Jill Santopolo, Author of THE LIGHT WE LOST
[0:00]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and this is Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:15]As a mom of four kids in New York City and a writer myself, I know all too well how short
[0:19]everyone is on time, so I'm here to help.
[0:21]I'm going to interview authors and writers of all types about their work, especially as
[0:25]it relates to parenting and family issues.
[0:28]Hopefully you can listen while doing 8 million other things, and fall in love with these
[0:31]talented scribes and their fantastic books, essays, and songs like I have.
[0:35]Plus, get some tips on surviving parenthood.
[0:37]For more about me, you can check out my essays at zibiowans.com.
[0:42]Today's episode has been sponsored by Once Upon a Farm.
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[1:00]I'm super excited today to be welcoming Jill Sant Polo on Mom's Don't Have Time to Read
[1:05]Books.
[1:06]National and International Best-selling author Jill Santo Polo got her start writing at
[1:10]the age of three with a picture book about Stacey the Cat.
[1:13]Since then, she has become a writer, editor, teacher, and consummate storyteller.
[1:18]Jill majored in English at Columbia, received an MFA at Vermont College, and even attended
[1:23]NYU to learn about intellectual property rights.
[1:25]She currently edits for the Young Reader's Division at Phil and Mel Books, an imprint
[1:29]of Penguin Young Readers Group.
[1:31]She's also an educator and has been a thesis advisor at the New School and taught at Columbia
[1:35]and McDaniel Colleges.
[1:37]Jill is the author of the Alec Flint Sparkle Spot and follow your hard book series in
[1:42]addition to being the author of the light we lost to the amazing bestseller that has been
[1:46]translated into more than 30 languages which we're going to talk mostly about today.
[1:50]Hi, Jill.
[1:51]Hi, Jill.
[1:52]How are you?
[1:53]Good.
[1:54]How are you doing?
[1:55]Good.
[1:56]Thanks so much for being on Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[1:57]This is such an honor that you've come on this show.
[2:01]Oh, yes.
[2:02]Thank you so much for having me.
[2:03]Of course.
[2:04]So I know you're an amazingly accomplished editor, but I'd like to start today by talking
[2:08]about the light we lost basically because I'm obsessed with the book.
[2:12]As you know, I direct messenger on Instagram after finishing it and I was sitting on
[2:17]my bed sobbing and clutching my chest and you were nice enough to respond to me.
[2:21]In fact, you know, the book was moved me so much this morning.
[2:25]I was telling my husband the plot when he asked me who I was interviewing today.
[2:28]And I started crying again and he was like, wait, you know, he's like, this is the fun
[2:32]beach read.
[2:33]You recommended to Mike to Florio last night?
[2:35]So anyway, I feel like I need to send you packets of tissues.
[2:39]I know.
[2:40]I'm going to keep around.
[2:41]I'm excited about a weeper.
[2:42]I'm like, you know, I cry commercials, but anyway, the point is I recommended it to basically
[2:47]everyone is like the read of the summer, so I'm super excited to be talking to you about
[2:51]it.
[2:52]So for a listener who don't know what the light we lost is about, could you give them
[2:55]a quick summary please?
[2:56]Sure.
[2:58]I'll give her a super quick one, which is it's the story of Lucy, the way that the
[3:08]two of them meet and connect deeply and then what happens over the next 13 years as they
[3:16]come in and out of each other's lives and their secrets and their portrayals and their
[3:20]sympathy themes and it's basically a story of love and loss and personal connection.
[3:30]Your depiction of being heartbroken in this book is just so spot on.
[3:35]In the little, you know, discussion questions in the back of the paperback, you had
[3:40]said, answered one of the questions that your own heartbreak was actually the impetus
[3:44]for the story.
[3:45]So I was just wondering if I could totally pry into your personal life and find out.
[3:50]Can you tell me more about what happened to you that sparked this like beautiful page
[3:53]genre?
[3:54]Maybe something you haven't shared before?
[3:56]Sure.
[3:59]I hadn't realized when I wrote the story or when I wrote that about the story that I would
[4:05]get asked about my love life a lot.
[4:07]Sorry.
[4:08]Sorry.
[4:09]Can you do it now?
[4:10]No, it's great.
[4:11]I'm totally used to it.
[4:12]I'm comfortable with it.
[4:13]You can do what I feel like part of writing a story like this is connecting with people
[4:20]about love and loss and life and I'm happy to share.
[4:26]So basically I had been in a relationship for about three years and it was the relationship
[4:31]that I thought was going to be the one I was in for the rest of my life.
[4:37]And I sort of imagined our future together and I was in, I was all in and then the relationship
[4:45]just kind of exploded for a number of reasons.
[4:50]And even though I probably should have seen it coming, I didn't.
[4:55]And I was just shattered.
[4:59]I mean I had never been this much of a mess in my life and have not since since I'm a
[5:10]writer, the way I kind of process anything is by writing.
[5:15]So I started writing this sort of series of vignettes about this one Lucy who was also going
[5:21]through breakup and her stories at my story and she's not me but I sort of had in her
[5:31]created a kind of friend to go through breakup with and also a way to kind of explore
[5:39]what I was feeling at that time.
[5:42]So people ask me a lot of that book about a biographical and plot by plot point, no it's
[5:47]not autobiographical but I do like to say it's emotionally autobiographical because a lot
[5:51]of the things that Lucy feels in this book are things that I felt at various points in my
[5:55]life and wrote about them here.
[5:59]And do you feel like the writing helped you?
[6:01]Did it help you through that time?
[6:03]I do.
[6:04]I absolutely do.
[6:05]I feel like it gave me perspective, it gave me a way to kind of understand what I was
[6:09]feeling and what I was going through.
[6:11]And it also took about four years to write so you know how it helped as well but by the
[6:16]time that the book was on I think I was in a much, much, much better place than I was
[6:20]when I started writing it.
[6:22]So how long from the time of your explosive breakup to right now has gone by?
[6:28]Okay so you've got some perspective at this point.
[6:36]Yeah, that's good.
[6:38]So if someone reading this book has a relationship in their past that this book reminds
[6:44]them up that's as intense and sort of this once in a lifetime type of love like Lucy
[6:48]and Gabe's, what would you tell them to go back and chase after it after writing the story
[6:54]or do you feel like Lucy kind of made a wise choice in the decisions that she made?
[7:00]Oh man, you know, I think Lucy made the only choice that she as a character could have
[7:07]made and I think that that's kind of how it is with everyone, like there are different
[7:15]things that are important to all of us and I think that for Lucy in this book her career
[7:22]was also important to her and a lot of the decisions that she made.
[7:29]She made so that she could further that piece of she was, you know, I think so much
[7:39]about life and what are the things that I kind of was realizing when I was writing this is
[7:45]about making choices based on what's important and I feel like there are sometimes in
[7:53]your life when you know it's important to follow this love because I feel it in my bones
[8:02]that this is something I need to do and other times you feel like that's actually not
[8:08]what's important right now.
[8:10]This person was important to me for a really long time and shaped who I am in various ways
[8:15]but that was then and other things are important to me now.
[8:20]It's also easier to look back right and say oh I should have done this at that time but at the
[8:24]time you have the choices in front of you and you don't have like every choice in the world
[8:27]like these that this is what's going on so yeah well and I think that you know we make
[8:36]decisions we do at the time because they're very much in that moment and you need the things like
[8:41]where you're going to go to college if you're going to go to college what job you're going to take
[8:45]you know you make those job you need those decisions at a particular moment in time because of
[8:52]you know who you already have to have a moment and I feel like the decisions Lucy made she made
[8:57]because of who she was leading up to those moments.
[9:00]In the book you talk about hearth fire relationships versus wildfire relationships
[9:05]and can you explain the difference for listeners?
[9:08]Yeah so you should have been kind of just it makes you crazy it takes over your life it becomes
[9:23]the thing in your life that kind of scorches everything else in its path because that's the only
[9:29]thing that exists and then hearth fire relationships are kind of the ones that are stable and solid
[9:40]and there but maybe not quite as closer or so if you if you had to pick just one of those to
[9:54]have in life which would you pick?
[10:00]one that they talked about? Yes, yes, yes. I know the combination. I know. I know. I'm like very black and white. I'm sorry.
[10:07]There's the bonfire which I think I think for me is it feels like it's exciting and could kind of
[10:21]get bigger and and it's powerful but also is safe. You know that there's there's the excitement
[10:31]there but there's also a bit of sanity as well. Okay, I'll stop talking about your love
[10:41]life now. I'm sorry. So you started the book on 9-11 when Lucy and Gabe were in a Shakespeare
[10:50]class at Columbia and you said that you were in a class that day as well. And then when Lucy
[10:57]decides to work in program development for kids TV after graduation, you say you write in the
[11:03]book. I couldn't help grinning. It was a job. I'd been crossing my fingers over for almost two months
[11:07]before I got it. The kind of job that I'd started thinking about soon after the towers fell after I
[11:12]admitted that I wanted to do something more meaningful than advertising, a job that could reach
[11:16]the next generation and have the potential to change the future. So just a little about me. I was
[11:21]actually in business school class myself that day and I had worked in advertising and marketing
[11:25]before school. And then I actually lost my best friend and former roommate on 9-11. She worked in the
[11:31]North Tower and it made me it made me rethink everything as well. And I literally like when I read
[11:37]this in your book, I like jolted in recognition because I literally spent the rest of my life saying
[11:42]well then I realized you know if I'm going to die at my desk working, I don't want to be trying to
[11:46]sell pepperish farm cookies anymore. You know, which which used to be fun, but when you have to
[11:51]look at life that way. And anyway, that's when I started writing full time for a while. And
[11:56]anyway, enough about me. But you know, I had that same experience. I'm sure many listeners did
[12:01]as well. And I was wondering, did you have a similar change of heart or not even change of
[12:06]heart, but just sort of re clarification of direction after 9-11 like Lucy or was everything
[12:13]sort of a clear path for you? I mean, I think it was even for me more of a reaffirmation because
[12:20]I had always known, I only know that I wanted to write. I wanted to be involved in storytelling
[12:26]when I was in college. I interned at publishing houses. But I think that I sort of had had
[12:34]reaffirmed after September 11th that I wanted to go into children's editorial, which is my
[12:40]other job when I'm not writing and to write books for children as well. And sort of
[12:50]sort of the way Lucy says that she that she wants to read to the next generation and have the
[12:56]potential to change the future. I kind of was realizing that, you know, there are a lot of things
[13:04]in this world that I'm not particularly good at. But one of the things I'm okay at is storytelling
[13:09]and that if that's the thing that I can do, if that's, you know, I can use that to help hopefully
[13:18]make the world a little bit better than it was when I loved it. When I knew that it was when I
[13:24]found it. And that was kind of the moment where I was like, alright, I want to write books for kids.
[13:31]I want to add books for kids. I want to potentially open their minds to different ideas and
[13:38]different points of view and, you know, different things that I think are valuable for young
[13:46]readers to know in this world. And, you know, I think a lot of my friends had similar kind of
[13:53]reactions that that you and I had after September a lot of this thing, like I want to be a doctor,
[13:58]I want to be a journalist, I want to be, you know, more to help people. I think that, you know,
[14:07]experiencing living through the experience of September 11th, especially at 2021, however, was
[14:22]was basically a big realization for me and for a lot of my friends that there isn't always
[14:26]tomorrow. So, you know, make the eight count. Yeah. And how then how did you go from focusing
[14:35]so much on children's books and, you know, writing all these amazing series that you've written
[14:40]editing children's work in young adults, how did you drift into writing this amazing book for adults?
[14:48]I mean, I didn't intend for this to be a book. I really intended for it just to be
[14:56]these vignettes that I was writing to sort of help myself through this breakout. And then I
[15:00]showed the first 30 pages you were trying to find who's a writer sort of said, you know,
[15:08]kind of thing. And then then I really started trying to finish it and trying to put it together
[15:25]and with that in mind. And, you know, there were sections where my editor has asked me,
[15:31]you know, you actually can push this scene a little bit further. You don't have to stop at the
[15:35]if you're writing for a grown-up. Yeah, you had one particularly, you know, I don't know,
[15:42]not extrated, but definitely R-rated scene in there. You kind of see what I think. Yeah.
[15:51]So, you know, you're this great editor as well. What do you think are the three most important
[15:57]things you've taken from your editing career that you have to make sure to apply to your own
[16:02]children's books? I always think about the fact that my goal of an editor is to put books out there
[16:17]that will make not want to put them down because I feel like there are always so many things
[16:22]that are competing for kid detention and for adult attention as well. But I'm usually thinking
[16:27]about kids and I sort of say like, I want them to not be able to put this book down because once
[16:32]they do, they're going to pay something else and get involved in that and saying what can I do
[16:47]the structure to see if I can kind of make grown-ups now put this book down because they have a
[16:52]lot of other things competing for their time as well and I want them to forget about this book.
[16:56]I should capture in a couple pages. I might as well read another one. Why have their short?
[17:13]And also to kind of felt like every word that was in this book was something that needed to be
[17:23]in this book. I didn't want anything extra so that that also, they're hopefully, I tried to at
[17:29]least make sure that there are no points in the book where there's just kind of gratuitous
[17:33]lagging stuff that everything is there for a reason which kind of hopefully for a healthier
[17:39]word. So I was sort of thinking about those kind of aspects of writing children's books and
[17:45]editing children's books when I was writing this one. I think the short chapter is really
[17:49]make a difference just being a mom and having sort of a shorter attention span. I feel so
[17:55]accomplished and I can finish a chapter. I know it's so silly but I think you were right on
[18:00]with that one. Okay, I'm glad. So where and when do you write? Can you can you give me like a
[18:07]visual of sort of what it is? Do you write at your desk in your office or you're in a coffee shop?
[18:12]Like what's your process like? But I put her earlier than on your plane when deadlines are
[18:32]really moving to writing on the subway. I didn't press this pull my elbows in really
[18:40]luckily my laptop not very big. My couch in my living room, even though I had a little office in
[18:50]my apartment, I tend to write a little room out of the office which why I haven't then I don't
[18:54]really have. I need to off and go out. My mom has a house on the front of my arm and so sometimes
[19:09]I'll just go there for a few days and it's really quiet and right as far as writing is concerned.
[19:20]As long as I got a laptop at some time, there's a good chance I'll be writing something.
[19:26]And I saw us speaking of the East End. I'm out here as well. I saw that you're going to be
[19:30]one of the authors at Authors Night on August 11th out in Amigansa. Yeah. And I'm also this
[19:36]coming Saturday going to be at Book Harbor in Zag Harbor at I think six o'clock and I'm going
[19:43]to do a Facebook live there with Caraprey for Bellagist. Awesome. So that's July 31st.
[19:51]Right, July 21st to be at. July 21st. Yeah, August 11th on Authors Night. Well,
[19:57]I'll be at Authors Night so you'll have a little bit of
[20:00]So I'm going to do some live podcasts and we'll see how it gets.
[20:05]And as you were saying about writing on airplanes,
[20:06]I'm trying to write a book myself right now.
[20:08]And for a while, I was like, you know what?
[20:10]I think I'm going to write the whole thing on a plane.
[20:11]That's like the only time when nobody bothers me.
[20:14]And I can focus.
[20:15]So yeah, I kind of hate now that I have a lot of airplanes.
[20:19]I know.
[20:20]Do other things.
[20:21]I know.
[20:21]Like, you could just be a good.
[20:23]So I could write and I didn't feel bad about missing out on anything.
[20:26]I tried to say that the $20 Wi-Fi fee is going to prohibit me from turning it on.
[20:34]Like, oh, I could do it, but I'm not going to because I don't want to pay the money or something.
[20:39]So yeah, but then I learned that also you can use miles to turn it on.
[20:45]And I was like, well, miles, that's not even anything.
[20:48]That's not even whatever.
[20:50]No, I mean, I know not that I mean, I know.
[20:52]I mean, it's terrible.
[20:54]I'm terrible.
[20:56]I don't need more reasons.
[20:59]Just one more question about the book.
[21:00]At the end of the book, you had a copy of all the light we cannot see on Gabe's nightstand.
[21:06]And I thought it was so interesting because I feel like I so rarely see references to
[21:10]others in more contemporary books in a book.
[21:13]What made you put that book in there in that scene?
[21:17]Well, I wanted the reference, the book reference to be,
[21:25]I wanted the book reference to say something about Gabe and also to say something about the story
[21:30]and also to say something about the time period that he was writing in.
[21:36]And so I wanted a contemporary book because I wanted it to be like you, the guy who reads what's
[21:41]coming out, you know, as well as classics because, you know, from the rest of the book,
[21:47]you kind of know that you read a lot of Shakespeare and history.
[21:52]And I had just read all that you can't see.
[21:55]And I thought it was one of the most remarkable books that I had read in a really long time.
[22:01]And I think because it was about war and it was about survival and it was about
[22:07]you know, the left between people who not necessarily, the sort of typical lustery,
[22:22]but like a family relationship kind of caring about each other.
[22:30]And I just sort of felt like there were a lot of themes that were in that book that I wanted
[22:36]Gabe to have been reading.
[22:39]And then I thought kind of tied into where he was in his life and in the world.
[22:44]And also that he probably would have liked it.
[22:48]Yep. So.
[22:50]And I liked how you also included a playlist of songs to listen to when reading the book
[22:54]or discussing it at the end of your end of the book, including Bruce Springsteen's The Rising
[22:59]and Homeward Bound by Simon and Garfunkel.
[23:02]I don't know why everybody doesn't do that. That's such a good idea.
[23:05]What made you include a playlist and how did you think those songs?
[23:09]You know, a lot of those songs were songs that I was listening to while I was writing the book
[23:16]or sounds that I found inspirational at various moments when I was reading the book.
[23:21]But asked me when a hardcover came out to put together a Spotify playlist for the book.
[23:35]And I thought it was such a cool idea and I think it's on Spotify somewhere.
[23:39]And I like the idea of trying to tell the narrative about the story through song.
[23:48]And also through songs that I had been listening to you in the years that I was writing the book.
[23:56]So I kind of put it together and I think I hope that the song lyrics and the song
[24:06]topics and emotions kind of follow the story. But I like doing it so much that I
[24:16]actually have already started one for my next book, so that it'll be right.
[24:20]Oh, that's great. And tell me I already pre-ordered your next book on Amazon.
[24:25]But before, before it arrives, can you tell me a little more about what that's about?
[24:32]I mean, I read about it online, but for the listeners here.
[24:35]And so it's called More Than Words and it's coming out February 5th, 2019.
[24:42]And it's about a woman whose father passes away and then after she dies,
[24:48]she finds out all of these secrets that he'd been keeping for her while he was alive.
[24:52]And those secrets kind of change her perception of her childhood and of her relationship with him
[25:00]and of her thoughts about his relationship with her mother. And then it also changes
[25:07]how she sees herself fitting into the world and the kind of choices she makes as far as
[25:15]romance and relationship in her life, though as well.
[25:18]Excellent. Can't wait for that. There are actually two very small peripheral characters
[25:25]in More Than Words. You are a character from the lady last because I decided I wanted all of
[25:29]my adult looks to be in the same world of New York City. Oh, I love that.
[25:37]I was going to say earlier, like, is there any way we could follow Lucy, you know, after?
[25:43]And then I was thinking, I can't ask her. What's she going to do with us?
[25:47]How could she possibly do a sequel to this book? It's like a amazing button.
[25:50]I'm so glad because I feel like such a connection to your characters. I am eager to see what
[25:55]life has, what where life goes for them. I've always said that if I did a sequel to the
[26:00]light we lost, it would be from Darren's perspective. Interesting. I feel like he poured
[26:06]into her life. Darren's like a total trooper. He's like, it's a book and a lot. I know where
[26:14]I go. So are you a fan of photography? You have a photography plays a huge role in the light we
[26:21]especially with Gabe and the show and everything. How did you, are you a personal fan? Or did you
[26:28]think that was just a good literary device? No, I love beautiful photography and I'm not a very good
[26:35]photographer. So I especially admire people who are able to really capture emotion with their
[26:44]photographs. Take a photography class in high school and it was the best time but you've been
[26:52]looking back. I was like, I didn't learn anything. Did I? Not the teacher thought the teacher was
[26:58]great. I just, I don't know. I don't have an eye for it and I wish I did. But I do have
[27:04]brain photographs up in my, in my apartment and stuff. I think it's, I think there's something
[27:11]about the fact that it is capturing a moment in time in a real person's life, especially when
[27:21]there's a photograph with a person in it. I think there's something really, really remarkable
[27:27]about that. Yeah. You know, in the fact that you can tell a story with just one image.
[27:33]Yeah. It's like, let's just forget writing books. Okay. Okay. So what is on your wishlist going
[27:41]forward professionally? You have another book coming out. You're still obviously an editor
[27:45]and have more and more, you know, great children's books coming out like Chelsea Clinton's book.
[27:50]What's your, you know, what's left for you? What do you want to do next?
[27:57]Oh, man. I mean, I want, I would love to just keep being able to do what I'm doing.
[28:03]Um, I, I loved writing books for kids. It looked visiting schools and being the, um, you know,
[28:11]visiting author, even though sometimes they think I'm making the author, which is the cutest thing that
[28:17]ever happens. Um, and sort of, you know, how do kids find their voices and their stories
[28:27]and encouraging them to, to, you know, share what they want to with the world. And I love
[28:34]working with authors and, and helping them, um, you know, realize their vision for their stories
[28:40]and, and championing them and getting them out into the world. And I love writing books for adults.
[28:47]I love being able to explore sort of the, the parts of life that happened after your
[28:57]10 or 18 or or whatever, you know, where we're going to think about careers and families and
[29:07]love and parents and as they get older and so your place in the world. Um, and, and I've
[29:18]looked especially with the light we lost being able to connect with readers who want to tell me
[29:23]their stories about their first love or, you know, ways that they kept it to the characters
[29:28]in the way we lost. So I just want to keep doing what I'm doing. And my wish list is I hope
[29:34]people like more than words. I'm sure they will. I can't imagine. I mean, I can't imagine that they
[29:40]wouldn't. But do you, uh, do you have any advice to aspiring writers? You, and this might sound
[29:50]like very silly advice. But may turn to right. That to me, I think, is...
[30:02]When I decided that I was going to take writing my own writing seriously was when I said,
[30:07]okay, I'm going to schedule writing into my week, into my day, into my weekend, and
[30:14]I'm going to write from this time to this time, and that's my calendar now.
[30:18]And when somebody calls and says, hey, can you have brush on Sunday?
[30:22]I say, I'm sorry, I can't, I'm busy.
[30:26]And, you know, to make writing a priority and not sort of fit it in around the rest of
[30:32]your life, which is what I've been doing for a while.
[30:36]And I think that scheduling it and making it a thing that you do that you're responsible
[30:42]to yourself for, kind of, at least it made me think about writing in a different way.
[30:53]It's great.
[30:54]Just my last question, do you believe there's one true love for each person?
[30:57]I don't know, but a lot of us could probably be happy with a lot of different people.
[31:14]You know, I think there's about, gave that me, Lucy, happy there, things about there,
[31:25]and that maybe Lucy, happy, and there are probably things about other people like the
[31:31]scientists she met for five and a half minutes in the book that might have made Lucy
[31:35]be happy, too.
[31:36]And I think it just would have been a different life for her.
[31:41]And I think it really was about her making choices about what was the most important for
[31:49]her at that moment in time.
[31:51]So I think I don't know maybe for us, too, that there are a lot of people that you
[31:59]can find happiness, and some people you probably can act with more deeply than others.
[32:03]Let me know who that's in the case for me.
[32:06]If you're saying that there's one soulmate, it's almost sad to me, because what if that
[32:13]soulmate lives somewhere else, and you never meet them, and you've got your whole life,
[32:19]not with your soulmate?
[32:20]Yeah.
[32:21]That just makes it feel so sad to me, so I know.
[32:24]So there have to be lots of people we can be happy with, so that we don't risk that
[32:31]the situation where a soulmate lives somewhere, we don't need to meet them.
[32:34]Okay.
[32:35]I'm sorry if I'm putting you on the spot, I'd like that answer.
[32:41]Well, Jill, thank you so much for chatting with me.
[32:44]I really appreciate it, and thanks for writing such an amazing story that really transported
[32:51]me, and obviously so many others around the world.
[32:53]So thank you so much.
[32:56]Thank you so much for having me on, and I'll see you in August.
[33:00]Okay, take care.
[33:01]Me too.
[33:04]Thanks for listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[33:06]Today's episode has been sponsored by Once Upon a Farm Organics.
[33:11]Once Upon a Farm Organics.com.
[33:13]Thanks so much.