Mara Altman, Author of GROSS ANATOMY: DISPATCHES FROM THE FRONT (AND BACK)
[0:10]Welcome to mom's don't have time to read books, the podcast that features conversations with
[0:15]writers of all types. Today's episode of mom's don't have time to read books has been sponsored
[0:20]by Once Upon a Farm Organics, Once Upon a Farm Organics.com, organic, cold press blends for babies,
[0:26]kids, and toddlers. I am thrilled to be interviewing Mara Altman today. Today is the publication
[0:32]day of her book, Gross Anatomy to Spetches from the Front and Back. A former staff writer for
[0:38]The Village Voice, Mara has written for numerous publications, including The New York Times,
[0:42]Salon and New York Magazine, plus daily newspapers in India and Thailand. A graduate of Columbia
[0:48]University Graduate School of Journalism, Mara wrote her first book in 2009 called Thanks for
[0:53]Coming, which was translated into three languages. She has also penned eight best-selling Kindle
[0:58]signals. Mara lives in San Diego, California with her husband and young twins. Hi Mara. How are you?
[1:05]Hi. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. Thanks so much for doing this. Yeah, thanks for having me.
[1:12]And congratulations on your publication day. That's super exciting. Oh, thank you. Yeah.
[1:18]It looks like you're in Providence from your Instagram. Is that right? Yeah, I am. Yeah, you can follow me today.
[1:23]Have you been? It's amazing. I love your book. So funny. How did you even decide to write
[1:46]this book where you sort of do a deep dive into every female anatomical issue we could possibly have
[1:52]as women? It started with the body hair mustache in her situation. I was, you know, I wanted to tell
[2:06]my fiance before that Mary that I had chin hair because it was a thing with a hiding from him.
[2:11]You know, he, I would tear up my, I leave their cards and pluck them in the bathroom and
[2:17]always think that I just wanted to get off my chest. I didn't have to have a thing by finding out
[2:22]in the sunlight or something that I had chin hairs. And so I also had this moment where I was just like,
[2:26]you know, you can complete women. I feel like I have to get rid of a piece of myself.
[2:31]So I just did this whole investigation of like why? Why do we have these feelings about body hair?
[2:38]I finally ended up telling him about the chin hair. And of course, like after months of,
[2:42]you know, talking to all these, you know, anthropologists, evolutionary biologists,
[2:47]sort of talented, whatever, you know, he's just like, okay, it's just hair.
[2:53]You know, like it was no big deal in him. But when it came out, like it really spoke to
[2:59]this time of people and had a lot of emails and people felt that so much relief knowing that
[3:04]like they weren't alone in there. They're fear of their go-kays, stuff like that. And
[3:11]and so then I didn't realize that there were so many other parts of the body that felt exactly
[3:15]the thing that that I had, I had shamed around in order to other people did and felt like
[3:21]if I could find the context that that shamed developed and by looking at its history and
[3:27]like the science around it that maybe I could also kind of be stigmatized and make us all feel
[3:35]better. Oh, thank you on behalf of everyone. I mean, it was, it was really fantastic. How did
[3:44]you dig up all the experts? Like the guy with the mirror and the cement making town, he was hilarious.
[3:49]And one of your waxing ladies, he was like spitting out and showing you like how men might feel
[3:54]about your body. I mean, some of these people were just so funny and unique. How did you find everybody?
[3:59]I mean, some of them were like, oh, back there was just like getting wax like normal. That was
[4:04]recounting this story from life, you know, an unfortunate event where I was told that I was way
[4:10]too airy and that men don't like to get pews in their house. It's huge, very, um, yeah, she's like,
[4:20]but um, like the, you know, the scientists I talked to and professors, it was just, you know,
[4:26]doing research, reading all the people who work, um, reaching out, uh, being persuasive about how
[4:32]great it would be a chat about defecation, kind of oriented, you know, vacuum or fence. Awesome. Um,
[4:48]yeah. When you, when you talked about in the book, when you talked about laser hair removal,
[4:52]you, you said something funny, which is that you, you won't pay 10 bucks for a sandwich,
[4:57]you say like six dollars your top price for a sandwich, but you could rationalize spending thousands
[5:01]of dollars for someone to fry your face. Can you talk about why you think that is?
[5:07]Oh my gosh. I was just so, you know, desperate to, to feel better and not feel hairy and it
[5:15]actually make no, you know, logical sense whatsoever. Um, but I, I also go back to like the,
[5:23]the fact that I, I grew up also all the researchers, there's this woman back at her,
[5:27]who wrote a paper, she's the professor of AIDS college about the North American
[5:32]sorority meetings and these were women who knew that x-ray was bad and this is what they used
[5:41]for hair removal in like the early 1900s and they would go for loss of hair removal and go get
[5:51]anyway. It just, they were so desperate to be hair, that they were doing the, you know, risk,
[5:57]leading. So I think I was in that group. So you did, you did a so much research and spent a lot of
[6:14]time thinking about all these issues. Where do you come out on the social subject? Like, why do you
[6:18]think, um, is it a cultural thing? Is it just evolutionary? What is it that you think makes
[6:25]their be so much shame around body hair? And do you feel like now you've sort of accepted and
[6:31]moved on with it now that you've analyzed it so um? I think it's really hard to find out exactly
[6:40]where it came from because while there's been advertisers that have really, you know, done a job
[6:47]on, on a side of that horrible we are for Harry, there was also ancient great enrollment in
[6:53]their move hair. Um, and you know, I talked to the evolutionary theorist there and the policy said
[7:01]that, um, immunology said that women are more attractive sometimes to the men when they were
[7:07]younger and like removing your mustache, your chin hair makes you look younger because you're
[7:12]not looking at, you know, kind of a menopausal look, she said that's how it comes to ash and I was,
[7:17]like, oh, thank you. Great. Um, but yeah, for me, just investigating and also finding out that
[7:26]so many other women just felt the same way, um, made me feel a ton better and just putting
[7:31]out there too, you know, I, I don't have the shame anxiety and not hiding anymore. I think those
[7:40]feelings, um, really seeing a lot of energy. So I do the same things. I, I still like trim my,
[7:48]my chin hairs and I, I, I, I gave my legs but it's with a different feeling behind the practice.
[7:56]Yep. If you know what I mean, totally.
[7:59]But you're out of the status. Yeah, and so I want to bring that myself to the world and I don't
[8:04]feel like I'm hiding the big secret. I'm not afraid to be in sunlight, you know, moving like,
[8:09]oh my god, she's a, she's a really woman. She got a chin hair. What is that? You know,
[8:15]that isn't fit into our, you know, yeah. So for me, like having a chin hair, when I first discovered
[8:21]it and didn't realize it was such a, you know, that some women had it, I felt kind of like,
[8:26]I didn't even know I could be a woman and have a chin hair. I was just so,
[8:31]so followed by it. So like you did such a good job of having us like in the room with you as you go
[8:36]through this. You know what I mean? Like, you're all your emotions and how you felt and how
[8:41]you just so loaded a particular hair on your body could be. It's really, uh, I don't know. I really,
[8:46]it was just such a moving, it was moving and funny at the same time. Thank you so much.
[8:50]And I would say also, it's not that you're not hiding, but you rode topless on a bike ride,
[8:58]you went to a nudist colony with your mom, which is the funniest chapter ever. Um, so I feel like
[9:04]you're overcompensating now. You're like, look at me, watch out. Yeah, I mean, it's also great
[9:12]to explore these things. Um, having the excuse of a book on the day, if you have a lot of kind of
[9:19]permission to be all crazy. So I think I am very comfortable now, but it's also like, I'm investigating,
[9:26]not when I'm getting the coloration of my eating book test. Yeah. So, so yeah, they go hand in hand.
[9:34]And I'm doing for when we kind of have duking, for when we come in so that we know about what
[9:40]that sense to you for us. It's a, it's a, it's a mitzvah. So yeah. Um, you, um, you were, you also had
[9:49]this really funny chapter about, um, about life in the beginning, like one of the funniest chapters,
[9:54]I think, called some nits picks. Um, when you were contracted life from your brother-in-law's
[10:00]And you set the scene at a restaurant by saying the place was lit and that wonderful
[10:04]New York way where you can barely make out who was sitting next to you.
[10:07]I get mistaken Pilates ball decorated with a beard and curly hair for my husband.
[10:11]I would never know, I thought that was so funny.
[10:14]Anyway, I would love to love that.
[10:15]Then you go on to talk about your feelings about having kids, which you had a lot of
[10:19]ambivalence about.
[10:20]And you said, I do not often interact with kids, they scare me because they'll look
[10:24]at you and say things like, why is your nose crooked or they will smile, stare straight
[10:29]into your soul and then say something creepy like, you're going to be dead.
[10:32]Sorry, I think it's true, but it's so true.
[10:36]You just never know what you're going to get.
[10:39]And now you have twins who are about a one-year-old, is that right?
[10:43]Yeah.
[10:44]Yeah.
[10:45]And so we're not talking and saying creepy things yet.
[10:47]Not yet.
[10:48]Not yet.
[10:49]Um, and it's actually, yeah, I was really ambivalent about having kids and it turns out
[10:56]in a room like it.
[10:57]But I have very long expectations about it.
[11:00]So I think that's how I work in my favor.
[11:02]I think that's like the key to everything in life, right?
[11:05]Just like little expectations.
[11:07]Yeah.
[11:08]Uh, so you have low expectations about having kids.
[11:10]So how has it exceeded those low expectations?
[11:13]In every way, because they were just so low.
[11:18]I am.
[11:19]You know, but they're also just so great.
[11:23]I mean, I, you know, the twin thing was a real, it threw me for a loop, because I,
[11:29]we were like, you know, I was, I was 34, almost 35 when I got pregnant and it was kind
[11:35]of that like, well, now remember, you know, I guess we want, you know, see what this is
[11:40]like, okay.
[11:41]And then, um, and then seven weeks of being pregnant, uh, I was blood a lot and I'm like,
[11:48]oh, there it went, miscarriage, you know, um, and I was sad, um, which was surprising
[11:53]to do it.
[11:54]I was like, oh, I guess I did want to have another kind of informative, um, but then I
[11:58]went to the hospital because they were like, oh, I need to make sure it's not on the top
[12:01]bank.
[12:07]I was like, what?
[12:08]And then I said, I heard that, I heard that sometimes one can eat the other in a loom
[12:14]or it gets absorbed, is that true?
[12:18]And they were like, uh-oh, she probably needs some counseling.
[12:23]It was just, it was just those scary, I think it was going to like, just, you know, two babies
[12:27]in there.
[12:28]But after I, I got with the program, um, I got excited and I felt like super calm and I
[12:35]had never looked during the pregnancy after I got over the whole, man, they knew it
[12:38]weren't saying, um, I just really got home in a way that I had before and called about
[12:45]my work, called about my, and they were writing a lot of anxiety about it, oh, and it was,
[12:53]it was kind of stuck, this, uh, new mood, and that's been really nice.
[12:58]And then the babies themselves, like, it's cool to see your body do such crazy stuff.
[13:03]And then they're actually really great people.
[13:05]I like being around them, they're cute, not mind changing the diapers, it, it's kind
[13:12]of crazy.
[13:13]I'm like, I like, I like you.
[13:14]Oh, that's, well, that's convenient.
[13:16]And yeah, see you, it's funny.
[13:20]I feel like now you have to write another book on like what it's like before and after
[13:24]you have kids for your body and like all the crazy stuff that goes into having children,
[13:28]especially having twins.
[13:29]And how likely do you think I have, I have, I have twins too, so I, I can relate, they're
[13:36]like, I do, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're 11 now, but I'm, I'm still recovering.
[13:43]Yeah, that like, uh, it's crazy.
[13:47]I mean, I also have two other kids who are, who are younger, but they're 17 months apart
[13:52]and people used to say to me, you know, oh, you know, my kids are really close in age.
[13:56]It's, it's, I think it's harder, you know, because I have to juggle two different
[13:58]schedules and I was thinking, oh, wait, like, they're, it is hard having twins.
[14:03]I mean, not to minimize anyone experience, anyone's experience.
[14:06]It's all hard parenting is hard and rewarding and amazing, but, but hard, but twins.
[14:11]It's just like never ends, you know, like the competition and the, the, dealing with
[14:16]everything for the first time like in surround sound basically.
[14:20]So anyway, if you ever need any sort of advice going down the, down the paths and some,
[14:26]you know, a decade ahead of you, thank you, and you have a podcast and four kids, yeah,
[14:32]right.
[14:33]Well, I'm divorced and remarried, so I have some time off to get anything done.
[14:38]Otherwise, I would get nothing done.
[14:40]So that's, uh, anyway, um, enough about me.
[14:45]Uh, so when you were checking your head for a life, supposedly during that scene, you wrote
[14:49]something else, which is during that time, I got so invested in looking for life that
[14:53]I forgot about my usual tear of tumors.
[14:56]In some ways, it was kind of nice to mix up my concerns.
[14:58]Tumor hunting gets very one note after a while.
[15:00]So I'm totally with you on this.
[15:02]I'm like, always convinced that like any little thing is a tumor on like, you know, everything
[15:06]is just the biggest thing.
[15:07]Um, what do you think that is?
[15:09]Like why do we do this?
[15:10]Is it just generalized anxiety or society?
[15:12]What do you think?
[15:14]I mean, I think it probably really depends on the person, and it's probably, you know,
[15:19]um, something that a therapist could help diagnose the best, but any for me, for me,
[15:27]uh, where I put my stress, so like the more stress I am, that is, you know, the run
[15:33]up to this book tour, and the book coming out somehow everything started being a tumor.
[15:39]I had a cold tour, I got sick right before, and I'm like, my husband, I don't know.
[15:44]I don't know.
[15:45]I think this is the tumor for sure this time, and he was like, um, that's a cold
[15:50]floor.
[15:51]Yeah, so I think it's, I think it's a channel for me for stress.
[15:57]Um, it's a way, uh, I think control it in some way, um, but very, it's, it's another
[16:15]kind of stress.
[16:16]Yeah, and you're stressing this thing, and you're like, stress about, about that thing.
[16:19]Right.
[16:20]But then, you know, maybe then you can go to the doctor and be like, why is this just
[16:24]in my dying?
[16:25]You know, I think the colds are not okay, but they just release your stress for you.
[16:28]Yeah, maybe it's, uh, taking something that you can't control and putting this stress
[16:34]on something that you can't do something about versus what you have.
[16:38]I don't know.
[16:39]I like that.
[16:40]Yeah.
[16:41]Me too.
[16:42]Yeah.
[16:43]Glad I majored in psychology, decades and decades ago.
[16:45]Yeah.
[16:46]I'm kidding.
[16:47]Um, so how do you feel about the book coming out?
[16:51]Obviously, some sort of stress with the cold, certain everything, but are you excited?
[16:55]Are you, are you, I do have any worries?
[16:57]Is there anyone out there like an old teacher or somebody that you're like, oh my gosh,
[17:00]I can't believe this person might be reading my innermost thoughts on this?
[17:03]Um, I'm really excited.
[17:06]I mean, the, you know, stressfulness is, I think, mostly like to be honest in our views
[17:12]and stuff like a little nervous before something like that right now, you need to learn
[17:16]comfortable.
[17:17]Um, this is like right through, and I would love people to read and that's why I wrote
[17:24]it.
[17:27]I want to, you know, share this research and, and the things I learned and I think my fear
[17:32]more comes from like nobody reading it, so yeah, I'm feeling, I'm feeling very good
[17:40]and really excited about, um, but I have like seven readings coming up all consecutive
[17:45]every day.
[17:46]Oh my gosh.
[17:47]Um, yeah, it's like, you know, you're reading me wait for a year, basically, after you finish
[17:53]it.
[17:54]I, I turned into my book like the day before I had my session, and the babies are a year
[17:59]old now, you know, so it's in the process.
[18:04]Um, how long do you think I did that, like, it's back and happening?
[18:09]So how, how long did it take you to write the book and then after you wrote it, how, like,
[18:14]what happened after that in the, in the intervening year?
[18:16]Um, it's just about a year and three quarters to write and that includes about three months
[18:24]right in that thing when I was throwing up a lot and, um, and during the year it's in the
[18:31]really cool year because I found a perfect time to have newborn friends, you know, I turned
[18:36]in and I basically been with the babies and, um, preparing for this just by writing essays
[18:44]and I'm doing interviews and stuff like that.
[18:49]It's awesome.
[18:50]Yeah.
[18:51]Uh, so what, um, what do you want to happen next?
[18:55]Do you want to write more?
[18:56]Do you want to write more about your body when I take it in a whole new direction?
[19:00]Your essay, by the way, um, about your dog was so funny.
[19:04]I forgot to write down the exact title of the essay, but the, the piece and then your
[19:07]three times about, which I actually told my kids about yesterday, I said, you know, the
[19:11]writer that I'm, I'm talking to you tomorrow when she had a dog, the dog pooped once in
[19:16]the, in the, in the bathtub and they decided, you know what, let's just keep the dog
[19:19]pooping in the bathtub.
[19:20]And so my, my daughter is five is like, well, what happens when her kids want to take
[19:24]a bath?
[19:25]And I was like, well, she, her kid, she didn't have kids when she had the dog for the
[19:28]first time, but now she does.
[19:30]So they wanted me to ask you if, uh, what happens is the dog's still poop in the tub
[19:34]and how do you bathe your babies?
[19:37]Good question.
[19:38]Um, yeah, I think we call it puppy as a starter kid.
[19:42]Yes.
[19:43]And, um, it was kind of about how I went our dog by not trying to get around because it's
[19:50]everything she did was so cute, so we, like when I was in bed and, you know, yeah, it didn't
[19:56]not fit, but when she, when she went to the bathroom in the tub, we were like,
[20:00]Oh, she's a genius, she wants to go on porcelain too, she gets it.
[20:05]So we have done a little bit of a better job as of late.
[20:12]We just moved houses, so we're trying to set new rules and hoping that in any place it's
[20:20]six.
[20:21]But yeah, you know, if any accident happens, we clean it before our babies came back.
[20:28]You put a daughter, but they are not taking back in my dog's bed.
[20:34]Great, so feeling much better.
[20:39]Yeah.
[20:40]I had a puppy a year before.
[20:42]I had my twins too.
[20:43]I feel like we had like so many similarities.
[20:45]I'm like not even going to them all.
[20:48]And then like my dog, I had a bulldog who I trained so badly.
[20:52]Like, I mean, she wouldn't even walk.
[20:54]I had to get a stroller and push her down the street.
[20:56]And then I started worrying like, oh my gosh, am I going to ruin my kids too?
[21:00]Like, is this the best I have to offer in my, you know, parenting?
[21:05]So, no, I was just going to say like you, I feel like once the kids came, it was much more natural for me to like interact with them than it was really interact with my puppy.
[21:15]Like somehow it just, you know, keeping them in a crib was much easier for me than, you know, keeping my dog in a crate.
[21:21]I don't know.
[21:23]Yes, we are doing it.
[21:24]And it's very inspiring too, because I can't live a life where I have like three beings that are like this.
[21:30]Totally.
[21:31]Don't handle one other animal in the bed.
[21:34]I think it's going to be a good track.
[21:40]Even though it's a little bad for my dog that she didn't.
[21:45]She gets crazy and she needs a lot of human contact.
[21:48]But we give it to her because we love that doggy.
[21:50]Our firstborn.
[21:54]You also talk a lot in the book about your relationship with your mom, which was also just so great and so relatable.
[22:00]And I feel like your last chapter at the, at the new discology, which I mentioned already just speaks to her willingness to sort of do what she's like up for anything.
[22:09]And I see you guys like posing in pictures together and you're so cute.
[22:13]What is this book done for your relationship with her?
[22:16]It's been so sweet.
[22:19]You know, she's, I tell her.
[22:21]Oh, so my face on me, thanks.
[22:23]They all turn to my mouth at once.
[22:26]But she would reover a lot of the chapters first before I gave him to my editor.
[22:32]And so that was a really close, you know, thing to do.
[22:36]And she'd comment and she'd put my worst crit.
[22:42]So that's kind of, you know, I can get mad too.
[22:45]But it's always been a really good insight.
[22:47]She's actually in the room with me right now.
[22:50]She's a painter.
[22:54]And she's sketching me on those.
[22:57]It's very cute.
[22:59]And she was also very informative to see where she really had her relations as well from her reporting.
[23:07]Like a chapter about, um, face it.
[23:11]Where like, how do you find, what do you choose and look like?
[23:15]Can you pinpoint your actual face?
[23:18]And, you know, there's just something right now with the film, too.
[23:21]You're like, you take 20 selfies.
[23:23]You know, which one's me?
[23:24]And you go, I think the hottest one is me.
[23:26]But then what about the other one?
[23:27]But they're not used.
[23:28]And like, you know, when someone shows you a picture of you,
[23:31]it's the picture of you and totally captured you.
[23:35]And then it was only God.
[23:37]Please tell me, I don't want to look like that.
[23:39]You know?
[23:40]So this is trying to figure out that she, she said that was a very, like,
[23:43]we're breathing chapter for her as well as a PMS chapter,
[23:47]um, about how he kind of might tend to speak or our emotions into, um,
[23:54]you know, PMS.
[23:56]And it kind of made her reflect back on her,
[24:00]on her own experiences of PMS.
[24:02]But that's kind of a different.
[24:05]But so that's been really cool to kind of see, like, what,
[24:08]what subject matter captured her attention.
[24:10]And then, um, just to get to share the journey to it,
[24:13]so to go to the, um, news,
[24:15]to resort with her.
[24:17]And I also during this time because I had the pregnancy
[24:21]and I was living in New York.
[24:22]And so I moved out to California where she is in San Diego.
[24:25]And now she's on the freaking book tour with me.
[24:28]And, yeah, it's so fun.
[24:31]And it's so unlucky.
[24:32]I love how you, um, you started the book off with, um, sort of your body
[24:37]and your thoughts on your body were almost a reaction to her.
[24:40]And her, um, you know, that hippies, like, being a hippie wasn't hippie enough
[24:44]for her, kind of the lack of shaving and the hair hair and how that really,
[24:48]you know, started you off on this, um, you know, exploration of yourself.
[24:53]And then you, by the end of the book, you point out to her how, you know,
[24:57]if you're so self-accepting, then why do you bleach your mustache?
[25:00]Like, what's that about mom?
[25:01]And I feel like you put her on the spot
[25:03]and made her really have to think about it as well.
[25:06]Yeah, definitely.
[25:08]She had a kind of revelation to herself that, you know,
[25:11]she also wants to present herself in the way that feels so good.
[25:16]You know, and that meant having hairy legs in your armpits,
[25:21]but bleaching her mustache, which we also find out in the chapter
[25:25]that it doesn't make the mustache invisible.
[25:28]It makes it born.
[25:29]Right.
[25:30]I felt like that was such a movie scene that was seen with you
[25:34]in the guy in the Mexican restaurant, like the waiter leaning down and looking at you.
[25:38]I mean, that was, it's just, like, no visual.
[25:41]It's so awesome that we, right.
[25:43]I'm, like, watching it on the movie in my head.
[25:46]I don't think.
[25:47]Yeah, that was a, that was a little moment in my eyes,
[25:51]but it was just hotter.
[25:54]It's all material.
[25:55]Isn't it who wrote that?
[25:56]Is it Nora Efran or something?
[25:57]Is it like everything is copy?
[25:59]It's all.
[26:00]Yeah.
[26:01]No, but I think it is.
[26:02]I think it was her.
[26:04]Well, those are really all my questions, but I'm so excited to have
[26:09]talked to you today, and I'm so reading for you with your,
[26:12]with the success of this book.
[26:14]Now, I feel like it's going to be insulting them.
[26:16]I give it to someone.
[26:17]Like, they're going to think they may be like,
[26:19]I think they're really hairy or they have, like,
[26:22]probably like, if I feel like it's like, do you know what I mean?
[26:25]It's here.
[26:26]You need this.
[26:27]I think it can be in the spirit of like,
[26:29]no, I'm kidding.
[26:30]I'm kidding.
[26:31]I'm kidding.
[26:32]Like, it's not.
[26:33]Everyone is.
[26:34]You know, that's kind of thing.
[26:37]It's like, this is all the things we hide, but we are.
[26:40]We're all doing it behind closed doors, so people don't
[26:46]realize that everyone's the same.
[26:49]Yeah.
[26:50]So anyone out there who I give this book to,
[26:51]it's nothing personal.
[26:52]I'm going to give it to lots of people.
[26:55]Awesome.
[26:56]Oh, that.
[26:57]Thank you.
[26:58]Thank you for taking interest in the book.
[26:59]Oh, of course.
[27:00]We've got luck.
[27:01]And I came and first said on the twin stuff,
[27:03]if you knew anything.
[27:04]Oh, I really, it's cool.
[27:06]That's why we got it.
[27:07]Okay.
[27:08]All right.
[27:09]Well, thanks so much.
[27:10]Thank you.
[27:11]All right.
[27:12]Take care.
[27:13]Thank you.
[27:14]Bye bye.
[27:15]Thanks for listening to Mom.
[27:16]So I have time to read books.
[27:17]This episode was sponsored by Once Upon a Farm Organics.