Rev. Lydia Sohn, Author of "What Do 90-Somethings Regret Most?"
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[1:00]I'm thrilled to be here today with the Reverend Lydia Son.
[1:04]Lydia Son is a minister, writer, and teacher, but if she says in one of her articles,
[1:09]she's, quote, not that kind of minister, a graduate of scripts in the Yale Divinity School.
[1:14]She is currently a minister at St. Mark's United Methodist Church in San Diego.
[1:19]For fun, she loves watching the bachelor, going to or hosting dinner parties, and writing
[1:24]in cute coffee shops, but mostly goes to them for the pastries.
[1:27]So welcome, Lydia.
[1:29]Thank you.
[1:30]So welcome to be here.
[1:33]So I read Lydia's article on Medium.
[1:36]It was the featured article in my newsletter one day, last week or the week before.
[1:43]And the title, what 90 somethings regret most really stopped me on my tracks, and I couldn't
[1:49]wait to read the article.
[1:50]And then afterwards, I reached out to Lydia, and so here we are, so Lydia, tell me a
[1:56]a little about your background.
[1:59]Where did you grow up?
[2:00]How did you end up becoming a minister?
[2:01]How did you get to this place?
[2:03]And then we'll delve into the article.
[2:05]Sure.
[2:06]Yeah.
[2:07]So I was raised in a Christian family, so faith and Christianity was always part of my life
[2:17]and upbringing.
[2:20]But the thought of a minister never really occurred to me because I always saw ministers
[2:29]as older, boring men, and I never saw myself like that.
[2:35]I was supposed to very few female ministers in my younger childhood.
[2:42]So that was just never a possibility for me.
[2:45]Until college, I decided to major in religion because I've always loved talking about
[2:51]these deeper religious and spiritual and philosophical questions.
[2:57]And I saw a scholarship application for any students who were interested in studying religion
[3:04]in graduate school and what did this scholarship?
[3:09]It says something like, and being a leader in your church.
[3:15]And I just saw the scholarship sign and I thought, oh, extra money for school, so I'll
[3:21]definitely apply.
[3:23]And little did I know that it was a program to nurture younger people to go into the
[3:30]ministry, to encourage them to go into the ministry.
[3:33]And so I was accepted for this fellowship and they flew all of the fellows out to
[3:42]Candler School Theology, which is a United Methodist family in Georgia, which is attached
[3:47]to every university.
[3:50]And there I met for the first time female ministers, progressive ministers, just a whole
[3:56]new set of people whose characteristics are really identified with, doing this location.
[4:04]And that's when it first occurred to me, okay, I can actually see myself doing this for
[4:09]the rest of my life because I have a set of skills to interest that really align with
[4:15]this profession.
[4:16]Like what skills and interests align particularly well, obviously an interest in spirituality
[4:22]and religion, but for someone else wondering the halls of their university, what do you
[4:26]think would be great minister?
[4:30]I think a passion for making the world a better place for connecting with other people
[4:39]at really deep heart-heart levels, helping people to become the best version of themselves.
[4:46]I love writing sermons and creating these weekly 10-minute, thought pieces for people
[4:58]to reflect upon for their weeks.
[5:01]I love teaching about these sacred texts and delving into them further with congregants.
[5:08]So it's like a whole, we always say that the ministry is much more about breath rather
[5:13]than a death, but we have to have a whole set of skills, like teaching and research, preaching,
[5:22]pastoral care and inter-relational skills, and I have all of those and all of those things
[5:29]make me really happy to do.
[5:31]That's awesome.
[5:32]I wonder if they're been assigned to them.
[5:34]I wonder if they're going to sign up for some random other profession, like psychology
[5:38]if you would have ended up being a psychologist.
[5:40]Yeah.
[5:41]Yeah.
[5:42]Right?
[5:43]It's like how life works just timing and things that take you in a different direction.
[5:46]Yeah.
[5:47]There were a lot of things that I consider doing else in my life, even when I was in
[5:52]seminary.
[5:53]I had like resisted this path a lot in my life, so I definitely considered psychology.
[6:00]Definitely considered academia and all of those related fields for sure.
[6:07]All your choice seems to have paid off at least in many respects that I can see from
[6:14]my limited, you know, vantage point here.
[6:17]I really want to talk to you about this essay that you wrote.
[6:20]What 90 something has regret most.
[6:23]So in the essay you talk about how you interviewed your elderly congregants many in their
[6:28]90s about their most personal feelings from sex to marriage to death and dying.
[6:34]And I want to, I just want to hear how did you come up with this idea for the study?
[6:40]Sure.
[6:41]I, so I interact with people who are much older than me a lot ever since I enter into
[6:49]full-time industry.
[6:51]And one thing that I started to know it in relating with them and becoming friends with
[6:55]them is that they were very similar to me in a way that I did not expect that we would
[7:03]laugh at similar jokes.
[7:04]We would talk about what we did on the weekends and enjoy similar TV shows and the
[7:09]movies and just connect at these levels in a way that I would connect with my other peers
[7:15]that I did it, they thought I could ever connect with people much older than me.
[7:19]Part of that I think is because other Korean persons like in Korean culture is very
[7:24]hierarchical.
[7:26]There's this idea that I can't relate to people who are older than me or younger than
[7:32]me because there's this very hierarchical way of interacting with people in those different
[7:39]demographics.
[7:41]So this assumption of mine that I wouldn't be able to connect with them was completely
[7:49]broken during my time in history with all of these people who are so much older than me.
[7:55]And then it just was a kernel of an idea that kind of became bigger as I had these conversations
[8:05]and then all of my questions for them would come out into these greater conversations
[8:10]about their lives and what they have regretted and what they have loved so far and what
[8:17]they're looking forward to and that's when I decided I wanted to actually put this
[8:23]it all together into an essay.
[8:25]That's great.
[8:26]I'm just going to read part of what you said.
[8:29]I have a lot of sections that I'm super interesting but let me start with this one.
[8:33]You wrote most of their regrets, I guess you asked them what they regretted the most and
[8:36]what they were the happiest, what times in their lives were the happiest.
[8:40]So you said most of their regrets revolved around their family and how they wish relationships
[8:44]usually either with their children or between their children turned out differently.
[8:49]These relational fractures I could see on their faces still caused them much pain and sorrow.
[8:54]One of my interviews has two children who have not seen or spoken to one another for over
[8:58]two decades.
[8:59]She lamented that this among all the mistakes and regrets she could bring to mind was a singular
[9:03]thing that kept her up at night.
[9:06]Were you surprised to hear that about the regrets?
[9:09]Yeah, I was.
[9:11]Like what I would think, you know, they would, I mean, sometimes I feel like relationships
[9:16]between kids, sometimes feel out of my control a little bit and when you look back on
[9:22]a whole life, you know, I'm not sure what I would expect, what I would expect a room of
[9:26]nine-year-olds to say or what I would think that I would say when I was 90, what were
[9:30]you expecting?
[9:31]I think I was expecting something really hard to say.
[9:45]I knew this about this person's life because I had heard her mention it before but she's
[9:53]mentioned a lot of things about her life before so I wasn't expecting this to be the
[9:59]one thing.
[10:00]she would share when I asked this question about regrets, which just went to show me that
[10:07]of all the things that could come to mind in her life in regards to her career, her romantic
[10:14]partner, and where she's living, and all the things that she's accomplished, that this was
[10:21]the most important thing to her. I don't know. I think I'm just like you and that I also would
[10:29]think that the relationship between my children would be beyond my control. So it was just
[10:35]interesting to me, and also something that I wouldn't expect my philosophy in the same way.
[10:42]So then you moved on to the happiest times of their lives, and this is the part that really
[10:47]has resonated with me the most and that I kind of haven't stopped thinking about
[10:51]through the ins and outs of my stressful daily life with the kids. You said I then moved on to the
[10:56]topic of the happiest times of their lives. Every single one of these 90-something-year-olds,
[11:01]all of whom are widowed, recall to time when their spouses were still alive, and when their
[11:05]children were younger and living at home. As a busy young mom and working professional who frequently
[11:10]fantasizes about the far away imagined pleasures of retirement, I quickly responded, but weren't
[11:15]those the most stressful times of your life, to which they all agreed. There was no hesitation
[11:20]doubt that those days were also the happiest. It makes me so sad. I mean, I'm like deep in the
[11:27]trenches myself as I know you are with your baby. I feel like there's this pressure that to enjoy
[11:36]every minute, but the in and outs of the days are tricky, but then you realize, I don't know,
[11:41]is this the happiest my life is going to get? And how did you feel when you heard this?
[11:45]Yeah, no, I feel the same exact way as a busy mom, and like I said in my teeth, I frequently
[11:52]fantasize about when you older get more time to myself or when you even out of the house. So for
[12:00]them to say that to me was a big reality check. I think it just goes to what a lot of philosophers
[12:12]pages have mentioned throughout their works all of time, which is that human beings are either
[12:19]focused on the future or we're always looking back on the path, but rarely do we treasure value
[12:26]the present moment. And oftentimes when we think about our lives, the most the happiest moment
[12:33]are the time when we're with people that we love. So it does make sense that this would be the
[12:38]to this question of the happiest time in their life, but certainly like you're saying, in the moment,
[12:46]it feels very exhausting and tiresome. And I don't mean to complain. It's also amazing, right?
[12:52]Like, but yeah, it just can be tricky. It can be hard. It is. I'm actually, so I'm doing a podcast
[13:00]interview later this month with the former editor and writer from the mother load blog of the
[13:06]New York Times, who has written for many other places, her name is KJ Del Antonea. And she just
[13:10]sort of looked like, how do we have your parents? And I was thinking about the whole time. I've
[13:14]only read the first like two chapters. I was like, I have to get this to Lydia's son right away
[13:19]because she basically is saying, you know, we're all in it, right? We're in it. It's not always
[13:24]fun. And there are all these obstacles to the fun, but this is like the life we chose, right? We
[13:29]had decided to have that. We want this. And it's frankly going to be the bulk of our lives is having
[13:35]kids at home. So we've got to find a way for ourselves to be happier parents. And she gives like
[13:40]very specific tips. So anyway, just a preview of that to come. And I'm as soon as the book comes out,
[13:45]I'm going to send you a copy because anyway, I think it's good to have to read that. Yeah, I feel
[13:49]like everybody should should be reading this because like it's just a little things. You know, even
[13:54]since I read her 10 mantras yesterday, like little ways, like to make yourself just a little bit happier
[14:01]each day, right? Like helping your kids get a little more independent or not for your
[14:05]your son is still too young. But you know, there there are, we don't, we don't, we haven't chosen
[14:11]this as a path of misery, right? We're very blessed. It's hard to, anyway, I'm rambling. But
[14:16]anyway, I think you know what I mean. I do. And something, something that I do, one little thing
[14:22]thing that I do that helps me a lot is when I am spending time with him and I'd rather be
[14:29]doing other stuff or spending time by myself or working on stuff or work or being with my husband,
[14:36]I asked myself what will I miss about this moment when I'm older? What will I miss about this
[14:44]time of my life when it's all gone? And so all of a sudden that question helps me to
[14:52]resenter myself and bring me back to the treasure in this very unique particular moment in time.
[15:00]And then all of it becomes wonderful again. I mean, not easy, but wonderful. You know what I mean?
[15:06]Yeah. Yeah. So you also found, just for two years, a little bit, the interviewees thoughts
[15:19]yeah, beauty and aging, which I also thought was super interesting. You wrote my interviewees
[15:24]thoughts on beauty and their aging bodies were also varied in that they're changing physical
[15:28]appearances only mattered insofar as it mattered to them when they were younger. Those who were
[15:33]valued for their good looks or athleticism experienced much more grief in regards to their current
[15:38]bodies than those who derived confidence from admirable qualities that were much less time fixed.
[15:44]Can you tell me more about that? Yeah. I mean, this part isn't really surprising to me that
[15:52]those who were derived a lot of value from what they look like or the capabilities of their bodies
[16:02]would experience a lot more sadness about those changing as we age, as opposed to those who
[16:10]derive value from something else that doesn't really change for the most part until
[16:17]you know, their end or some kind of thickness takes you over. Yeah, I think that that makes
[16:24]perfect sense. And I don't, but at the same time, I don't think if there are people who
[16:33]have a lot of joy from what they look like or what their bodies can do,
[16:37]I don't think that they should not be happy with those things. You know, I think one of the
[16:45]things that I've learned in post-colonial studies is that we're embodied being like part of our
[16:50]reality is to live in these physical bodies that we've been given and to make sure that everybody
[16:56]in these physical bodies are happy and healthy. So I just think that this is like the path of life
[17:03]is that that as we get older, that our bodies become become weaker and then we have to deal
[17:10]with the results and consequences of that. And part of that is grief, which is a very natural
[17:15]process of dealing with aging. I did, I did a similar like tiny study compared to the in-depth interviews
[17:26]you did, but I was interested in how my grandmother, who's now 90, almost 95, how she is still
[17:32]interested in her weight and her body image and always saying things like what do you think about
[17:37]her? Am I as fat as she is? It's tongue in cheek in the spine, but I was so surprised that when you
[17:44]were saying you're congregants, you're surprised with the hierarchy of aging and your culture. I think
[17:49]even just culture here in America is like you don't think that elderly people have the same, I know
[17:55]this sounds bizarre because obviously they do, but they must not have the same thoughts and feelings
[17:59]as we do at age 40 or whatever. Obviously it's just so much different. When in fact they're just
[18:05]us a little bit later in life, why would all the issues go magically just disappear? Because I
[18:12]found that I go ahead and reject. No, no, I was agreeing with you. I found that most I did like a
[18:22]research little study that I put in all the mailboxes of both my grandmothers nursing homes and
[18:28]an overwhelming amount of the women still cared a lot about what they ate and how their bodies
[18:34]looked and a lot of them weighed themselves in a day. It just never really went away and obviously
[18:39]similar to what we were just saying about your athleticism and looks in your aging. Obviously the
[18:46]women who had more eating disorders and issues with body image when they were younger have more
[18:52]issues with them later. Go figure, but still it's like I think it helps us in the stressful
[18:59]moments of our days, I think, to know that things don't just disappear when you're older and
[19:05]to get a handle on things now is so critical in a way. We have to just embrace some of the things
[19:11]about life not to be too philosophical. You're the minister here, so maybe you should be talking
[19:15]instead of me. No, you're saying exactly what I'm thinking. Yeah. Yeah, I think that I think that
[19:28]there is this two-part assumption that one, I won't care about this when I'm older and that it
[19:36]will just magically disappear and therefore I don't need to deal with it now. But exactly what
[19:42]you're saying is that one, we never stop being us. But at the same time, if we deal with these
[19:49]issues right now, it's actually going to affect our lives later instead of not dealing with it
[19:56]now and then just expecting that they'll resolve the phone to create them.
[20:00]Right clearly from these people that I've talked to. Yeah, interesting. And another another
[20:08]Element that you had touched on in your article was that no matter how old they were your congregants were still falling in love and becoming attracted to them
[20:15]Yeah, even those who they weren't necessarily married to like that doesn't stop either. They're really
[20:21]Uh-huh
[20:22]And I hope this kind of a good news to people
[20:26]I think that's good news to me. It has made me really happy to think that people still
[20:32]fall in love to the end of their lives. It's just such a great feeling to be in love with
[20:38]somebody so that that part of you doesn't really go away with age. I was very happy to discover that. Yeah, it's really
[20:48]It's actually really beautiful. You think about it. It's really nice. Yeah. Yeah, kind of sounding like not much is changing as people are getting older, but
[20:58]No
[21:00]The the last fighting was that you found that most congregants were less afraid of death and more afraid of dying, which you know
[21:07]Also makes sense. Can you tell me more about what people were saying about that?
[21:12]Yeah, it that
[21:15]Well, a lot of my the the people that interviewed most of them are church members and so they have this
[21:24]They have this
[21:27]Assurance that they're going to be taking care of after their life on earth are over
[21:31]So it's really that last light of the journey towards death that frightens them especially for those who are still pretty healthy right now
[21:40]Having watched their
[21:43]own family and friends go through some really difficult times
[21:47]Throughout that last light. I think that they just can't help to think about that for themselves
[21:52]And a lot of the times when you're really sick
[21:56]You can't really express
[21:58]What you want to happen to your body and that's the debate that's going on right now right in health care
[22:05]About the right to die and a dignified way to die and there's so many debates about that
[22:12]But it's a problem because as you get older and you get more and more sick
[22:19]You can't really express your
[22:22]desires and opinion in the way that you can hear healthy
[22:29]so I think there's a lot of
[22:31]I know that there's a lot of work being done right now
[22:34]Because I think this is ours before you get that state of not being able to express
[22:38]Your preference of which I think is a great thing
[22:44]It's hard to well anyway, this question is making me depressed. I think I'm going to move on
[22:50]Yes, I don't want to have like a panic attack while I'm interviewing you here
[22:56]But I will say I will say one thing that comes up a lot as a minister of a congregation with older folks
[23:02]And I'm doing my moral services all the time
[23:05]One thing that comes up a lot when somebody passes away, but it was unexpected is
[23:10]Wow, that's amazing. Like what a great desk, right? Like short and quick
[23:14]Like that's what everybody wants for themselves like just take me out and even if I expect it
[23:20]It's really that it's an Alzheimer's or the
[23:24]the crippling
[23:27]Like I don't know if they are really what what people are afraid of most and that we should try to avoid
[23:32]Yeah, but yeah, now we can move on
[23:38]So this article was just one of the of the many articles on your blog
[23:43]Which it looks like you started at your sense baptism with this absolutely beautiful
[23:47]Letter that you wrote to him and read out loud during the batches and
[23:51]How did you decide to start a blog in the middle of you know
[23:55]All the other sermons and things that you're doing writing
[23:58]How did that come about
[24:00]Yeah, so I initially started well this whole writing for a broader audience came out because
[24:07]I was starting a new
[24:11]A new program in my church
[24:13]And that would geared toward
[24:15]Millennials and older like people between ages of 20 or you who are not going to search these days
[24:20]And I had this like mission
[24:22]To let them know, you know
[24:24]I know that you guys don't want to share it because the church in that name for itself has created that name
[24:29]For itself and it's completely understandable
[24:31]But I want you to know that there's a different kind of safe out there
[24:35]And I didn't know it myself
[24:37]So I wrote this piece about being a minister and not that kind of judgmental
[24:44]You know
[24:45]fire birthstone to administer and I wrote another piece about
[24:49]An instruction to progress at Christianity and I pitched it to have posts which they posted
[24:58]And then very quickly after I did that their blogger
[25:03]Contribution contributor program ended
[25:06]And so here I was getting like our role at writing these people to get this message about
[25:12]Progressive Christianity out to a broader
[25:15]Audience and then they ended that program and so that's my decided
[25:19]Okay, I'm going to make my own login and now it's just become a thing where because I
[25:24]Discover that I really like writing these creative
[25:28]pieces that are just all my mind of thoughts
[25:32]And and then I my friend introduced me to the media platform
[25:37]And using that and having a ton of fun with that
[25:40]That blog off started
[25:43]You know, you should also look into
[25:45]Today's show has a today parenting team where you can also pronounce a contributor
[25:50]And they have a very wide reach as well and you just sign up and
[25:55]You know, they'll promote your articles if you have more likes or whatever
[25:58]But it has a lot of perks so you should look into that and have great articles
[26:02]And because I'm with you
[26:03]I started posting on how post and they posted one of my articles
[26:06]And I had like all these followers and then all of a sudden I was like okay
[26:09]Well
[26:11]Like now I actually like it, but what am I going to do now?
[26:14]Yeah, anyway, we'll look into that. It's another it's another good outlet in
[26:18]In addition to medium although they do own the way they own the rights to your stuff
[26:22]Well, we can talk about this later, but
[26:24]Maybe I'm you still own your your rights and today you can do whatever they want with it. So
[26:28]But it's a good platform
[26:32]Yeah, in one of the articles that you wrote you talked about
[26:36]two marriage hacks to helping
[26:38]marriages, which
[26:40]So dovetails nicely with the parenting piece
[26:43]And you said make a list of the moments that made you want to be with your spouse and let go of your victim story
[26:50]And how those are yeah, you were helpful
[26:52]Tell me more about that
[26:54]Please yeah, so I think that we humans
[26:58]Are very creative people and storytelling is one of our greatest gifts
[27:03]And it's also one of our greatest
[27:07]Practices that can lead to our demise and our suffering and
[27:11]We so easily create narratives about why me and why
[27:15]Happy to me and why that person doing that to me
[27:17]Not just about it although that happens most frequently with the people closest to us, but with
[27:23]job opportunities or not getting certain things in your life and
[27:29]one of the
[27:30]strongest teachings and mindfulness practices and also in Buddhism is
[27:37]Accepting things as they are as they are neutrally and then from there not creating a story
[27:45]but creating the story that you
[27:47]Want to live as following and being in alignment with your values
[27:52]So that's where that coming from because we so easily make stories and my thoughts is something that
[28:00]Doesn't he doesn't do something that I want him to do and then I have this
[28:05]concept
[28:06]common narrative
[28:09]You know, he's not a good husband and I should be with somebody else or I would be happier with somebody else and
[28:16]Anything that he can do can feed that narrative. That's just
[28:20]You know my own thing of the story
[28:24]And so I think in talking with my friends who are also married
[28:28]also have a tendency to do this
[28:30]And so the first thing is just to drop to notice this tendency and then to
[28:36]Let go of that story and not to say that that story won't go away to the pleatie
[28:40]But just even noticing that we're telling that story is a really first powerful step
[28:47]I get
[28:50]And then
[28:52]Yeah, tell me about the lit print. Do you keep your list? Yeah, like at the ready or they like laminate it on the fridge or
[28:59]Yeah, what I do on my phone is more quiet like my go ahead. No, I was I was just kidding
[29:04]I didn't think they were really on the fridge. Oh
[29:08]Yeah, so
[29:10]This is the second part of that story that as we let go of our victim story is that we start creating a different story
[29:17]A different story that actually serves serves our relationship and in mind with our values of
[29:24]of treating one another well and empathy and
[29:28]Always considering another person's perspective before their own and so when we are
[29:35]prone to
[29:37]Just
[29:38]Going into our own stories. That's when I pull out my note
[29:44]App on my iPhone where I have a list of all the things the wonderful things that I have been at that for me
[29:50]And with me and the beautiful memories that we created and then I reminded that we're doing something out
[29:56]There's another story to the story that I create when when he does
[30:00]do something I wanted to do.
[30:05]Good idea.
[30:06]I'm going to whip up on that.
[30:07]I'm going to whip my phone out right now, and get started.
[30:10]Yeah, do it, do it, do it, do it,
[30:12]along with, and have made it runny, but you are always out of it.
[30:17]That's nice.
[30:19]I know we're almost out of time for this interview.
[30:21]But I want to hear about the class that you teach online
[30:24]called Spiritual Decision Making, which you teach through
[30:27]a site called Skillshare.
[30:28]Skillshare, which I hadn't heard of, but sounds amazing.
[30:31]And I want to go figure out something I can teach.
[30:33]I can do it, too.
[30:34]But in your class, you help students make decisions small and large
[30:38]in a more spiritually aware manner.
[30:41]So as someone who can't even select which nail polish to wear,
[30:44]let alone vacation ideas, I'd love to hear your top tips on how
[30:50]to make decisions.
[30:54]Yeah, totally.
[30:55]So decision making is one of my biggest questions
[30:59]like the subject that I love talking about, because I've
[31:01]struggled with these decisions for so much of my life,
[31:04]like should I marry the person, should I go into the profession?
[31:08]And it can be really energy and time consuming.
[31:11]And so that's when I started speaking out and finding a lot of
[31:15]resources within the Christian contemplative religious tradition
[31:20]that moves away from the dominant method of decision-making that
[31:24]we're taught in our schools with them and in the Western
[31:27]intellectual world, which is very rational and reader-based
[31:32]calculating, and also very fear-based.
[31:36]So we make a lot of decision-based our fears of what are we afraid
[31:41]will come out of this path versus this path, as opposed to making
[31:47]decisions that are based on confidence and courage and
[31:51]dreaming.
[31:52]So that is much more a part of ourselves that very repressed,
[31:59]because we're afraid to risk and be vulnerable.
[32:03]For so many reasons why we are afraid to dream.
[32:10]And so I basically discovered these practices that
[32:14]get access to that other more courageous, confident,
[32:19]peaceful part of ourselves through imagination and prayer.
[32:24]And those give insight into what path you should take.
[32:33]So I get specific.
[32:35]So one specific exercise is and for all these exercises you have to
[32:40]like get into the mood of calm and breathing and
[32:44]a quiet room where you are not distracted by anything else.
[32:48]So that's the very first step.
[32:49]And in one of the four methods is imagining yourself
[32:55]much older than you are and then having a conversation
[33:00]with that self about the decision that you're trying to make.
[33:04]And then listening in on what she tells you.
[33:09]Yeah, so I'm incredibly creative and imaginative, very
[33:12]different from the prokron, reason-based,
[33:17]calculating method that we are often taught.
[33:22]That's so great.
[33:23]I feel like I have so many now tips from this conversation.
[33:26]I feel like I can apply it in my life.
[33:28]This is fantastic.
[33:29]And you don't have a hold of it.
[33:30]Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[33:33]And as I told you by email by the way,
[33:35]I am convinced that you should be writing a book.
[33:37]I mean, you have such a unique point of view.
[33:40]So for any listeners out there who agree with me
[33:42]after contact with you, son, reverently with you, son.
[33:46]Get her right a book.
[33:48]Do you have any interest in doing that?
[33:50]I feel like it's such a natural extension of what you've been doing.
[33:54]Thank you so much.
[33:56]I would love to write a book one day.
[33:58]I don't have any plan to do it any time soon.
[34:02]And part of the game is because I really don't know what I would write about.
[34:07]I have used like three months of inspiration for essays.
[34:11]So like a very short thing that are driven by like a little kernel of a thought.
[34:18]But I haven't had anything that in my class about 200 pages quite yet.
[34:24]So maybe the inspirational strike, eventually.
[34:27]And then I'll let you all know.
[34:30]Awesome.
[34:31]Well, honestly, thank you so, so much for your time.
[34:33]I'm sorry we couldn't meet in person, but I'm so thrilled that we got a chance to chat.
[34:37]Thank you for these really actionable tips and also for giving me and I'm sure listeners
[34:44]the perspective of what you gleaned from your elderly congregants and how that helps sort of live
[34:49]life in a better, more fulfilling, sort of meaningful way today.
[34:53]I mean, I can't really talk enough.
[34:56]It's amazing.
[34:57]You're welcome.
[34:57]Thank you so much.
[34:58]I enjoy this very much.
[35:00]Oh, good.
[35:00]I'm so glad.
[35:01]All right.
[35:02]Well, thank you so much.
[35:03]And take care.
[35:05]Thank you.
[35:05]Bye-bye.
[35:08]This episode of moms don't have time to read books has been sponsored by once upon a farm
[35:13]organics once upon a farm organics.com.
[35:16]Thanks for listening.