Chef Lauren Costello, Author of "Notes on Cooking"
[0:10]Welcome to momstone have time to read books. The podcast that features conversations with
[0:15]writers of all types. Today's episode of momstone have time to read books has been sponsored by
[0:20]Bobo Botanicals, BABO Botanicals. Bobo Botanicals offers your family non-toxic and pure
[0:27]hair, skin, and sun solutions created with effective natural or organic ingredients. You can buy
[0:32]their products on Amazon or check them out at bobo botanicals.com. I'm here today with my
[0:39]great old friend Lauren Ron Costello. Lauren is a chef, author, instructor, and former food stylist
[0:46]for the view and the early show. A graduate of Colgate University and the French Culinary Institute
[0:52]Lauren started and ran her own catering firm Gotham Caterers while getting into the food styling
[0:57]world. She has since written two books about cooking. The first is notes on cooking a short guide
[1:02]to an essential craft and the second is the competent cook, essential tools, techniques, and recipes
[1:07]for the modern at-home cook. Plus she co-authored children's book, which my kids love, entitled Eat
[1:12]Your Breakfast or Else. Lauren hosted 45 episodes, a lot of an AOL cooking series in 2010 called
[1:20]Pantry Challenge, and has regularly appeared on TV to showcase various recipes. She currently lives
[1:26]in Connecticut with her husband and two cents. I welcome Lauren. Thank you, Zippy. So I want to talk
[1:32]about your wonderful books, but first I want to hear a little more about your food styling career
[1:36]because that's just so completely unique and cool. So how did you get into food styling? What
[1:41]exactly does food styling even mean? Those are both great questions. What food styling means is I
[1:46]like in it since you're a writer to ghost writing. It's like being a ghost writer. So if you see
[1:53]Tyler Florence on a morning show doing a five-minute segment making steak and salad and barbecue,
[2:00]that's been three days of work and somebody has done that and it hasn't been Tyler because he's
[2:04]busy and he has to do other things. So someone else like me comes into the studio early early
[2:10]early that morning because you're probably watching that segment at, you know, seven, 30 in the
[2:13]morning or eight o'clock in the morning. The view was a godsend because that was, you know,
[2:18]11 o'clock in the morning. That was really, really nice. So the early rise for that was 6 a.m.
[2:23]But in those other cases, it's very early and the work happens the two days before that. You have
[2:28]to plan with the celebrity chef prep, go through the recipes and build out all those segments.
[2:34]When you watch a cooking show and they've taken the recipe at all the various stages and they
[2:38]do it for you in three minutes, that's a lot of work. And so it's, that's what food styling is.
[2:43]And sometimes it's as simple as just making something beautiful for a photograph.
[2:47]At least it's not as effortless as it looks. No, people are just like whipping it up on the screen.
[2:51]They're not what figured out. How did they do that? I know all the unhappy housewives with all
[2:55]of the stress because they could get so easy. So that's what food styling is, how I got into it
[3:01]was on a whim. I did not go to culinary school thinking I would be a food stylist. I went to culinary
[3:07]school. I think at the time with my then fiance, hoping that the food bill in our house would
[3:12]lower because I get paid for doing all the wonderful meals I like to do and get even better at it.
[3:19]That work out for you. Right now I think we're back. I feel like, you know how they say as people age,
[3:24]you become a baby, you're in a wheelchair, you're in a diaper, you eat soft food. I'm back to entertaining
[3:28]every other day and Connecticut and keeping those grocery bills high. But of course I love it.
[3:33]Your Instagram feed, by the way, is like mouth-watering. Thank you. There was literally
[3:37]for listeners who want to go to her, what's your Instagram again? It's Lauren Broncustello.
[3:41]At Lauren Broncustello, there was a birthday cake that you made for your husband, Sean, that I
[3:46]almost got in the car at 730 and I enjoyed it. Because I made awesome. I made awesome.
[3:50]It's made awesome. You're like anyone wants that one. I was like, can I get there tonight? Anyway,
[3:54]so I think we have to do that part two for this February. We'll have to do it again. My step-by
[3:58]I said, you're never doing that again, right? I said, unfortunately, I think I'm doing all
[4:02]my gear like to make. So no, not at all. So the food selling career I did not go to culinary school,
[4:07]thinking that would be the case. I went to culinary school a little over 15 years ago at a time
[4:12]when the food landscape was such that there were a lot of nascent, exciting things happening,
[4:18]but nascent being the operative word. It wasn't clear that there were all these exceptionally
[4:23]cool paths you could take. It was kind of like, I'll be a restaurant cook or a caterer.
[4:28]But there's no way I want to be a restaurant cook. I'm newly married and I have a uterus.
[4:32]So somebody has to carry the baby around and do all that work. So I knew that that wouldn't be
[4:38]good for me. I didn't want to be like going to medical school in the middle of giving birth. What's
[4:42]the point of that to work that hard and not just be able to go gangbusters? So I said, well,
[4:47]I'll start a catering company because I'll hopefully build up a good client list and pick and choose
[4:52]the work you can say no when someone calls you to your restaurant has to stay open. So I went
[4:58]with that in mind and then the French culinary institute, which is now called the International
[5:02]Culinary Center, happened to have and still does I should say is spectacular placement office.
[5:10]So anyone who's looking for a private chef call up the International Culinary Center,
[5:13]they'll hook you up with someone, but they also help place people. And when I was getting ready
[5:18]to graduate, in fact, the day before or the day of my graduation, I had gone into the office
[5:23]to speak to them about any upcoming catering gigs. And they said, oh, something just came across
[5:28]my desk. That's we know life works that way, right? Timing is everything hard work, but mostly
[5:33]a lot of luck. And it was for Michel Nichon, who was the chef at Heartbeat Restaurant, which used to
[5:41]be at the W Hotel. He was doing a Stonyfield yogurt press event and he needed someone to assist
[5:48]him. And I said, cool, you know, I will do anything. Like I'm not working, if I'm not catering,
[5:54]I'm not working. So I'll do, you know, one day gigs, two day gigs, get paid an nominal amount,
[5:58]or not even. I was happy just to work. And I show up and he calls him on time and he's late.
[6:05]And I say, okay, no big deal, but I'm on time. So I look like a good, you know, recent graduate
[6:10]of 18 hours. And he says, I'm sorry I can't be there. Oprah has called and told me that
[6:18]her crew was coming today. I told him it wasn't convenient. And they said, don't worry,
[6:21]it works for us. You know, they just showed up at his house. He had a book coming out that
[6:26]was head to head with Harry Potter at the time, thanks to Oprah. So the power of Oprah.
[6:31]But I was shaking. I thought, I have to do this. I have to prep by myself. I was there to assist
[6:36]him. So not only are we not forehands and two minds and two bodies doing all the culinary work,
[6:44]I, I want the direction. I'm the, you know, I'm the, I'm the peon here. And he just told me
[6:51]what he wanted, you know, over scratchy 15 years ago, scratchy cell phone. I didn't hear him.
[6:56]And I ended up, I said to myself, I gave myself a bit of a culinary meditation. And I said,
[7:01]you know, it's like the heart brooks play your game. You know, I just played my game. I said,
[7:06]do what you've been taught to do. You've been trained well, execute at that level. You know,
[7:10]he said, slice, you know, the case of zucchini. Well, what's that right? I got what thickness?
[7:15]Like, I don't know what's the thickness. So I, I knew what the end game was. I just used my
[7:19]common sense in my training. And he came in the next morning after asking me, can you find a loaf
[7:25]of brioche, like a pandemic of brioche? And I thought it's six in the morning. So wearing my
[7:31]chef's whites, I started banging on the door at pi-r, you know, right over right around the corner.
[7:36]And they're lifting at me, but I'm wearing the uniform. So I like cracked the door open. I said,
[7:40]I need a loaf of brioche, it's pending me right now. I'll give you any amount of money.
[7:45]You know, and I showed up and he was impressed that I scored this early in the morning. He opened
[7:49]up the fridge. And he said, oh my goodness. Like, I in 20 something years of working, I've never had
[7:53]anyone do exactly what I've asked. And I had met you before. And that started our culinary career.
[8:00]And then two days later, he said, do you want to make a taco on CNN? Because he was doing
[8:04]consulting for song airlines, which was a little offshoot of Delta. I don't know if you remember
[8:08]that. And he was doing cool food for that airline. And that began my culinary career. So I had
[8:12]my culinary food styling career. And I had never been trained in food styling. I taught myself how
[8:19]to do it. And I've taught other people since how to do it, who I have to say are far more talented
[8:23]out of than I am. I think because they have a good fortune of being trained by me and all that
[8:28]soft skill stuff and being blessed with their own exceptional hard skills. And it was a crazy journey.
[8:33]That's amazing. Crazy journey. It's so tell. So let's say I'm in the kitchen and I'm doing some
[8:39]culinary meditation. I make my kids scrambled eggs and sausage and try to get the lunch bags
[8:45]ready for camp. How can I make what can the way person like me do to make my foods look
[8:50]food styled by someone like you? It's a good question. You know, the thing about food stylists,
[8:56]and especially today, you know, when we were kids, everything was shot, you know, straight on.
[9:00]Now everything is thanks to Donna Hay in Australia. She was the first one a million years ago.
[9:04]And then Martha, we've done right? Done. It's amazing. So everything is, you know, bird's eye,
[9:09]right? Very, very cool. And everything is also now even not styled. A lot of food looks so
[9:15]scrumptious. They show the roasted butternut squash and brussel sprouts on the, you know, on the
[9:20]sheet pan with the drizzle oil. So I think at home with little kids where we shy away from,
[9:28]you know, anthropomorphisms with adults because it's a little corny. I think with children,
[9:34]that can be a tremendous amount of fun. I used to take a pancake and cut that circle in half and
[9:41]then kissed the two curved parts with a line of blueberries in the middle and it was a butterfly
[9:47]And so it's like no effort. I mean that, I mean, four seconds on your part because if you're
[9:52]making lunch at breakfast as I do also and you're in your pajamas and you have to get, I mean,
[9:56]the laundry list of agonies. Wait, that's good. I love it.
[10:00]the butterfly. The butterfly, another cute one just with the same circle shapes is you
[10:04]cut it in half and you can make a car so you can take banana slices for the wheel so it's
[10:08]just like one half foot so two cars little Volkswagen. Also you if you make pancakes big
[10:15]and small you can do Mickey Mouse for the ears or the silver dollar so just something
[10:19]like that. Scramble the eggs. Oftentimes with kids I always remind adults kids love just
[10:24]like we do cocktail party. Hello who doesn't love an order of if you could eat canna
[10:28]pay all day long I mean who wouldn't so I I would anyway. I think kids like that too
[10:33]so it's fun to make things finger sized so you know you can make scrambled eggs and sausage
[10:41]might be boring after a while with a fork and I if you know put it in a little wrap make
[10:44]a burrito out of it make a breakfast burrito or let them make a pizza out of it on a
[10:50]piece of toast you know words that have meaning to them and foods that they like if they
[10:54]participate and you can kind of turn it into that I find that kids are very happy another
[11:00]thing is simply just height to really style things to make things look really chicly
[11:05]style this creating height so if you get served a sandwich let's say with carrot sticks
[11:09]and potato chips or something yeah and I think of grapes and it's all flat on the plate
[11:14]yeah but remember you're not donna hay standing over the food right you're looking at
[11:19]straight on so creating height is nice if you shingle food if you take a sandwich and then
[11:25]layer it on top yeah in the other direction so it's kind of shingle like a tea that gives
[11:30]height and then you kind of pile up the carrot sticks tall and have the chips around it
[11:35]you create height it creates intrigue it makes it interesting kids tend to like that you know
[11:40]and you can even get a little cookie with kids if they like to cook with you you have you
[11:45]know girls and you're making meatloaf mashed potatoes like you can put it in a muffin
[11:48]tin and the mashed potatoes can be frosting and the peas and carrots can be on top
[11:52]and it can be I mean if that would make them happy you know why not you got to bake
[11:56]the meatloaf anyway there's lots of fun things you can do I think about pastry chefs
[12:01]and cake makers which I am not I'm a savory chef but they they build stuff and it's edible
[12:06]right so if you kind of just look at your food that way you can have fun with your kids
[12:11]and they can participate in that and that's guys the limit amazing my kids are actually
[12:16]having a little cooking lesson that a friend set up for them by somebody named chef
[12:19]namaste which is a combination of yoga and cooking so they alternate like the story
[12:24]of the I don't know sounds good to me or in the kitchen and enjoying food go for it that's
[12:30]right that's right so let's see your mozzabal and mistletoe party I want you to just
[12:37]tell people about this amazing party that you throw every year because it's like you're
[12:42]not just a chef you're an entertainer you're like the Martha Stewart of home events
[12:46]and mozzabal and mistletoe is just the the the bill and I'll standard of holiday party
[12:51]oh my goodness that's a compliment from a very very sophisticated entertainer as well
[12:57]oh my god please how do you throw tell us like some tips that make that party so great
[13:03]that people at home throwing parties might be able to anyway well that party is a funny
[13:08]party so mozzabal and mistletoe is clearly a nod to a combination of Jewish and gentile
[13:16]you know mix so we're Jewish but obviously we have a lot of gentile friends and it's the
[13:20]holiday season so we do this I don't actually serve mozzabal so the party right it was
[13:24]just alliteration and funny right so wouldn't it be nice if I did but I happily I take
[13:29]that off my list right someone said you should serve to expect it you right right you
[13:34]should serve mozzabal so this I said believe me I there's no room to serve anything
[13:37]else in this party so it started out as a dessert party and then I realized just because
[13:42]people come and go in the holiday season and they might have a dinner or they might be
[13:45]running to a dinner coming late early when we were very young in the city in our twenties
[13:49]right out of college the party is in its 20th year so I thought you know dessert is easy
[13:55]and then over time I realized what I can feed 60 people no problem dinner if I do it kind
[14:01]of buffet and homie so I started doing as you know chicken pot pies with trees and stars
[14:07]of David on the crust and huge amounts of mac and cheese and salad and all that I prepped
[14:12]for that party it takes me a solid week to do all of it I every single dessert so I guess
[14:16]what you like probably about that party is the dining table you meaning the the visual
[14:20]that you're alluding to with that no the actual me what I like on the dining room well
[14:26]the mac and cheese I like to but on the dining room table there are all these you know
[14:29]just tons of desserts whether they're bite size cookies you know pastries and then I do
[14:36]full cakes and I have you know my friend from childhood we have a lemie tart which is named
[14:41]after after her this banana caramel tart but the way you present it is so beautiful height
[14:48]height is one thing for the letters different letters label everything I do everything I get
[14:54]crafty I like my I like my craft paper and my markers and my ribbons and my do and I I believe
[15:02]so my big philosophy for entertaining in general and my philosophy for cooking in general I would
[15:08]say is and some of this is reflected in notes on cooking one of my books is that I'm getting
[15:14]there I'm not at all I'm getting there not at all not at all I just I believe that it should
[15:21]be joyful and it should be welcoming and we have a note in the book feed others as they wish
[15:28]to be fed so that is really to me you know we think of the golden rule and all of our behavior
[15:34]and I think the kitchen like any other great craft is a great food and fodder and metaphor for
[15:41]life so you know the golden rule is do unto others as we would have done unto ourselves so
[15:46]that's a great standard but in the kitchen and entertaining I think the standard is do unto others
[15:53]as they would wish to have done for themselves not the way you would wish it not really the
[15:57]platinum rule as it were as opposed to the golden rule and I think with mozzabal mistletoe as a
[16:03]for instance I my goal and I it pleases me to know that on some level I'm counting this because it
[16:09]really my only goal is I want people to feel fed in all the ways that one can be fed not
[16:16]just through food but to really have all of their senses delighted and to have a sense of warmth
[16:24]and love and connection because I think the world is highly under connected today we over communicate
[16:28]incessantly but we're actually way less connected than we used to be in my opinion so people
[16:33]say you've got someone at your house I had you know 15 people in my house yesterday I've got
[16:36]people coming to stay over in two days I had all of my sons childhood babysitters they're all
[16:42]these lovely Paraguay women I had them come up for a pool party on Saturday because he hadn't
[16:46]seen them in a couple years like I I just think you know connecting is wonderful foods one way to do
[16:52]it and then the entertaining outside of that is it is it you know sort of the finishing touch of the
[16:58]food and I just think when you think of others and you bring joy to it for yourself it translates
[17:06]and that can be different things for different people yeah I do it all from scratch and I actually
[17:10]turned to my close friend who you know the the namesake of the lemy tart and I said one year I
[17:16]was so tired I said but I could buy a couple gorgeous cakes you know lady yeah or something from
[17:20]graces and she looked at me and went no no you will all be disappointed and I thought are you
[17:25]kidding me everybody else could get away with putting it on a high platter and do the height and
[17:30]the decorating she said no so I thought okay so part of the joy the people are getting is from
[17:36]me personally so that actually refuels refuelled me and continues to refuel me and continuing to do
[17:45]the party and give the joy and do the and do that because you know you can to even a professional
[17:50]can tire out there there's nothing that means more to me than when someone cooks for me it's so
[17:55]personal and so like I am like kissing the feet of people who cook for me I remember when I just
[18:01]had my fourth baby and I had been making meal after me left I like nobody was really making
[18:06]stuff to make me happy right and my baby nurse on my birthday was like no no you sit and she made
[18:11]me blueberry pancakes which I don't even like and it was the nicest thing ever and I'm like
[18:17]eternally grateful I was like crying and now I'm so lucky Kyle is amazing factacular but you
[18:22]can like taste the love I don't know I just there's something you can taste the love it's very
[18:25]interesting that even you getting that example somebody made you blueberry pancakes up not something
[18:31]I would ever you know eat or light don't like that much but it it absolutely raises the game it's
[18:38]much like somebody who's physical attraction is if you just looked at them is at a certain level
[18:43]and then they start talking and it goes up or down because of how spectacular or horrendous they
[18:49]are and food is like that yeah so something can be quite delicious even though it doesn't really
[18:54]get you off otherwise because of what goes into it and if somebody you know we have a note in the
[19:01]book that says you know don't be grim food preparation should be you know joyful and so should you
[19:09]and it's it does it gets in the food it gets in the food and that's why you can have you know
[19:15]20 people make the same thing and follow the same recipe even use the same jug of oil and the same
[19:21]flat of eggs and all and it's you got 20 different things because you you're your stuff you
[19:26]yeah gets into it it's it's an unbelievable spectacular snowflake kind of phenomenon of being a
[19:34]cook or an artist or any kind of craftsman really so the books and now you've already given me two
[19:41]notes on cooking without me even having to ask you for them so notes on cooking notably has no
[19:47]recipes that's right for it's straight on wonderfully streamlined notes tips what are some of the
[19:55]most useful that you aside from the ones you've just mentioned so
[20:00]to the home cook.
[20:00]So I think, well, maybe not to the home cook.
[20:04]So who I know is.
[20:05]I mean, that's what's interesting about it.
[20:06]So like, it was endorsed by-
[20:07]What are you supposed to mean?
[20:08]Well, that's the thing.
[20:09]So for example, we get very specific in the book
[20:12]and then we get very global.
[20:14]I find the global ones incredibly seductive
[20:17]because, as you know, I'm kind of a permanent thinker, right?
[20:21]I'm always thinking about these things.
[20:23]So I love that.
[20:26]But there's a lot of specific stuff
[20:27]that's perfectly interesting
[20:29]and seems incredibly, you know, almost obvious in a way.
[20:34]For example, don't put woody herbs
[20:38]in at the end of the cooking process.
[20:40]You put them in at the beginning
[20:41]and don't put leafy herbs in generally
[20:42]at the beginning.
[20:43]You put them in at the end.
[20:44]Of course, there's exceptions to that.
[20:45]But what does that mean?
[20:46]You don't finish a dish with chopped rosemary, right?
[20:48]But if you're novice cook, you might not realize that.
[20:51]Of course you don't.
[20:52]Of course you don't.
[20:53]Of course you don't.
[20:53]Of course you don't.
[20:54]And then there's other things like always flag a hot pan.
[20:58]Like I don't know how many home cooks have burned themselves
[21:00]because they take out the cookie sheet
[21:01]and they just leave it there
[21:02]and they go to touch it 10 minutes later and it's hot.
[21:05]In a professional kitchen, you always put a rag over that,
[21:08]which is called flagging it.
[21:10]You know, those are very specific little things.
[21:12]But then there are these big global things
[21:14]that I think are, you know, really important.
[21:18]And for me, one of the biggest things is for people
[21:21]to, you know, really get in their sinesthetic space if they can.
[21:26]And we have a note that says, touch the sounds,
[21:29]feel the flavors, taste the smells, you know.
[21:31]And that means that you have to crosswire your sensory
[21:35]experience when you're cooking.
[21:36]That's a big thing.
[21:37]And if you're a novice cook or an uncomfortable cook,
[21:41]you know, not a confident cook, that can be scary.
[21:46]But I remind people, you know, you like to eat,
[21:49]you're like 90% away there, right?
[21:52]Like you like to eat, you got a lot of skills to eat.
[21:56]To potentially be a cook.
[21:58]I haven't met, I have met people who don't much care
[22:00]for eating.
[22:01]They also, you know, don't like puppy dogs and sex or something.
[22:05]It's like a strange, you know, not another type of.
[22:07]So I guess very, but there are people who, you know,
[22:10]eat to, I know, we haven't crossed their path.
[22:12]But some people who, so most people do enjoy eating on some level.
[22:15]But a lot of people are not confident
[22:18]about their ability to just go do it.
[22:23]And I think, you know, if they remind themselves,
[22:26]but I know what I like, I know flavors.
[22:29]And I can, you know, I can read.
[22:32]And I also have common sense.
[22:34]It's a little bit like using ways or GPS.
[22:37]You know, we, well, okay, it says to go left,
[22:40]but am I really getting on the Brooklyn Boulevard?
[22:42]I thought I was going to Long Island.
[22:43]Like we're supposed to veer all the way left.
[22:45]Use your brain, you don't need to rely on that thing.
[22:49]And people do that with recipes.
[22:50]People need to remember that not everybody
[22:52]is a brilliant recipe writer.
[22:53]A recipe, a big piece of advice we have in the book is a recipe.
[22:58]Is somebody's best effort, hopefully best effort
[23:03]at the highest standard, to tell us what they did
[23:08]and to tell a story and to give us instructions.
[23:11]But not, we've all, you know, put furniture together
[23:14]for my kia or read an instruction
[23:16]on how to fix some glitch in our car.
[23:19]And, you know, not everybody's equally skilled
[23:21]at writing instructions.
[23:22]Not everybody's equally gifted storyteller.
[23:24]Lots of people tell me stories.
[23:25]I want to fall asleep, you know, I tend to be okay storyteller.
[23:29]I know that.
[23:29]So I think that's something people need to really remember
[23:35]that when they read a recipe, if it says saute the onions
[23:38]for 15 minutes or until golden brown.
[23:41]And you've been sweating them for 20 minutes
[23:43]and they're just starting to caramelize
[23:44]and they're not golden brown.
[23:46]We target the result more than the instructions.
[23:49]That's a huge one for home cooks who are nervous
[23:51]and they're working from a recipe instead of just from,
[23:54]you know, on the fly.
[23:55]So notes on cooking is just, if you're looking at it
[23:58]on the shelf has this amazing, like, turquoise-y border
[24:02]and great cover and it would be, I think,
[24:06]a perfect gift, especially on these summer, summer barbecues
[24:09]and summer parties called notes on cooking,
[24:12]learned brown castellas.
[24:13]So I don't know, just saying this would be a gift.
[24:15]And then your next book, The Confident Cook,
[24:18]has a very different look and feel,
[24:20]more of a Betty Crocker 1950s manual.
[24:24]But just as useful as that was,
[24:26]I still referred it the one my mother has
[24:28]when she was a kid with the binding and I didn't know.
[24:31]So this was published, one difference,
[24:34]notes on cooking self-publish,
[24:35]the confident cook published by Adam's Publishing.
[24:38]Tell me a little bit about the confident cook
[24:39]and then the difference between how you publish
[24:42]both these, both these tomes.
[24:43]Yeah, they happened at the same time,
[24:45]which was, you know, when it rains, it pours,
[24:47]good and bad, this was good.
[24:49]The confident cook is the subtitle,
[24:52]which I also didn't write.
[24:53]I didn't do the cover design
[24:54]and I didn't do the subtitle,
[24:55]but the subtitle is Essential Tools, Techniques,
[24:57]and Recipes for the modern at home cook.
[25:00]That's exactly what's in it.
[25:01]So most interesting part of the book, in my opinion,
[25:03]is the first third of it where we talk about
[25:07]these essential tools and there's a little essay
[25:10]as it were on each piece of equipment.
[25:12]So how do I pick a wooden spoon?
[25:15]I mean, how odd, whoever thought,
[25:16]how do I pick a wooden spoon?
[25:17]You just pick one, but actually, in four or five paragraphs,
[25:20]I outline how you might do that, you know?
[25:22]How do I pick, perhaps more importantly, a saute pan?
[25:26]What pan's do I actually need?
[25:27]What, you know, we have a section of the book
[25:29]that makes me smile called utterly irrelevant
[25:31]equipment miscellaneous, which has amongst other things,
[25:36]you know, a tomato slicer and, you know,
[25:40]an avocado scoop and things like that.
[25:42]So that book is really targeted for beginner cooks,
[25:48]whereas notes on cooking is evergreen for everybody.
[25:50]A seasoned cook's find was dominant,
[25:52]new cooks find, very useful information in it.
[25:55]Company cook is definitely more of like a starter book.
[25:59]And that respect.
[26:00]Get better like recent grads and people say how.
[26:03]And it was, it was a traditional publishing deal.
[26:06]I had an agent who was a friend of my husband's
[26:08]from childhood, who's a lovely and very bright lady.
[26:11]And this was the deal she, you know, suggested
[26:17]that I take.
[26:18]And it was really interesting because I,
[26:21]at the same time, was working on,
[26:24]while I had been pitching this way
[26:25]before I started notes on cooking,
[26:27]I was writing notes on cooking
[26:29]with my partner Russell Raj, who published the book
[26:32]because he had had notes on directing,
[26:34]which was a runaway hit and still a backless title today.
[26:41]And that was such a different experience
[26:44]because we were on our own timeframe.
[26:47]We could have our own standard of excellence.
[26:50]It didn't have to be a certain number of words, you know,
[26:52]this is you have to submit 70,000 words.
[26:54]Well, I've written 58,000.
[26:55]Okay, so we'll just write more recipes, you know,
[26:57]that kind of thing.
[26:59]The cover art was painstakingly, you know,
[27:04]dealt with and sweat every detail.
[27:06]The curning of every letter, literally,
[27:08]I mean, the week of talking about the curning
[27:10]of the O's next to the K and the C cooking.
[27:14]And, you know, it was a finalist for Ben Franklin Awards.
[27:17]So why?
[27:18]Because of that, right?
[27:20]This, I remember the cover art for the company Cook,
[27:23]the original mock-up had a coffee mug and garden shears on it.
[27:27]Yeah, you laugh because it's preposterous,
[27:29]but imagine my email at my phone call.
[27:32]I don't want to know.
[27:33]I don't want to know.
[27:33]No one wants my rap.
[27:34]I don't want to know.
[27:35]Or how about the fact that in the bio
[27:37]in the back of the book, it says Laura Bron costello.
[27:39]I can assure you, I did not submit my bio
[27:42]misspelling my own name.
[27:44]So those are the kinds of things that not to impune
[27:47]all traditional publishing deals
[27:49]by any stretch of the imagination.
[27:50]This particular experience was incredibly different
[27:53]from the self-published.
[27:54]And the children's book was self-published also.
[27:59]So two of my three, which are the two most beautiful
[28:03]and really exactly what they were intended to be.
[28:05]And I remember I showed this mock-up to Tyler Barnes
[28:08]with the view one day.
[28:09]And I was like, what are you thinking this?
[28:11]Knowing that he could tell that I didn't much care for it.
[28:14]It wasn't me.
[28:15]And he said to me, he goes, do they even know you?
[28:19]Have they met you?
[28:19]Like, what is that?
[28:20]So I was able to knock off a garden shears
[28:23]and the coffee mug, neither of which, by the way,
[28:24]for listeners out there, are essential tools
[28:27]for the kitchen.
[28:28]A coffee mug might be an essential pre-game tool,
[28:31]but it is not an essential cooking tool.
[28:33]I mean, just my book.
[28:34]So it's very, very different.
[28:35]And it taught me a lot about the process
[28:38]and about how I might proceed in the future.
[28:41]It also, I have an adage professionally
[28:43]in my food styling career, which is say yes to anything.
[28:48]Just say yes.
[28:49]Somebody asked to do something, say yes.
[28:52]I wish if I could tell my younger self
[28:54]about this particular book deal, I would have said no.
[28:56]And waited for a book deal that I thought was more in line
[29:01]with what I thought I should have in terms of the content
[29:06]of the book.
[29:08]So it looked kind of like how it feels.
[29:10]Because right now, so why not go for that now?
[29:13]I suppose I could.
[29:14]I think it's time.
[29:15]It's time, it's time, it's time.
[29:18]And then the big head scratcher is, do I do it?
[29:22]The traditional route or the self-publishing route.
[29:24]And that's a big head scratcher.
[29:25]And now in today's space, of course, as you will know,
[29:29]some things really should be books.
[29:31]And some things really shouldn't be books.
[29:32]Some things should be blocks.
[29:34]In today's world, the way people digest information.
[29:38]A lot of people have told me, oh, I'm going to write this book.
[29:40]And I think there's a reason the real housewives
[29:44]of wherever all have New York Times by sellers.
[29:46]It's not because they're Montesquieu and waiting.
[29:48]I mean, it's just because they have this presence.
[29:51]People will buy it.
[29:53]Everything has a more ephemeral.
[29:56]And if you don't have that presence,
[29:58]but you have great ideas, you might be better.
[30:00]suited to a blog, it might not, you know, not,
[30:02]not every story needs to be told
[30:04]in discursive format, some things should,
[30:07]you know, be more fleeting or be queued up in a blog.
[30:10]And so it's, I grapple with that.
[30:15]It was, it was interesting.
[30:17]I do believe though in general in my culinary career
[30:19]saying yes to almost everything led me
[30:21]to every cool experience that I have had
[30:24]and something that I know I've missed.
[30:26]So I wouldn't have had my show if I hadn't, you know,
[30:29]said yes to styling for Gail Simmons, you know,
[30:31]right after my show.
[30:32]Tell us my bag of show.
[30:32]Oh, the show, we had a show called Pantry Challenge
[30:35]on AOL, it was very cool.
[30:37]I went into people's homes and helped them.
[30:40]They would, they were challenged
[30:42]with what was in their pantry.
[30:43]What do I do with Dejan Mustard?
[30:45]I've been sitting here, I bought it for one recipe a year ago.
[30:48]What do I do with it?
[30:48]You know, and then we come up with the recipe to help them
[30:50]or my kid never eats vegetables.
[30:52]He's 13, he's literally never had a vegetable.
[30:55]And I guarantee you won't be able to help me
[30:57]but can you try and then helping?
[30:59]And then on camera, on force,
[31:01]the kid takes three servings of what I've made.
[31:04]That was really fun.
[31:05]And that was sponsored by Craft.
[31:07]And if I hadn't, you know, been doing a food styling gig
[31:10]for my friend and colleague Gail Simmons,
[31:11]it wouldn't have happened.
[31:13]And she called me in a time that was very difficult.
[31:15]My grandfather had just died, I was exhausted.
[31:17]My husband was practically living in Sweden,
[31:19]trying to save Saab for the third time, you know,
[31:23]as a banker.
[31:24]And I just thought, and they had a young, young kid.
[31:27]I thought, how can I do this?
[31:29]But you know what?
[31:30]Gail's really cool.
[31:31]I'd love to do something for her.
[31:32]I said, work with her before on another show.
[31:34]And I said, yeah, I should just do it.
[31:36]And the producers of that show were like,
[31:37]you should have your own show.
[31:38]And I think, thank you.
[31:40]I think so, too, right?
[31:41]Who doesn't want to have one?
[31:43]So we did it.
[31:44]And so that way of working in the culinary world for me
[31:49]has been, it was just amazing.
[31:50]I got to do so many cool things.
[31:53]But I would have said, I would have not done that particular
[31:56]or a competent cookbook deal.
[31:57]I would have done that a little differently.
[31:58]I would have said yes later.
[32:01]That's my one lesson, I think, learned.
[32:03]But that's okay, too.
[32:05]So no pressure with this question.
[32:07]But you are so immensely talented.
[32:09]As you will know, I'm sure.
[32:11]You're a writer, a chef.
[32:13]You're amazing on camera.
[32:15]You have like a photographic memory for everything.
[32:17]Which I should have mentioned before.
[32:18]You can remember every feed styling detail.
[32:20]You're like incredible.
[32:22]What you have to do something with this talent
[32:24]aside from the parties and delay your friends.
[32:27]You don't have to.
[32:28]I shouldn't say that.
[32:29]That's obviously the greatest gift
[32:30]you can give any family, remember, and whatever.
[32:33]But just selfishly, how are you going to spread this around?
[32:36]I have, I do have a dream.
[32:40]I had a dream.
[32:41]And I actually had, I was sort of 80% baked
[32:45]when I was pregnant with my second to have a show.
[32:48]Which now, again, with each passing year,
[32:51]it's sort of astronomical change.
[32:53]So now that might take the format of,
[32:57]we have the big screen and the small screen.
[32:59]Now it's a really small screen in the pocket screen.
[33:01]So that could be an online type of thing.
[33:05]But I have been talking to some friends
[33:08]and some people about, should I do a show?
[33:12]And I know you're nodding.
[33:13]And yes, do it.
[33:14]I probably really, really should.
[33:18]I was going to do it about six years ago.
[33:23]And logistically and interpersonally with my colleagues
[33:28]at the time, things fell apart very sadly
[33:30]and very surprisingly to me and unexpectedly to me.
[33:34]But they did and it was probably meant to be
[33:36]that they did and I gave birth to William
[33:38]and it all was good.
[33:39]And I didn't care for a while.
[33:41]Well, at first I cared a lot.
[33:43]People would say, how are you?
[33:44]What are you up to?
[33:45]And I couldn't answer the question in under three minutes.
[33:47]It was awful.
[33:48]Who wants to talk to somebody in a cocktail party
[33:50]who asked to give their little sob story
[33:52]300 seconds or less, it was terrible.
[33:55]And then by the time my younger son was two, three years old,
[34:01]what are you up to?
[34:02]Absolutely nothing, I would say.
[34:04]And I would say that perfectly comfortably,
[34:08]I think because it's sort of given up the dream.
[34:13]And it's okay.
[34:14]Like I had a really good run.
[34:15]I ran from one in a million to one in 10,000
[34:19]to one in 1,000 and then super close to one in 100.
[34:21]I mean, I had a deal like go make your show.
[34:23]We're going to syndicate it across.
[34:25]We're going to give you a national TV show.
[34:27]And get like losing that was hard
[34:32]or losing it in that moment I should say was hard.
[34:35]And then I've felt over the years, well, I'm old.
[34:37]I'm 41 and who cares and nobody wants to see what I have
[34:43]to do or hear what I have to say.
[34:44]But then people are constantly telling me
[34:47]that that's what they want to do.
[34:48]They want to sit at my island and watch me cook and talk to me.
[34:51]So maybe people should sit at my island
[34:53]and watch me cook and talk to me.
[34:56]And how I execute that, I have to figure out.
[34:58]But I am ready to delight in that dream again.
[35:02]Now that I've gotten the kids past a certain point
[35:05]on the highway of child rearing, it's possible.
[35:09]Because I hear another philosophy of mine,
[35:11]which is stemmed at all of my books,
[35:13]is anything worth doing is worth doing well.
[35:17]And the opening quote to notes on cooking
[35:21]is from Aristotle, which is, I'm thumbing through it
[35:25]so I don't do any disservice to Aristotle.
[35:27]It's excellence is not an act, it's what we do.
[35:32]What we are, what we repeatedly do.
[35:36]Excellence then is not an act, but a habit.
[35:38]That's Aristotle.
[35:39]And I totally believe that.
[35:40]So instead of doing everything badly
[35:42]or in a state of mediocrity, which is what can happen,
[35:46]is you know, when you have young kids,
[35:48]and that's the priority, right?
[35:49]So instead of doing everything
[35:51]a kind of a b or a b plus, which is not bad,
[35:53]or potentially getting into sea level,
[35:56]I just rather do one thing, at least aiming for the a.
[35:59]I falter all the time, but I know what my beacon is.
[36:02]I know what my beacon of excellence is.
[36:03]And there's a period of time in child rearing
[36:06]where, depending on what your own personal standard
[36:09]and that is a highly personal thing,
[36:11]I don't preach what it should be, the form it takes,
[36:14]but whatever it is for you.
[36:18]And for me, I knew what that was.
[36:19]It was hard to do it all at once.
[36:22]Now I could see making that work again
[36:25]in a way that it was possible.
[36:26]And I had only Jonathan, or when I before Jonathan,
[36:29]I worked like a dog.
[36:29]I mean, I could work seven days a week.
[36:31]It's fine with me, because if we do now, right?
[36:34]You know, it's everything we do.
[36:34]We do now.
[36:35]We're seven years a week now.
[36:36]It's never, no, even days off, our days off.
[36:39]Right?
[36:40]Let's do good birth here.
[36:41]You're always on.
[36:42]So I think that I just have to figure out the how, the how.
[36:47]But I didn't finally read it again.
[36:51]It was funny, I never thought that I would not care.
[36:53]And there was a period of time where I think,
[36:55]as almost a self defense, like a protection mechanism,
[36:59]I had to say, you know what?
[37:00]I had that dream.
[37:01]I got really close.
[37:02]I've accomplished something.
[37:04]You know, and I worked with some of the best
[37:08]in the brightest.
[37:09]I mean, the food styling stuff is just so fun.
[37:11]People say, oh, you should do a tell-all with all the celebrities
[37:13]you've worked for.
[37:14]I said, sure, that's a great way to have no friends.
[37:17]That's a great way never to work again.
[37:19]I mean, I have great stories.
[37:22]Some of which are completely appropriate to share
[37:23]with the world.
[37:24]Others are a little disparaging of other people.
[37:26]But I'll just keep those close to the best.
[37:31]But I've thought about even memoir,
[37:35]because as you know, I come from kind of a crazy family.
[37:37]And I have some crazy family stories
[37:39]that could weave their way in and around food or not.
[37:44]And I've thought about that, because I do love writing.
[37:46]I think that's why I write so many emails at great length,
[37:48]as you know, I'm a big email writer when the time calls,
[37:51]because that's about all the time I have for writing.
[37:54]And it's funny, I realize that part of that
[37:56]is my way of connecting not through food,
[37:58]but through writing, because I haven't been able to sit down.
[38:01]And I have two books written about two chapters
[38:05]of these two books written.
[38:08]And I revisit them and write a little more from time to time,
[38:10]but not as much as I should.
[38:12]So it's all percolating around.
[38:14]Kids are getting older.
[38:15]I have a middle schooler on the rise now, first grader on the rise.
[38:18]So I think it's possible.
[38:21]But in the meantime, I have to make glimpses before camp,
[38:25]because the older one asked me for, please, for Blintz's mom.
[38:28]I'm thirsty for breakfast.
[38:29]Because I feel lucky as kids.
[38:31]No kidding.
[38:31]You know what, before I came here, I had hot cinnamon rolls.
[38:35]I made yeast dough last night overnight cinnamon rolls
[38:37]for his school breakfast.
[38:39]They asked me to make cinnamon rolls.
[38:41]So I can't get out of that kitchen, if I don't tell my kids,
[38:44]whose treat is like when I put the pancake
[38:47]mix into the aloft waffle maker in the mornings,
[38:49]this is the big treat.
[38:50]That is a big treat.
[38:51]But that's the other thing, really.
[38:53]People should not, there is a range.
[38:55]Look, when I get dressed and go out to a party
[38:58]and I do my hair and put on a little makeup and put heels,
[39:00]I mean, that's not going to look like she's a bunch.
[39:02]And it's not going to happen.
[39:03]I don't have the bod, I don't have the face.
[39:05]I don't have the budget.
[39:05]I don't have the free clothes.
[39:07]I don't have any of them.
[39:08]So I shouldn't feel that I don't look my best
[39:12]or didn't achieve some kind of like, you look nice today
[39:16]for you.
[39:17]I mean, yeah, I don't make this quick pancakes
[39:20]as a friend since I bet you don't either.
[39:22]I bet you have bobs or something really good and healthy
[39:25]or whatever the cool organic thing is of the moment.
[39:28]So, but that's the thing.
[39:29]Wherever you are in the spectrum,
[39:30]if you give your kids, let's see if your kids pop charts
[39:33]for breakfast, which to me, I go on a ski trip
[39:36]and you see, Bobby, Timmy, Tommy, take a pop chart
[39:39]and like you're about to unleash them into the wild
[39:42]for eight hours, like sled dogs,
[39:44]burning 3,000 calories, unlegalized crack
[39:47]in the form of like a biscuit and the frosting on it.
[39:49]How can you not give them like a hardboiled egg?
[39:53]Like why you hit them with a hardboiled egg?
[39:55]What are you Timmy, Tommy and Petey?
[39:57]You're going to be cracked out at 12 noon.
[39:59]I hope they're getting...
[40:00]Chili for lunch up there on the mountain.
[40:01]But so if that's your baseline,
[40:04]which it isn't yours and it isn't mine.
[40:07]Okay, why don't you upgrade the Toaster Shirdle
[40:11]to a pre-made, hard boiled egg from the grocery store
[40:14]and even an eggo waffle, okay?
[40:17]And then if you're an eggo waffle gal,
[40:19]why don't you get vans, or whatever, the lovely,
[40:22]and if you're like your vans,
[40:24]you can do it, mix that Bob's mill mix.
[40:27]So wherever you are in the spectrum,
[40:29]just up your game one notch.
[40:31]And that's, there's a difference between food prep
[40:36]and actual cooking, right?
[40:37]Cooking is commanding heat moving moisture.
[40:39]If you're just like assembling stuff,
[40:42]you're not really cooking.
[40:44]So having on his conversation with yourself about that.
[40:48]My book will be notes on assembling.
[40:49]No, it's on assembling.
[40:51]You know who's great at notes on assembling
[40:52]is, you know, Sandra Lee, right?
[40:56]She has her philosophy of 70%, you know,
[41:00]and 30%, and that's okay too, you know.
[41:02]It's not my thing, but it's all valid
[41:06]as long as you bring joy to it and love to it.
[41:10]And you find purpose in it,
[41:13]and you connect with people through it.
[41:14]Food is, you know, good stuff.
[41:18]And we need it, thank goodness, we need it.
[41:20]Amazing, Lauren, thank you so much for coming online.
[41:23]It's been a time to read books, thank you.
[41:25]And again, her books are notes on cooking
[41:27]and the confident cook and each of your breakfast
[41:29]or else, Lauren, Brown Costello,
[41:31]pick them up as gifts or just to read yourself.
[41:34]Thanks.
[41:35]This episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books
[41:37]has been brought to you by Bobbo Botanicals,
[41:39]B-A-B-O Botanicals.
[41:41]Thanks for listening.
[41:42]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books