only are you
[23:47]testing climates, comparing climates with one another, but you're also learning more about these
[23:52]individual varieties. And I picked Sonia Blanc in Saraj, Sonia Blanc, Pinot Noir,
[23:57]really gave examples, but they're other great grapes to do this with.
[24:00]A Chardonnay would be one, too. I love my favorite is Chardonnay from Napa Valley. That's my,
[24:07]that's my go-to, but maybe it's because I like warm weather myself, I don't know. Yeah,
[24:11]it could be, it could be, you might be a warm climate, my lover. And that's great. You know,
[24:17]what are you doing this time? For the longest time, that was my taste profile. And then my
[24:22]palette changed a little bit. And I like, I, you know, I drink everything into the sun. So I,
[24:28]I don't know if I really have like a specific, but I tend to buy a lot of white wines when I'm just
[24:36]okay, you can drink any that one after a long day. Right. So that's what I'm drinking these days,
[24:42]but who knows what I'll do next year. We'll see when, when I have this fictitious little dinner
[24:49]party, I'm thinking I'm doing with the wine tasting. Should I be giving everybody a taste,
[24:55]like I know I'll give them the placemats, but you have a whole section in your book about tasting
[24:58]notes and the importance of it. Should we be doing that as well? Yeah, you take notes,
[25:03]because everyone's gonna write some different down. And when you do it as a group,
[25:08]it can be hard for somebody who's slow to, to take notes, to develop their own thing. So it would
[25:15]be good if, if you started it and everyone wrote down their notes first before you talked about it.
[25:21]So you started it and there's quite a time when people write their notes and taste and you do that
[25:26]for like, you could spend time, you know, a little egg time or something like that. And you can
[25:31]write down your notes. And then you can talk together as a group. And that is the best thing to do,
[25:36]I think is to really take the time tasting yourself and then learn from other people in the group,
[25:44]because everyone will have something you need to add because they all taste differently. And so
[25:48]you'll learn sort of doubly fast with comparative tasting with friends. It's, it's really a great
[25:54]method. It works like champion. In fact, pretty much all master song A's have like really intensive
[26:00]tasting groups, which is, this is exactly what they do, but they do it with six lines instead of
[26:04]four. And they do three whites and three reds and they do them all blind. So they do them
[26:10]without knowing what they are and where they came from. And so their goals to figure out what they
[26:16]are and what they came from in the blind tasting. So next time you're in either New York City
[26:22]or LA, both of which I spent a lot of time in and you want to come to my house and help me run
[26:27]one of these dinner parties. That would be a lot of fun. Do you do that? Do you do that? Do you do that?
[26:32]Just I, I, um, I still do tastings and stuff, but right now I'm doing something on my website,
[26:39]so I haven't done it. I haven't been running around lately, but um, I love LA. Still
[26:44]live there. So awesome. We're pretty early. You spent time in the palisades. How about you? Oh,
[26:49]yeah. Wow, that's an awesome area. Um, I lived in Pasadena and, um, and in San
[26:56]demons. I lived there. I used to work in Pasadena. Yeah, gosh. Good old memories. I loved driving
[27:03]around that city. I loved driving around the city at night. That was my favorite thing to do.
[27:06]Totally. It just goes forever and ever and ever. Absolutely. Um, so aside from coming to my dinner
[27:13]party, what else do you have coming down the pike for you professionally? I like your job. Um,
[27:19]professionally, I am right now and actually it's really seen really soon in New York and in LA
[27:26]is the Psalm 3 film. And I'm actually a pretty big role in that film. Um, that was the documentary
[27:33]by Jason Wise. It's part of the Psalm series. If you see it, Psalm 1 is a crazy, crazy story about
[27:40]these guys that are trying to become master some liaison with they go through and actually take
[27:44]the test in the video. It's very, very stressful. And then some too, they sort of explore what
[27:50]is why and where it grows and sort of the magic of wine. And then Psalm 3, uh, he's really trying
[27:57]to do something with wine. Jason Wise is he wants to, um, Pinot Noir is now the, you know,
[28:04]for Psalms and people who are collect wine is now sort of considered the most important
[28:09]grape. And everybody looks to Bernie. So he creates, um, actually the Psalm Lea who was in the
[28:14]first, um, movie film puts together a tasting and to blind taste, to put Pinot Noir from around
[28:21]the world in order to challenge Bernie from its throne and some really big names in, uh, the wine
[28:34]world are included in this film. And I sort of narrate the whole thing. So it's really cool.
[28:38]That's so awesome. Oh my gosh. When did that come out? Um, well, it's a premiere already,
[28:44]but it's going to be out on iTunes. I think in November. Um, and so it's kind of
[28:49]soon. Perfect. Oh, I can't wait to watch it with a big thing of wine in front of me.
[28:55]Yeah. You definitely need a glass of Pinot Noir to watch this film.
[28:59]Done. Now I have my plans for November. Anyway, um, well, thank you so much for coming on
[29:05]moms. Don't have time to read books. And, uh, moms really don't have enough time to drink wine
[29:10]either. So this is a nice little, uh, um, you know, little tasting of, uh, of your, you know,
[29:18]immense knowledge and, and everything. So thank you so much for sharing it with me and, uh,
[29:23]and all the listeners. Thank you. All right. We'll take care of my life.
[29:27]Bye bye. This episode of moms don't have time to read books. This one's sponsored by
[29:32]namestreates, namestreates.com. You won't think of a crumb.